with friends like this, the jewish people don’t need Iran.
Did I understand their logic right? The anti-christ will come as a man of peace, so dont make peace with anyone – wait for G-d to wipe out the human race, that’s when we’ll have peace?
So there are xtians with some nutty views of how the world ends but support Jews and Israel (even thought they think we will go to hell) v. a bunch of leftists who could care less about our souls (since they don’t believe in that concept) but spend a good junk of their waking hours doing their best to destroy Israel and the Jews.
Mobius, think about it, which is more likely to get you killed.
we muzlim ninjas r gonna gut you all!!!1 we’re satan! fite for ur rights!
Most disturbing moments:
-The Christian wearing a tallis as a fashion accessory
-The weird possessed interpretive dance at the end when the credits start
Like TomC said, with friends like these, who needs enemies? These people are scary – And they have money. And worse, people in our own (Jewish) community are more than happy to help them out – Zionist organizations, Leiberman, etc – because all they care about is funding right-wing Zionism, regardless of how much they compromise their own morals and their own people in the process.
I’ve seen Hagee don a tallit as well, so as to “legitimate” the blessing he was about to bestow upon his flock.
And we can’t say, “How would he like it if we all started wearing crosses?” – ’cause he’d love that!
Very interesting and disturbing post… on the hopeful side there was this article in the NY Times on Sunday :Coalition of Evangelicals Voices Support for Palestinian State; http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/us/29evangelical.html
Thirty-four evangelical leaders signed onto this statement including those who are leaders of denominations and seminaries. I’m glad to see Evangelicals beginning to stand up for a policy on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict which is much more level headed even while dealing with others who act like Hagee.
Would you rather be a drowning Jew stuck with fundie-Christians on a Sunday, or a drowning Christian stuck with fundie Jews on shabbot?
I think the real question for progressive Zionists like myself is how we make sure that when peace is possible, Israel’s allies support her attempts. (Hat’s off to Brit Tzedek Ve’Shalom for their lobbying work)
If the Xtians for Israel continue to preech that Israel can never make peace with the Muslims, and they have a powerful influence over the White House, Government of Canada, and others, how are we to ever expect Israel to make peace.
A true friend doesn’t send a brother back into battle if the battle can be ended.
Maybe that’s the real difference: maybe the real argument that Zionists are fighting today is “Is peace possible (without wiping out one side or the other)?”
So, Reb Incorrect, I’m supposed to believe that those who want to bring PHYSICAL – NOT spiritual – Armageddon to the world by putting Jews in a position in which they are in supreme danger are GOOD for Israel and the Jews, whereas those who call for the preservation of Jewish and Gentile life are not?
The people in this video are virulent anti-Semites. By giving them support, the likes of Joseph Lieberman and the ZOA are supporting those who will do everything in their power to see Jews slaughtered en masse.
It’s beyond disgusting. It’s reprehensible.
I find the virulent anti-muslim ideology and the whole “whoever makes peace between the Jews and the Arabs is the true antichrist” thing quite disturbing. But I chalk up the fashion-tallis to J4J idiocy (there were a couple of Hebrew “yeshuah” t-shirts in there, too), and have a hard time giving credibility to anyone who cites a popular series of slasher novels (the “Left Behind” books) as a source of theology. And perhaps most importantly, I’m still don’t really care about the whole rapture thing.
They’re saying they should support us in our beliefs and endeavors now, and that when Jesus comes back and reveals himself to be the true messiah, we’ll be given an opportunity to accept him as the messiah or else burn in hell forever.
I’m pretty sure I’ve commented on this before, but if they’re willing to let me believe what I want now, and I only have to worry about what happens if they’re right (at which point I’ll even be given a second chance), then what’s the problem? I’ll go on believing Jesus was just another member of the tribe. If I’m right, I have nothing to worry about. And if I’m wrong and Jesus really turns out to be the messiah, then it’ll probably be pretty obvious and I’ll admit I was wrong (oops!) and go to Christian heaven with a whole bunch of new-found Christian friends. So what’s the big deal?
Who cares if Hagee has a big house? Who cares if Lieberman is willing to fellate Hagee a bit in exchange for campaign contributions from Hagee’s minions? Who cares if said minions enjoy reading fantasy novels featuring gory deaths of nonbelievers?
Yes, we need to fight the anti-peace and Muslims-are-evil things. But looking forward to the rapture does not make these people antisemites.
Eagerly awaiting the day when Jews will face a choice between accepting Jesus and having their eyes burned out of their sockets makes them anti-Semites.
National Socialists believed in a preposterous theology/mythology too.
“when Jesus comes back and reveals himself to be the true messiah, weâ€™ll be given an opportunity to accept him as the messiah or else burn in hell forever.”
Actually, it doesn’t work that way. There are different flavors, but, in general, it goes something like this: First they get Raptured, and float away to meet Jesus in the sky. Then come seven years of horrendous suffering – which we deserve, because we’ll deserve, because we haven’t recognized him. Jesus hasn’t returned yet, and everyone who dies without believing in him goes straight to hell. Then he finally shows up as divine judge. At that point, we’ll all believe – but it will be too late. He casts us all into the lake of fire. You see, we get credit for believing in him when it’s hard – NOT when it’s obvious. And it’s all or nothing – he doesn’t grade on a curve (fundies can’t stand ambiguity).
So, you see, unless you’re talking to one of the growing number of Evangelical universalists (who are still small enough in number to hold a meeting in my kitchen) – there is no second chance. You have to decide RIGHT NOW!
Hehe, I know Nick Israel. Damn.
Call me crazy, but somehow I find someone who supports me politically and otherwise but who thinks I will burn is hell is preferable to someone who is trying to boycott me to death but doesn’t care about soul. I have confidence in my religious beliefs, therefor the fundamentalists can’t hurt me (maybe they can the children of non believing Jews, maybe that’s the reason the secularists amongst us are so afraid of the fundamentalists).
It’s not either/or. Opposing Evangelical meddling does not imply supporting British boycotts. There’s something called “nuance”; look it up.
What’s really scary is that you refer to people who urge Israel to conduct endless war and to perpetuate grotesque human rights abuses as supporting you politically.
Perhaps you have more in common with these psychopaths than you let on.
EV, are you so lacking in backbone that you can’t tell even a friend when they are wrong? In WWII the U.S. allied itself with Russia v. Germany, we made a strategic alliance not because we loved communistic fascism, but because we needed to beat Hitler. We didn’t find it necessary to embrace the gulag to team up with Stalin.
And I would term psychopathic those Jews who ally themselves with those who are doing their best, through boycotts and other nefarious means to physically murder Jews – need I name names: Noam Chomsky, Adam Shapiro, Howard Zinn, Amy Goodman, etc.
I have confidence in my religious beliefs, therefor the fundamentalists canâ€™t hurt me
I see lots of my fellow Jews making this error, and it IS an error, and here’s why:
Implicit in our willingness to accept their help is a bet that their eschatology is either wrong, or won’t come to pass. In the Video Dore Gold articulates this belief when he says that he thinks its Ahmedinejad, not these folks who are pushing the hand towards Armaggeddon.
The truth is these folks ARE pushing the hand, they are trying every bit as much as Ahmedinejad to immanentize the Eschaton. And they have no qualms about using the influence they are buying in Washington and Jerusalem to do that. Their assistance is NOT benign.
The boycotters infuriate me, but these people frighten me – it’s like they are pushing us toward a brink.
And when I consider that the Liberal Christians are the ones who are boycotting and the Conservative Christians are the ones pushing for their eschatology, I do not ask myself which I prefer.
I ask myself why we ever bothered with “The Dialogue” in the first place.
esra’a — did you know that because you’re muslim and you’re against the occupation that you want to murder jews? and did you know that because we’re all like “friendly online” and stuff, that i tacitly want to murder jews too?
do you know what’s absurd? the fact that in 2007, there are those of us who can so easily spew such bigoted, idiotic drivel.
We need to get close enough to our cousins the Arabs to have us both be united against our one true enemy: Western Christians.
From their perverted logic of a trinity being monotheism, through continual ethnic cleansing over the last 1000+ years, up to crap like this, they are the enemy of all us both: Jew and Muslim.
Nathan, you look like a sock puppet.
An article written last year by Rabbi David Federow of Houston for Jews on First:
in which he questions the wisdom of Jewish groups getting into bed with the Christian Right.
Rabbi Federow is AMAZING!He holds nothing back and does not worry about being PC. Too bad the president of the Houston JCC, Wische is Haggee’s biggest fan and emails us to support that windbag. No way. Living in Texas all my life, I am used to the 3 testifiers in the doc. They only care about Jews to , one- Convert..put a feather in their hat, and two for their end times theory.Tom Delay is creepy weird too.I do have some pals that are Baptist. They seem to not really believe what they spew, but think that trying to convince me they will start to beleive it.But at least here in texas, Baptists hate Catholics, Catholics think Baptists are missing something. Lutherans convert to be Baptist so they can go to bigger/funner churhces.Methodists are only known for their casseroles.I never down their beliefs to them though. I am resepctful of them.
end summary: Haggee is “satan” in a suit
I was lucky enough to take a meeting with the group of Christians for Israel when they came to our office (I work on on the Hill). It was enjoyable and hilarious all around. Favorite moments included:
– When my boss came in after one of the staffers had been courteously placating them and started off the meeting by telling the group he just wasn’t going to agree with them
– When one of the group members told us the Palestinians fouled up their shot at a Palestinian state by failing to turn Gaza, a “beautiful piece of land right on the Mediterranean,” into a “resort town with a tourist industry”
– When one of the group members affirmed that Muslims really can’t be trusted because it is part of their faith that breaking vows with infidels is perfectly acceptable (“It’s true. I grew up with them.” said the group member when we disagreed)
And finally, the one that takes the cake:
– When one of the women who, I supposed, guessed I was an MOT, as she was shaking my hand on her way out, tried to relate to me by saying, with a confidential tone and a broad smile, “You know, we go to our church on Sundays, and we go to the Messianic church on Saturday.”