The Gall of Rall
Generally speaking, I love Ted Rall. Of course, I’m a whacko LLL by the standards of most, but regardless, he’s usually spot on in his political commentary as far as I’m concerned. However his most recent cartoon is just a tad misleading, if not wholly ignorant of history and the culture of shiadhis in the Middle East. It’s disappointing, really. Anti-Israelism is so trendy, people’ll take a jab at the state without even knowing what the hell they’re talking about.
You love Ted Rall. The fellow who says that Americans and Iraqis who fight Saddam deserve to die for being traitors…..
The sickness spreads….
(When are you going to realize where your movement stands in regard to Jews. Just how long can you breathe with your head down that ostrich hole?)
“The fellow who says that Americans and Iraqis who fight Saddam deserve to die for being traitors.”
prove it.
“When are you going to realize where your movement stands in regard to Jews.”
my “movement” stands on the side of justice and equality for all peoples. anyone who diverges from that path is clearly not part of “my” movement.
Ted Rall – Published August 27. Title: “Iraq resisters are patriots”
“On July 5 a bomb killed seven recruits for a U.S.-trained Iraqi police force in Ramadi. U.S. occupation administrator Paul Bremer deplored the murder of “innocent Iraqis.†Cops who work for a foreign army of occupation are not innocent. They are collaborators. Traitors. They had it coming.”
The Left does not stand for peace and justice. It stands for the death of Jews and the western world. I wonder why there were only human shield for Saddam and not for Israelis in cafes? I wonder why all the Left’s rallies feature people who equate Israel to nazis, but can find no heart to denounce Saddam, Castro, Mugabe, etc… The Left employs an incredible double standard with Jews so that their anti-semitism is palely disguised. It only works on fools.
On July 5 a bomb killed seven recruits for a U.S.-trained Iraqi police force in Ramadi. U.S. occupation administrator Paul Bremer deplored the murder of “innocent Iraqis.†Cops who work for a foreign army of occupation are not innocent. They are collaborators. Traitors. They had it coming.
I’m sorry, but that’s a factually accurate statement. If you aid a party that is invading your country, regardless of whether your nation’s regime is corrupt or not, for all intents and purposes, you are a traitor. Conversely, resisting invasion forces is patriotic. That’s not a capitulation to Saddam’s regime–that’s a statement of factual accuracy. American revolutionaries in the 13 colonies were considered traitors as well. They were defying the British government and inviting the wrath of Britain upon colonial Americans. French revolutionaries were tried for treason by the French monarchy as well.
Likewise, there was no popular Iraqi support for a US invasion of Iraq. The majority of Iraqi citizens were opposed to such action. Therefore, anyone who wilfully aids the US in its invasion or post-war occupation, are in fact traitors.
Until a new Iraqi constitution is ratified and adopted, the Baathists will continue to be patriots and their opponents traitors.
In America today, right-wingers consistently accuse left-liberals of being unpatriotic traitors. Ann Coulter even called her most recently published reproach of American liberals “Treason.” The left responds saying that it is even more unpatriotic to inhibit free speech and the scrutiny of seemingly unjust government policies, such as the tactically-named PATRIOT Act. Those politicians who had the nerve to question post 9/11 governmental policies have been labeled unpatriotic traitors as well.
The determination of right and wrong in this situation is not a matter of actualities, but rather ideologies. In the eyes of a Baathist patriot, yes, US collaborators are traitors. They did have it coming.
The Left does not stand for peace and justice. It stands for the death of Jews and the western world. I wonder why there were only human shield for Saddam and not for Israelis in cafes? I wonder why all the Left’s rallies feature people who equate Israel to nazis, but can find no heart to denounce Saddam, Castro, Mugabe, etc… The Left employs an incredible double standard with Jews so that their anti-semitism is palely disguised. It only works on fools.
This is nonsense. The left doesn’t stand for the death of Jews, it stands for the equality of all peoples. There were no human shields for Saddam, they were for Iraqi civillians. Once in-country, Saddam restricted their access solely to strategic military sites, so most of them came home. Whoever stayed, fuck all, they don’t represent every single LLL just because they may identify with leftist positions. That’s horseshit. That’s like saying every Jew is a fascist because Jabotinsky and the Revisionists were. Israel is equated with Nazi Germany because Israel is enacted policies of ethnic cleansing, which is fact that is difficult to dispute. I think it’s an erroneous comparison and I chastize those who I see drawing such comparisons, but I understand where they come from. As for Castro and Mugabe, here’s the poster I carried at the March 10 anti-war march in NYC. We got yelled at a lot about Castro, so after about an hour of being harangued by Socialists, we tore his picture off. But the message still stands.
As for your double standard, I don’t know what you’re talking about, suffice to say, Palestinian terrorists are regarded as just militants because they are living under military occupation, repression, and are witnessing the wholesale theft of a country that was factually theirs for at least two hundred years before the Zionists showed up.
The reason why Israel receives the most attention from the left currently is the excessive financial support the country receives from the US, the amount of media play the region receives (when was the last time you heard anything about Zaire on the news?!), and the foulness of the crimes it commits against Palestinians. There are plenty of activists that are out there focusing on other issues, however.
You will find it difficult, I assure you, to find one leftist who believes that the murder of Israeli civillians is just or fair, or acceptable. Many, however, do find it understandable, as do I. You can’t feed people a shit sandwich and expect them to eat it with a smile on their face.
1. You prove that you are as sick as Rall. Would you have the same rationale if the article described the murder of American soldiers in Germany and said that “they had it coming because they are traitors”. You are one sick puppy. Problem is I caught you with your pants down and now, as always, instead of decrying the excesses of your compatriots you join them. I wonder if there is any lower that the Left can sink.
2. You dont bother to explain how your ‘blame the victim’ rationale is any more odious when you say it than when AISH does. You also spout more lies – exhibit A: “a country that was factually theirs for at least two hundred years before the Zionists showed up” – In fact there NEVER was a Palestinian state. EVER. Moreover, your whitewashing of the double standard is despicable and foolish. Does your rationale explain why the Magen David Adom is kept out of the Red Cross? Does it explain why the UN (big hero of the Left) condemns Israel more than any other country? Does it explains why the leftist media continues to portray Jenin as a ‘massacre’ when it has been proven not to be? Does it explain why people put pictures of Sharon on posters next to other leaders who INTENTIONALLY kill innocents? Does it explain why the Left increasingly supports the notion that Israel is illegitimate from the get-go? Does it explain why people blame “Jewish neo-cons” for US policy? Does it explain why some people on the left blame the Mossad for 9/11? Does it explain why Leftists continue to ignore Palestinian media incitement, erasure of Israel from all maps in Palestinian textbooks, and the fact that Bill Clinton acknowledged that the Palestinians rejected a real and legitimate offer at Camp David? Does it explain why “peace” protestors are ALWAYS protesting the nations and forces which oppose terror, Islamic fascism, and anti-semitism – but never the reverse? Does it explain why Leftists are more concerned with the (often imagined) sins of Jews while ignoring and even aiding the crimes of terrorists (ISM)? I wonder how long you will continue to ignore the rising Anti-semitism of the Left and their allies worldwide. Other liberals are noticing (Phyllis Chesler) but you wish to whistle past the graveyard because it allows you to fulfill your youthful fantasies. You claim that it would be hard to find ONE Leftist who believes that “the murder of Israeli civillians is just or fair, or acceptable” – Are you serious? Here’s a tip. Go to Indymedia and type in “Israel” or “palestine” or “zionazi”… How about the wonderful pronouncement of the UN Human rights commission which openly stated in a resolution opposing Israel endorsing the “legitimacy of the struggle of peoples… by all available means, including armed struggle.”
It really must be fun to live in a cave.
I think your placement of Ariel Sharon next to Osama Bin Laden really says all there is to say about the Left. No comment is necessary.
1. You prove that you are as sick as Rall. Would you have the same rationale if the article described the murder of American soldiers in Germany and said that “they had it coming because they are traitors”. You are one sick puppy. Problem is I caught you with your pants down and now, as always, instead of decrying the excesses of your compatriots you join them. I wonder if there is any lower that the Left can sink.
Ah yes, by saying that in the eyes of a Baathist loyal, an Iraqi who aids the US in its invasion or occupation of Iraq is a traitor, I am a sicko who has sunk to the lowest depths. I’m mentally disturbed for pointing out the obvious. That’s great.
2. You dont bother to explain how your ‘blame the victim’ rationale is any more odious when you say it than when AISH does.
Aish blames secular Jews for antisemitism. I don’t blame Jews at all; but I insist that they accept responsibility for their contribution to the problem.
You also spout more lies – exhibit A: “a country that was factually theirs for at least two hundred years before the Zionists showed up” – In fact there NEVER was a Palestinian state. EVER.
Nope. Just a British territory called Palestine, where 800,000 Arab natives lived.
Moreover, your whitewashing of the double standard is despicable and foolish. Does your rationale explain why the Magen David Adom is kept out of the Red Cross? Does it explain why the UN (big hero of the Left) condemns Israel more than any other country?
Because the whole world hates us and everyone wants us to die? And you call me a sicko? The predominance of Arabs in both the Red Cross and the UN prompt hostile attitudes towards Israel. I don’t think it’s right. It is what it is. You couldn’t get into a country club in this country 50 years ago.
Does it explains why the leftist media continues to portray Jenin as a ‘massacre’ when it has been proven not to be?
The Jenin Massacre has not been proven not to be. While 500 people were not killed, 60 dead civillians still makes for a massacre. When soldiers tell the newspapers they were gleefully running people over and flatenning their houses with bulldozers you can not consider it anything less than a massacre.
Does it explain why people put pictures of Sharon on posters next to other leaders who INTENTIONALLY kill innocents?
I’m sorry, Beirut, what?! Refugee camp incursions, what?! How can you turn such a blind eye?
Does it explain why the Left increasingly supports the notion that Israel is illegitimate from the get-go?
Who is this Left you speak of? As though they have one unified voice. Their are a varying array of opinions on this subject. The most controversial ones are just the ones that get the most attention.
Does it explain why people blame “Jewish neo-cons” for US policy?
Jewish neocons are responsible for US policy. Unless you think Perle & Wolfowitz are just figments of our imagination. They’re also responsible for Israeli policy. That doesn’t make it a Jewish conspiracy, however, just the fulfillment of the interests of a few idealogues.
Does it explain why some people on the left blame the Mossad for 9/11?
Well, can you explain a few things for me perhaps, cuz I’m a little murky on them.
1. Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001. 2. The Israeli firm Comverse provides wiretapping/eavesdropping to US Law Enforcement. Comverse owns Odigo. On the morning of Sept. 11, Odigo employees at the World Trade Center were instructed to evacuate the building prior to the attacks. 3. Several armed Israelis were arrested (including an IDF officer and a Mossad agent) infiltrating the Mexican congress.
Try explaining what’s going on there.
Does it explain why Leftists continue to ignore Palestinian media incitement, erasure of Israel from all maps in Palestinian textbooks, and the fact that Bill Clinton acknowledged that the Palestinians rejected a real and legitimate offer at Camp David?
The real and legitimate offer you speak off was the shit end of a stick. And Leftists don’t ignore these things at all. They just considering the sociological reasoning behind them, which you don’t even stop to consider.
Does it explain why “peace” protestors are ALWAYS protesting the nations and forces which oppose terror, Islamic fascism, and anti-semitism – but never the reverse?
ALWAYS? HAH. These were the first anti-war protests of any consequence since Viet Nam. And this is a horseshit assertion too. Protesting the US invasion of Iraq was not because the Left favors Islamic Fascism; it’s because we oppose unnecessary military action, especially against countries who don’t even have the means to defend themselves from an attack. Wasn’t it enough that we starved 1,000,000 Iraqi babies with sanctions; we have to drop bombs on them now too?
Demonstrators marched up and down these United States, and all across Europe, in 1933, protesting the Nazi regime. They organized an economic boycott that would’ve destroyed the Nazis for good. But you know who tried to stop them? Who told them to stop “agitating” or they’d “make it worse”? Establishment Jewry. The American Jewish Congress, the American Jewish Committee, what would become the World Jewish Congress, and most notably, the German and British Zionists, who were trying to protect their asset transfer agreement with the Germans.
Who shot Chaim Arlosoroff who was negotiating a binational state and a peace agreement with the Palestinian leadersip in 1933? Revisionist Zionists.
You hold zero accountability.
Does it explain why Leftists are more concerned with the (often imagined) sins of Jews while ignoring and even aiding the crimes of terrorists (ISM)? I wonder how long you will continue to ignore the rising Anti-semitism of the Left and their allies worldwide. Other liberals are noticing (Phyllis Chesler) but you wish to whistle past the graveyard because it allows you to fulfill your youthful fantasies. You claim that it would be hard to find ONE Leftist who believes that “the murder of Israeli civillians is just or fair, or acceptable” – Are you serious? Here’s a tip. Go to Indymedia and type in “Israel” or “palestine” or “zionazi”…
Many believe the Palestinians are fighting a just war of resistance against a military oppressor. That does not translate into antisemitism. It wouldn’t matter who the imperialists are–they will be opposed all the same. You can not blame Leftist agitators for the antisemitic opportunists who use Leftist positions to condemn Jews. The Left doesn’t provide any more ammunition than we do ourselves. In the eyes of antisemites, anything we ever do will forever be wrong. But that’s not the view from the Left.
How about the wonderful pronouncement of the UN Human rights commission which openly stated in a resolution opposing Israel endorsing the “legitimacy of the struggle of peoples… by all available means, including armed struggle.”
How ’bout you wake up and smell the coffee. Israel’s government has been hijacked by right wing extremists who are waging a race war in the name of Greater Israel and smearing the reputation of every Jew worldwide in the process. I’m not blaming Jews for antisemitism, I’m telling them to take responsibility for the part they’ve played in its festering. That’s not capitulation to my enemies, that’s the only approach that will avert all out bloodshed. Ease up cowboy.
that protest sign you carried is dope
I carried this sign in Washington in January. There’s probably a picture of me with it in a file somewhere inside the beltway.
I’m going to destroy your arguments one lie at a time:
Mobius: Ah yes, by saying that in the eyes of a Baathist loyal,….â€
-Liar. That is not what Rall said. Read his words. It was in HIS eyes that such people are traitors. It is his words that “they had it comingâ€. And you love this guy. Sick.
Mobius: “I don’t blame Jews at all; but I insist that they accept responsibility for their contribution to the problem. “
-Hows that for turning logic on its head?
Mobius: Nope. Just a British territory called Palestine, where 800,000 Arab natives lived.
-Caught again with your pants down. You claimed that it was “a country that was factually theirs for at least two hundred years before the Zionists showed upâ€. You lied.
Mobius: Because the whole world hates us and everyone wants us to die?
-(no, idiot, because the UN and its buddies are anti-semitic. And the Left is their biggest supporter…) I asked: “Does your rationale explain why the Magen David Adom is kept out of the Red Cross? Does it explain why the UN (big hero of the Left) condemns Israel more than any other country?†You avoid answering.
Mobius:
(Lie #1) The Jenin Massacre has not been proven not to be.
(Lie#2) 60 dead civillians still makes for a massacre.
(Lie #3)When soldiers tell the newspapers they were gleefully running people over and flatenning their houses with bulldozers you can not consider it anything less than a massacre.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_jenin_2002.php
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/218vnicq.asp
http://www.nyu.edu/globalbeat/syndicate/biden050602.html
http://www.adl.org/Israel/jenin/default.asp
http://www.time.com/time/2002/jenin/story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wpdyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A24668-2002May2¬Found=true
How many you want buddy? Or do you only trust the anti-semites?
Just as one example. You cite 60 dead civilians. No-one claims that 60 civilians died. 60 people died including terrorists. It is standard Leftist practice to count terrorists when lamenting how many people die under Western “oppressionâ€. Sick.
This is what happens when you close your mind to anything by anti-semitic Leftist propaganda.
Mobius: I’m sorry, Beirut, what?! Refugee camp incursions, what?! How can you turn such a blind eye?
-I asked: “Does it explain why people put pictures of Sharon on posters next to other leaders who INTENTIONALLY kill innocents? “
I really feel that I am getting a Masters degree in Leftist lunacy. Is there a single credible source that claims that Sharon ORDERED people killed in Sabra and Shatila? Even one? Sure he was held INDIRECTLY responsible for allowing ARAB Lebanese into the camp, but to compare him to people who INTENTIONALLY target civilians (and admit it, trumpet it, celebrate it, etc…) is despicable. Your Double standard is showing.
Mobius: Who is this Left you speak of? As though they have one unified voice. Their are a varying array of opinions on this subject. The most controversial ones are just the ones that get the most attention.
I asked: “Does it explain why the Left increasingly supports the notion that Israel is illegitimate from the get-go? “ I said: “increasinglyâ€. This word implies that I am aware that it is not the universal opinion, but a growing one…
Mobius: Jewish neocons are responsible for US policy. Unless you think Perle & Wolfowitz are just figments of our imagination. They’re also responsible for Israeli policy. That doesn’t make it a Jewish conspiracy, however, just the fulfillment of the interests of a few idealogues.
-Hmmmm, I wonder what happened to Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, and all those other non-Jewish names? The problem is not that there are some Jews who believe that one must be forceful with terrorists, IT IS THAT PEOPLE POINT ONLY TO THE JEWS when describing the ‘cabal’ behind US policy. That is anti-semitism. Nuff said.
Mobius: (claiming that it is valid to blame Israel for 9-11): Well, can you explain a few things for me perhaps, cuz I’m a little murky on them.
1. Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001. 2. The Israeli firm Comverse provides wiretapping/eavesdropping to US Law Enforcement. Comverse owns Odigo. On the morning of Sept. 11, Odigo employees at the World Trade Center were instructed to evacuate the building prior to the attacks. 3. Several armed Israelis were arrested (including an IDF officer and a Mossad agent) infiltrating the Mexican congress.
Try explaining what’s going on there.
-Hard to say. I went to Google and tried to find out. Most of the links supporting your theory were from Neo-Nazi sites, Hate sites, and kooks. Here are some of your compatriots.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/12/Israelis/spies1.html
http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/nsforum/ns9-29.html
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/index169.htm
http://www.americanfreepress.net/12_16_01/9-11_Hijackers/9-11_hijackers.html
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/index134.htm
http://www.duke.org/writings/howisraelcaused911.pdf
As a matter of fact, while perusing that last link it struck me how much his theories and manner of describing Israel are similar to yours. Read it and see. He supports the Jewish Neo-con thing too. You guys have a lot in common. Think that is just hyperbole? Go read it.
Here is another page from David Duke which is virtually identical to Leftist sites. In fact, if not for the intro one would be hard pressed to decide if it was Leftist or David Duke. (It also contains your theory of Israel and 9-11):
http://www.nowarforisrael.com/
Enjoy!
Then I did a little more research and found:
http://www.sicmuse.com/weblog/archives/000600.htm
http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/9-11conspiracytheories.pdf
Mobius: The real and legitimate offer you speak off was the shit end of a stick. And Leftists don’t ignore these things at all. They just considering the sociological reasoning behind them, which you don’t even stop to consider.
-Yes, yes, of course the old Leftist line. Maybe lets ask SOMEONE WHO WAS ACTUALLY THERE (at Camp David) – Dennis Ross, Clintons chief negotiator:
http://foreignpolicy.com/issue_julyaug_2002/ross.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,50830,00.html
Just one quote:
“ROSS: … So the Palestinians would have in the West Bank an area that was contiguous. Those who say there were cantons, completely untrue. It was contiguous.
HUME: Cantons being ghettos, in effect…
ROSS: Right.
HUME: … that would be cut off from other parts of the Palestinian state.
ROSS: Completely untrue. “
Do you even bother to consider how deluded your peers are?
– I asked: “Does it explain why “peace” protestors are ALWAYS protesting the nations and forces which oppose terror, Islamic fascism, and anti-semitism – but never the reverse? “ And you twisted the meaning of the question in order to avoid answering. I did not ask why they always protest stopping evil, but why it is ONLY that and NEVER protesting terrorists, fascists, etc… Only in opposition to those who work to oppose them. It shows you where their real motivations lie.
Mobius: Wasn’t it enough that we starved 1,000,000 Iraqi babies with sanctions; we have to drop bombs on them now too?
-Typical Leftist claptrap. Its not like US planes had “Babyseeker†missiles. This is just another Leftist ploy to make people who try to avoid civilian casualties as somehow the equivalent of those who seek them. We are not dropping bombs on those babies, but on Saddams thugs. Thugs who kill babies and drop people into wood shredders. Dropping bombs on these guys is what you oppose. Your position would mandate that we never make war, even on the worst genocidal dictator since it might accidentally harm someone. (But of course you hang out with folks who think its AOK to bomb Jews on busses) Sick.
1 million died because of sanctions? Funny what you can find with Google:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/23/1053585696870.html
This is the reason why we (legitimately) consider Leftist allies of Saddam and the terrorists.
Mobius: Many believe the Palestinians are fighting a just war of resistance against a military oppressor. That does not translate into antisemitism.
-Once again caught with your pants down. You challenged me to find even ONE leftist who believes that the murder of Israeli civillians is just or fair, or acceptable. I found plenty, so instead of condemning, you condone. Vile.
Mobius: In the eyes of antisemites, anything we ever do will forever be wrong. But that’s not the view from the Left.
-Liar. That is the standard Leftist double standard. Something the Left employs with Relish. You need to spend more time on infoshop and indymedia.
Mobius: How ’bout you wake up and smell the coffee.
-I asked: “How about the wonderful pronouncement of the UN Human rights commission which openly stated in a resolution opposing Israel endorsing the “legitimacy of the struggle of peoples… by all available means, including armed struggle.” Once again, you avoid the damning evidence of the complicity of the Left in rising global anti-semitism. If you want to debate the efficacy of Sharons policy that is fine. However, that was off the topic. I showed that the UN (The darling of the Left and its ‘multi-lateralism) openly supports terror against Jews (but not against anyone else). You have no good response. Case closed.
Talk about waking up to smell the coffee.