But what the heck would I call it?
Rabbi Shlomo Aviner has ruled that it is forbidden for girls to enlist in the army. “It is forbidden! Forbidden like kashrut! Forbidden like Shabbat! And especially forbidden like modesty!”
And while you’re at it, go get me a coffee, purity girl.
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That’s total BS!! This is the 21st century!
—Donna · May 12th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
KRG, you forgot the money quote!
“”We need you to function as a pure and clean woman… and not to undermine your mental foundation… remember: Army service for women, in any shape or form – is forbidden! Forbidden! Resist the temptation!” he concluded”
Function as a pure and clean woman. Any bets on what that means, exactly?
—Ruby K · May 12th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
(yawn) This is ancient news.
—Amit · May 13th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Yes, this is laughable. But since the army has more person-power than it needs, and for some in the Orthodox world there is a legitimate question of modesty, the full service time in Sherut Leumi (civil work with needy populations and in education) would be OK. Same holds true for men unwilling to serve for religious reasons. And for Arab citizens.
But long gone is the time of Zionist chief Rabbis in Israel.
But as long as I am on a soapbox - how ’bout the fact that men do not collect Israeli Social Security (Betuach Leumi) until age 67 while women do at age 64. AND women live longer. Now don’t tell me that women earn less during their careers. We can not justify one bad thing with another.
What does this have to do with the army issue? Nothing directly. But Israel has a long way to go before it becomes egalitarian.
—Meir Eynaim · May 13th, 2008 at 3:40 am
Why should only religious men and women and Arabs serve in sherut leumi? What about conscientious objectors? People with low physical profiles? Every citizen should have to serve their country in some way (and I think this should be the case in every country, not just Israel).
—Arie · May 13th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Sherut leumi and the army aren’t connected. It’s a popular misconception. First, one goes to lishkat giyus (the draft office) and gets an exemption from service. This exemption has no strings attached. After that, if one so chooses, they may go and sign up for sherut leumi.
I believe that sherut leumi should become mandatory for those seeking exemption from military service, be it for moral, religious, or any other reason.
—Yaakov · May 13th, 2008 at 7:37 am
What a surprise but it’s not like he’s saying anything new. Most Orthodox Israelis don’t think women should serve in the army (one of many reasons why I don’t call myself Orthodox). Or, as one person I know said, “liberals… feminists… eh!” Made me feel proud to be a feminist and if thinking women should serve in the army makes me a liberal, also proud to be that one.
—amecahd · May 13th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Amit writes:
(yawn) This is ancient news.
amecahd writes:
What a surprise but it’s not like he’s saying anything new.
It’s nothing new that an Orthodox rabbi is saying that kashrut is forbidden??? I think this will be the issue that finally causes the implosion of the rabbanut, since I think many Orthodox rabbis still support kashrut.
—BZ · May 13th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Somehow I get the impression that not all of you served in the IDF. But, if you have, I’m sure you remember the level of harrasment that women–especially “non-religous” women–endure in the army.
Nothing should justifiy such behavior, but it might have something to do with Rav Aviner’s words.
—Jonathan · May 13th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
It’s nothing new that an Orthodox rabbi is saying that kashrut is forbidden??? I think this will be the issue that finally causes the implosion of the rabbanut, since I think many Orthodox rabbis still support kashrut.
BZ: “…and especially forbidden like modesty.” What I want to know is, what exactly is he advocating that these women do out of the army, then… perhaps lounge about on the beach in bikinis?
—KRG · May 13th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
It is inaccurate to say that Sherut Leumi and army service are unrelated. Those who have done SL receive many of the same government post-army benefits as those who have done military service.
And yes, there should be alternative service for conscientious objectors - when the objection is real.
—Meir Eynaim · May 14th, 2008 at 3:07 am
Meir Eynaim: post sherut leumi one does recieve certain benefits, however the benefits are not identical (i.e., 2 years as a jobnik and 2 years of SL don’t get you the same benefits) and many of the same or similar benefits can be acquired numerous other ways. And regardless, the benefits are only a tiny incentive to encourage people with no requirement to do SL, to volunteer. It still isn’t mandatory.
At the end of the day, nobody really makes much money being in the army (sadir, mandatory service), but for the sisters of some soldiers I served with it actually ended up costing them and their families a significant amount of money when they did SL, as the money provided by the gov’t didn’t come close to covering their expenses.
—Yaakov · May 14th, 2008 at 3:56 am
KRG: Based on another rticle, it would appear that he doesn’t want that either since he doesn’t think women should even wear pants when alone in their own homes. I’m not sure exactly what he expects women in his community to do, as he’s spending so much energy telling them what not to do.
—Kari · May 14th, 2008 at 8:06 am
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—Jewess · May 14th, 2008 at 8:57 am