Amit seems to have gotten the Zionism thing confused. Before Zionism, it was “Everybody hates us. What can we do? We’ll just have to suffer.” With Zionism, it’s supposed to be “They hated us. But now they don’t, because we killed them.” Not exactly what you had in mind, is it, Amit?

But the point of Zionism is that once again the Jews are responsible for their own lives. No more “everybody hates us” arguments. Everything is in our hands now. Even the shit.

Could be for lack of evidence. Why not take this opportunity to explain this statement? WHICH oil interests (individuals, entities, etc.)? WHAT are thet doing? WHY?

I liked the “friends” argument. Apparently having certain friends confers an expertise so absolute it can’t be rebutted. Suicide bombers murder Jews? Palestinian children taught to hate and kill Jews (textbooks filled with anti-Semitism)? Polls showing Palestinian hatred toward Jews in above- 90 percentages? All nonsense, because a few dozen friends work with Palestinians. After all, first-hand conversations are the only evidence – no chance that these Palestinians could be sugar-coating their beliefs for their audience.

“until you have compassion and show the arab world that we are honest and decent people and not the puppets or the puppeteers of corrupt and evil men, willing to kill as many civilians as it takes to prevent having to actually negotiate a real peace settlement,”

I’m sure the Arab world would be very impressed. If only Jews had always shown their enemies how wonderful the Jews were, I’m sure all of the catastrophies of Jewish history could have been avoided. But those Jews, though…they bring it on themselves.

how many of your friends spend day-in and day-out working with palestinians in the occupied territories ben david? i have literally dozens. how many of your friends have had jewish weddings in palestinian villages? 3 of mine have so far. how many of your friends are engaged in joint struggle with palestinians and who have developed vast amounts of friendship and mutual respect with them? how much do you really know about what palestinians think and what palestinians want — from frequent, first hand conversations with palestinians — versus what the shithead likudniks who wrote your talking points spew or present out of context?

you are cheerleading an all-out war between islam and the west that the west cannot possibly win. you are helping drive the world towards a war of apocalyptic proportions and you don’t even recognize the oil interests that are underlying this entire propaganda war and the racism both sides employ to mobilize the troops. you are completely and totally oblivious to the reality of the complexities within arab and muslim society, the positive aspects of the jewish people’s historic relationship with islam, and the historic crimes committed by the very same people in the white house today driving the world to war (iran contra anyone? s&l scandal? iraq war 1? iraq war 2? amnesty is only months away from releasing a report showing the still ongoing arms dealing between israel and iran!)

you ignore the fundamental reality that neoconservative notions of regime change have failed to extraordinarily that the men who helped create them, including frank fukuyama himself, have distanced himself from the philosophy and pronounced it a failure. and you are ignoring the very fact that the ayatollah himself accepted the arab league’s peace deal with israel which israel refuses to even negotiate.

so please… just save your bullshit. i am so so so sick of hearing it. your racism, your fundamentalism, and your thick headedness make me sick to the pit of my stomach.

ADONAI ECHUD sir. everything. everyone. all that is. ONE. until you recognize the one in all and stop with your inane divisiveness — until you have compassion and show the arab world that we are honest and decent people and not the puppets or the puppeteers of corrupt and evil men, willing to kill as many civilians as it takes to prevent having to actually negotiate a real peace settlement, until you love and serve god with all your heart and mind and stop worshipping the false idol of medinat yisrael, peace will forever be beyond our reach.

I’m sure you’d like to find Jewish support for your pet “non-violence” theory – but there is none. Each lion-n-lamb passage of the prophets can be countered with other passages describing the Messiah as a king engaged in military conquest and bloody defense of Israel from its enemies.

Lion-n-lamb pacifism comes after (if at all) – and is predicated upon the Jews’ ability to mount a vigorous self defense. And “all nations come to Jerusalem” after being whupped in battle – and those nations that don’t come to Jerusalem die out by G-d’s own hand, through drought and pestilence (see the famous Haftorah of Sukkot).

So G-d doesn’t sound like much of a pacifist either…

Esther – you write:
compassion and a willingness to soften our hearts before our enemies could have a marvelous effect on our national security.
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Events – not just of the past month, but of the past 2 decades of Oslo – have disproved your assertion – forcefully. We are now fighting for our very lives here in Israel, because we pursued this wishful, yet unrealistic, approach.

You now must choose – like many idealists of the Left – between admitting your theories do not match reality, or spinning away from reality to keep your ideological bubble intact. Unfortunately all too many have chosen to detach from reality to preserve their ideology – and to preserve their sense of intellectual superiority.

Like many Israelis, I have less and less sympathy for “progressive” Jews who cannot clearly distinguish between friend and foe.

I feel less and less kinship with people who claim to represent our “prophetic tradition” – yet whose morality is so clouded by relativism and multicultural self-abnegation that they cannot wholeheartedly stand with Israel – or clearly condemn its attackers.

I have less and less patience with “progressives” who refuse to admit the factual failure of their theories – who refuse to see that decades of ‘understanding’ and aiding the Palestinians has invited further attack and undercut our own authentic claim to our homeland… and refusing to see, urge yet another round of pie-in-the-sky “dialogue” and “understanding” upon us.

As someone who has spent serious time in the OT, with Palestinians of all stripes (even a supporter of the PFLP-GC! Very rare!), I have to say that compassion and a willingness to soften our hearts before our enemies could have a marvelous effect on our national security. It isn’t enough; but the Arab masses are not a solid mass of seething hate. They are people like us, they can be reached, and one of the best ways to do so is with people to people diplomacy.

The hard core of unreachable enemies is greater than we’d like, but less than you imagine.

The money can be better spent on your own people in northern Israel. The lebanese don’t want your money and if you gave it anyway they would interpret it, correctly in my opinion, as trying to “buy” them.

In understand everyones eagerness to go beyond the letter of the Torah. I doubt however the spirit of the Torah calls for giving financial assistance to your enemies.

And in case anyone wants to make the point that it will prevent islamic extremism. Wrong, islamic extremism causes poverty not the other way around. Just look at Lebanon the past 30 years:

Shiites when poor: peaceful
Shiites when wealthy: hezbollah
shiites now: poor again

See the pattern? It repeates in every islamic state.