Neturei Karta Shul in Monsey Set Ablaze
The AP reports,
Authorities are investigating a suspicious fire that destroyed the synagogue of an anti-Zionist Jewish group that had been heavily criticized for attending a conference in Iran last year where participants debated the Holocaust.
No one was injured in Sunday night’s fire. A senior Neturei Karta rabbi and his family, who lived on the top floor of the three-story structure, were not home.
“It may in the future be found to be accidental, but at this time we’re treating it as a suspicious fire and we’re investigating it as such,” said Sgt. Daniel Hyman of the Ramapo Police Department, which serves the suburban community of Monsey, about 35 miles north of New York City.
This is a disgraceful way to enter the chag. Mazal tov to everyone who jumped on the “bash NK” bandwagon, and in doing so, enabled this atrocity.
Jews burning shuls to the ground. WTF is the world coming to?
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Zionism – is Nationalism – which in extreme is Facism – and Facism against Jews is Nazism.
“The State of Israel” is over.
‘Zion is a Sate of Mind! I’m going to Zion.’ -Robert Nester Marley (1969)
May we all be in Zion this year!
You Are Moshiach Now!
—MaxKohanzad · April 2nd, 2007 at 8:19 am
Yes, obviously we can all agree this is just awful. But, really, how do we know that it wasn’t just a regular, old run-of-the-mill Jewish hate crime? Before we jump to conclusions that it was other Jews who did this (which, yes, is of course a possibility) perhaps we should let the facts sort themselves out.
Chag pesach sameach everyone.
—Adam · April 2nd, 2007 at 9:23 am
adam:
exhibit a
exhibit b
exhibit c
—Mobius · April 2nd, 2007 at 10:15 am
I don’t know… even though people don’t like them, the article said that the fire started in the kitchen on the Sunday night before Passover… yes, it’s still suspicious, but I don’t think it’s obvious that this was arson. If it turns out to be that other Jews deliberately torched it, then that is awful, and I’ll be just as disgusted. But I’m not ready to conclude that yet.
—Mylene · April 2nd, 2007 at 10:48 am
There’s no causation between my being on the anti-NK badwagon and that fire. Enabled? For someone who values free speech as much as you historically claim to (MazalTov cocktail, anyone?) suggesting that criticism = blame for a fire is grossly inconsistent.
Chag sameach.
—Siviyo · April 2nd, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Frum kids are notorious pyromaniacs…
Just sayin’, that’s all.
—Balaam's Donkey · April 2nd, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Ok, I confees, I did it. I bashed NK, therefor I’m responsible for their shul burning – even if it was an accident, bad wiring, etc. I’m still guilty because I don’t like them. Even if it was a miscreant little jerk who claims to be frum, even a jerk I never met or communicated with, I’m responsible. Even if it was a standard Muslim anti semite who did it I’m responsible. And why am I responsible – because I’m a Jew, and therefor responsible for all the worlds ills, right?
—incorrect · April 2nd, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Muffti as to agree. Regading Mob’s evidence, can we say ‘circumstantial’?
—Grand Muffti · April 2nd, 2007 at 3:22 pm
To Incorrect –
I don’t get it, are you indirectly blaming the Muslims for this by being sarcastic? That no Jew is possibly capable of something like this? Because just as much as the usual “they blame us for the world’s ills” excuses bothers you, it bothers us too, when we get blamed for any average crime that has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims.
So please clarify your sarcasm. What are you implying? And who are you blaming, if not the Jews responsible?
—Esra'a · April 2nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
“Jews burning shuls to the ground. WTF is the world coming to?”
Your 6 sense assure you that were jews who set fire the naturei karta shul?
J.
—Júlio Silva Cunha · April 2nd, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Mobius…
Yes, I agree that there is something suspicious here, and I would lie if I didn’t immediately think of the beating of the NK rabbi when I first read the article about the fire. Again, though, we really have no idea yet. Suspicious, yes, definitive by no means.
Maybe it was a rogue matzah making bus with its break lines clipped?
—Adam · April 2nd, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Esra, first of all, happy Pesach. Next, my sarcasm was directed at the idea that ANYONE, Jew, Muslim, or Christian, is responsible for a criminal act other than the one who committed it. Of course a Jew may have set fire to the Shul, so might a Christian, or Muslim, or a NK member himself in an attempt to win sympathy – I don’t know who did it, and no one else does other than the criminal (if there is one). I’m very happy to let the police investigate, and when they find the criminal, Jew, Gentile, or otherwise (again if there is one) that person should be prosecuted. Does it really do the victims or anyone else good to project possible villains, or to blame entire groups? Isn’t group responsibility for individual acts the very thing we decry as Jews (i.e. the Jews kill Christ)? Stay calm, stay cool, don’t throw accusations around, and let the facts develop.
—incorrect · April 3rd, 2007 at 1:11 am
Well well well: turns out probably not arson at all, aren’t some of you awfully embarrassed now (mea culpa’s should be posted now): from tonights NY Times:
But on Monday afternoon, hours after calling the blaze suspicious, investigators with the Ramapo Police Department reversed themselves and said that although the fire, which began in a washroom on the ground floor, remained under investigation, they had determined that arson was almost certainly not a factor.
Detective Lt. Brad Weidel of the Ramapo police said that dogs had gone through the rubble but failed to detect any traces of an accelerant, leading investigators to believe that a gas or electrical problem might have touched off the blaze.
“We understand that there is some controversy surrounding this group,†Detective Weidel said at a news conference on Monday. “But our best investigators are telling us that they believe this was not an arson. At this time, the fire is not suspicious.â€
—incorrect · April 3rd, 2007 at 1:34 am
Just thought about this further, it’s actually a good lesson that instructs us: not to spread rumours; not to jump to conclusions before we know the facts; not let any innate prejudice against any particular group colour our view of the world; not to violate a basic precept of our religion that we are to love our fellow Jew; not to forget, particularly during Passover, that we are binded as one nation, and our future as a nation and as individuals in that nation will depend on how we work together. Love your fellow Jew.
—incorrect · April 3rd, 2007 at 6:54 am
i sure hope this wasnt arson.
—shmuel · April 3rd, 2007 at 8:52 am
I understand the Ramapo Police are now interested in questioning äùÃ, who has been designated an ‘entity of interest’ in the case, to see if s/he has an alibi.
—Bei Mir Bist Du Spaghetti · April 3rd, 2007 at 9:07 am
Um, Religious Jews leave various fires burning throughout yom tov… it could have been an accident… it happened in my house once…
—OJ · April 3rd, 2007 at 11:56 am
Fanning the flames before all the facts are in is EXACTLY what the internet is for. Count me as a supporter of Mob and more or less convinced that it was anti-anti-Zionist frum Jews acting on behalf of Balaam’s Donkey.
No carrot for you! Bad donkey!
BTW, I’d like to design a new computer game where supporters of Israel firebomb synagogues and run away. The first screen starts in Iraq in the late ’40s. Anyone here know how to do that?
—Jew Guevara · April 3rd, 2007 at 11:58 am
man I’m hearing nothing but crickets from Mobius right now.
—rootlesscosmo · April 3rd, 2007 at 12:48 pm
One of the things I always loved most about Pesach as a kid was going to the shul to watch the rabbi kashering the kitchen with a blowtorch, so I’m not overwhelmed by the circumstantial evidence. And I agree with several of the other commentors here that fanning the flames, while a popular way to waste time online, is not the most helpful thing we could be doing. Better to express sympathy toward fellow Jews who have lost their shul the day before Pesach, regardless of how we feel about their views. And as with any fire, there is an investigation which will tell us what caused it, so that we don’t have to guess.
—Marisa · April 3rd, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Good news – the torah scrolls were saved. www.1010wins.com/pages/334241.php?contentType=4&contentId=396943
And rootlesscosmo, it’s yom tov, so Mobius can’t say anything for a while yet. How convenient!
—Mylene · April 3rd, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Well, according to press reports, the authorities are now backing away from arson suspicion which only leaves us with Mobius’ suspicions which proves the instruction òì úçùåã áëùøéà aka – don’t suspect the good guys
—Yisrael Medad · April 3rd, 2007 at 5:10 pm
what i saw is that they’re claiming to have found no accelerant; ie. gasoline was not poured all over the house. that doesn’t mean that someone didn’t set the fire.
it shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that i would suspect a crazy right-wing jew of doing such a thing. i receive threatening messages all the time and i don’t even remotely have the visibility of nk. i never even made the masada 2000 shit list.
nonetheless, if this turns out to be an “act of g-d,” i’ll eat my hat.
—Mobius · April 3rd, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Mobius, when and where – will there be an admission charge? The entire hat or just the rim? With or without ketchup?
—incorrect · April 3rd, 2007 at 6:16 pm
pay per view webcast; and with khrane, obviously
—Mobius · April 3rd, 2007 at 8:53 pm
i never even made the masada 2000 shit list
dude, keep your chin up. hope springs eternal.
—rootlesscosmo · April 4th, 2007 at 11:41 am
[...] This is me eating my hat. Why? Because I keep my word. [...]
—Jew School » Blog Archive » NK shul fire not arson · June 10th, 2007 at 6:00 am