Comments on: In our mouths and in our hearts: Day 16

By: rebecca m

rebecca m — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:31:59 +0000

nathan– I think you could argue that sturgeon eggs are cool or important because they don’t need preparation. But because they are produced by a sturgeon, they are already beyond the pale.

By: OJ

OJ — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:56:09 +0000

eretz zavat halav udevash = "a land oozing with (goat) milk and (date) honey" modern scholarship also notes that the manna in exodus 16 etc. may have been sap from the tamarisk gallica var mannifera excreted by ants in the southern sinai.

By: nathan

nathan — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:36:36 +0000

nearly related: I once read that Milk and Honey are important because they are the only products of animals that we can eat that need no cooking or preparation. I have tried to think of a reason this isnt true, but cannot. Eggs seem to be in the odd grey area. It seems strange to me that eggs are not considered meat, maybe it is the same thing: they are a product. But then why are sturgeon eggs not Kosher but this logic?

By: LastTrumpet

LastTrumpet — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:12:57 +0000

Here’s the answer:

The Mishna in Tractate Bechorot states:

“That which comes from something which is Tameh [non-Kosher] is Tameh, and that which comes of that which is Tahor [Kosher] is Tahor.” The product of a non-Kosher animal is not Kosher.

So why is bee honey Kosher?

The Talmud in the same Tractate quotes a Beraita (a Halachic teaching from the time of the Mishna) which says:

“Why did they say that bee-honey is permitted? Because even though they bring it into their bodies, it is not a *product* of their bodies [it is stored there but not produced there].”

All the Sages of the Mishna agree with this ruling. One of them, Rabbi Yaakov, disagrees with the *reasoning*. He claims that bee-honey is Kosher based on his interpretation of Vayikra 11:21. According to him, the verse prohibits one to eat a flying insect, but *not* that which is *excreted* from it.

Maimonides codifies bee-honey as being Kosher, as does the Shulchan Aruch.

from www.jewishcooking.org/kosherfood/honey.html

By: Marisa

Marisa — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:01:39 +0000

Fascinating… yes, I generally avoid eating any of the sheratzim! (I’m more inclined to swat at them.) But what about the products of the swarmies? Honey, or silk, if we’re including non-edibles. My thinking is this – I understand that honey is not physically part of a bee, but kosher wine requires that the people producing it be observant Jews. How is this different?

By: Alan

Alan — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:37:08 +0000

Marisa -

Israelite taxonomy divided creatures by locomotion:

Dagim = Swimmers (tuna, dolphins, sharks)
Chayot = Walkers (bison, giraffes, dogs)
Behemot = domesticated Chayot (cows, sheep)
Ofot = Flyers (eagles, hawks, pigeons)
Sheratzim = Swarmy/creepy-crawly things (most bugs, rodents, parasites, and reptiles)

By: Marisa

Marisa — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:01:59 +0000

I’m curious about all of the “swarming” things… it seems like there’s something inherently bad about anything that swarms, but my only concept of this is flying insects. What else “swarms?” It’s such an odd term. I can’t imagine anyone thinking that eating bees would be a good idea, but what about their honey? How can that be kosher when it’s produced by swarms of bees?

By: rebecca m

rebecca m — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:38:13 +0000

I am fascinated by the word “abominate”. I’m going to have to work that one into conversation sometime soon.