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	<title>Comments on: A Jew Goes to Church (God Forbid&#8230;)</title>
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	<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/</link>
	<description>Progressive Jews &#38; Judaism</description>
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		<title>By: Introduction to Islam - Dennis Wholley meets Imam Qazwini &#124; IslamLecture</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-323237</link>
		<dc:creator>Introduction to Islam - Dennis Wholley meets Imam Qazwini &#124; IslamLecture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-323237</guid>
		<description>[...] A Jew Goes to Church (God Forbid…) &#124; Jewschool [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A Jew Goes to Church (God Forbid…) | Jewschool [...]</p>
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		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317338</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317338</guid>
		<description>just wondering, do you pet your dog on Shabbat? can you walk it? or is that muqtseh as well...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just wondering, do you pet your dog on Shabbat? can you walk it? or is that muqtseh as well&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317186</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317186</guid>
		<description>baseball equipment is definitely muktzeh - unless you find a way to play without pesiah gasa...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>baseball equipment is definitely muktzeh &#8211; unless you find a way to play without pesiah gasa&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Balaam's Donkey</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317153</link>
		<dc:creator>Balaam's Donkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 02:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317153</guid>
		<description>You know something that is really, truly idolatrous?

Blogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know something that is really, truly idolatrous?</p>
<p>Blogs.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317138</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317138</guid>
		<description>I think the definition of muqtsa is something that has no purpose on Shabbat.  If there is an eruv and the equipment can be used on Shabbat, it is not muqtsa.

So, is playing baseball permitted? Only if it&#039;s activities can permitted, such as running and kicking up dirt, getting hurt, sliding into bases, and creating noise.

The mishnah holds as R&#039; Shimon that moving a chair that inadvertantly creates a rut is not plowing, but is melakha she-eino mitkaven lei, and so is halakha.  The tosefta states one may walk on grass on shabbat and not fear tearing it out.  So, running isn&#039;t an issue.

Creating a sound, mashmia kol, usually refers to intentional or sound with instruments, so not an issue.

Getting hurt on shabbat. This may be like shevut, an activity that is not a melakha per se, but is un shabbat like. One may not climb a tree or ride a horse on Shabbat or float on the water, according to the Yerushalmi, because it is uvdin d&#039;hol.  A good argument can be made that you shouldn&#039;t do things that have a good chance or ruining your shabbat, such as getting hurt.  

The mekhilta says, six days show you do ALL your labor, and on the seventh rest, that is, all weekday activities must be done by Shabbat.  So, on one foot, frisbee should be okay, tennis should be okay, softball may be okay, hardball I would avoid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the definition of muqtsa is something that has no purpose on Shabbat.  If there is an eruv and the equipment can be used on Shabbat, it is not muqtsa.</p>
<p>So, is playing baseball permitted? Only if it&#8217;s activities can permitted, such as running and kicking up dirt, getting hurt, sliding into bases, and creating noise.</p>
<p>The mishnah holds as R&#8217; Shimon that moving a chair that inadvertantly creates a rut is not plowing, but is melakha she-eino mitkaven lei, and so is halakha.  The tosefta states one may walk on grass on shabbat and not fear tearing it out.  So, running isn&#8217;t an issue.</p>
<p>Creating a sound, mashmia kol, usually refers to intentional or sound with instruments, so not an issue.</p>
<p>Getting hurt on shabbat. This may be like shevut, an activity that is not a melakha per se, but is un shabbat like. One may not climb a tree or ride a horse on Shabbat or float on the water, according to the Yerushalmi, because it is uvdin d&#8217;hol.  A good argument can be made that you shouldn&#8217;t do things that have a good chance or ruining your shabbat, such as getting hurt.  </p>
<p>The mekhilta says, six days show you do ALL your labor, and on the seventh rest, that is, all weekday activities must be done by Shabbat.  So, on one foot, frisbee should be okay, tennis should be okay, softball may be okay, hardball I would avoid.</p>
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		<title>By: BZ</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317105</link>
		<dc:creator>BZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317105</guid>
		<description>Between domains, yes.  But the ontological status of reshut harabim d&#039;oraita is uncertain, and it (definitionally) doesn&#039;t include Central Park or anything else that could be enclosed by a kosher eruv.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Between domains, yes.  But the ontological status of reshut harabim d&#8217;oraita is uncertain, and it (definitionally) doesn&#8217;t include Central Park or anything else that could be enclosed by a kosher eruv.</p>
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		<title>By: MS</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317068</link>
		<dc:creator>MS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317068</guid>
		<description>carrying between domains is the 39th melachah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>carrying between domains is the 39th melachah</p>
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		<title>By: BZ</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317042</link>
		<dc:creator>BZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 03:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317042</guid>
		<description>Kari writes:
&lt;i&gt;The only thing that matters is that the eruv exists, and thus the melachah of carrying is not an issue.&lt;/i&gt;

Nitpick: carrying isn&#039;t a melachah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kari writes:<br />
<i>The only thing that matters is that the eruv exists, and thus the melachah of carrying is not an issue.</i></p>
<p>Nitpick: carrying isn&#8217;t a melachah.</p>
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		<title>By: chillul Who?</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317025</link>
		<dc:creator>chillul Who?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317025</guid>
		<description>MS --

Ameyn!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MS &#8211;</p>
<p>Ameyn!!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MS</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2009/01/21/14901/a-jew-goes-to-church-god-forbid/comment-page-1/#comment-317014</link>
		<dc:creator>MS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=14901#comment-317014</guid>
		<description>productive conversation would be for the RCA to say that non-denominational services are never actually non-denominational: they&#039;re highly christian. Making that point would be like the old public school debates as to whether bible readings were non-sectarian. Catholics adamantly responded that the idea of personal bible readings was fundamentally protestant, and objected even to the protestant translation used. These were the first big religion in public school fights. 

In an era of increased religiosity in America where the questions of how religion interacts with the public sphere and what privileges and exemptions we confer upon religious groups this is an important question. Do we really expand the umbrella of diversity by asking Hindu, Muslim and Buddhist  religious leaders to attend a service that has all the forms of protestant christianity sans the name &#039;jesus&#039;? Are there ways to change the medium and therefore the message? Forcing America to think about the ways in which our &quot;neutral but tagged as faith-based&quot; activities have all the forms of protestantism may help us broaden our definitions and understandings of what it means to be religious in this country. Im sorry that if the RCA refuses to attend these events they dont use the moment to start such a dialogue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>productive conversation would be for the RCA to say that non-denominational services are never actually non-denominational: they&#8217;re highly christian. Making that point would be like the old public school debates as to whether bible readings were non-sectarian. Catholics adamantly responded that the idea of personal bible readings was fundamentally protestant, and objected even to the protestant translation used. These were the first big religion in public school fights. </p>
<p>In an era of increased religiosity in America where the questions of how religion interacts with the public sphere and what privileges and exemptions we confer upon religious groups this is an important question. Do we really expand the umbrella of diversity by asking Hindu, Muslim and Buddhist  religious leaders to attend a service that has all the forms of protestant christianity sans the name &#8216;jesus&#8217;? Are there ways to change the medium and therefore the message? Forcing America to think about the ways in which our &#8220;neutral but tagged as faith-based&#8221; activities have all the forms of protestantism may help us broaden our definitions and understandings of what it means to be religious in this country. Im sorry that if the RCA refuses to attend these events they dont use the moment to start such a dialogue.</p>
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