Comments on: Reform surrender

By: parfum

parfum — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 11:52:57 +0000

I think this is really a good idea though; I’m very happy that she at least thought to try it out.. I like to read her internal dialogue on things I don’t generally think about it anymore…

By: E. Fink

E. Fink — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 05:50:37 +0000

Had this been the actual stated objective of the experiment, I would have no objections.

You do realize the title of her article was “Trying out Frum”?

And you also realize that Frum is basically synonymous with orthodox?

By: Adi

Adi — Wed, 05 Oct 2011 03:30:41 +0000

This reminded me of a piece I read in a webzine in my city www.redthreadmagazine.com/economy/speakers-corner/everyone-has-an-agenda/

The Conservative and Reforms streams could change the frame that you so rightfully point out. But they don’t. They are mia. why isn’t growing their community important to them?

By: Oddly enough, this isn’t about me, despite how it sounds « Minhag In Progress: Incursions into the Void

Mon, 03 Oct 2011 22:51:18 +0000

[...] in Reform Judaism magazine, the URJ’s official publication; I read Ben Dreyfus’ excellent dissection of the experiment and its coverage across the web, and have a few thoughts of my [...]

By: Jonah Geffen

Jonah Geffen — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 16:17:39 +0000

Great. Well put. I mostly wanted to say well done, and point out that Sideshow Bob also went to Yale.

By: BZ

BZ — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 13:50:35 +0000

(“As a woman I just didn’t count”—there’s a thing called Conservative, you know).

Also, at the Reform camp where I went (OSRUI), we had egalitarian minyanim twice a day, and said birkat hamazon at every meal. And for all I know, maybe she submitted an article that explained that this non-egalitarian minyan happened to be the only daily minyan available where she was, and the editor cut that part out. But the article they chose to publish was the one that implicitly made an inextricable link between daily davening with a minyan and non-egalitarianism.

It almost set up the experiment as an ‘all or nothing’ deal, wherein the “Orthodox lifestyle” is either for you or not (and of course, like you mentioned, observance has to mean Orthodox).

It doesn’t totally do that, since she asks “What will I continue?” at the end, but it doesn’t have to be “all or nothing” to be problematic; a spectrum of possibilities in which the choices include “20% Orthodox” and “75% Orthodox” is still problematic.

By: Rainbow Tallit Baby

Rainbow Tallit Baby — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 13:00:00 +0000

This is a great and articulate response to the problem of the article. Obviously not enough people at Reform Judaism read your article on framing . I absolutely echo your frustration with the observance=Orthodox practice idea. A take home point should be that people crave meaningful ritual, especially as an anchor at times of upheaval ( college), and ones that can be done outside of a large Temple, and the Reform movement is failing to provide that -- if they did fewer people would seek it elsewhere. This student did have a Reform education but it failed to teach her how, in a manner consistent with Reform theory and practice, she could incorporate more ritual into her life . Nor did her education provide her with a clear enough distinction between Reform and Orthodox attitudes towards practice. If students at Hebrew schools were taught the history, variety and the constant evolution of Orthodox practice (as well as those of other denominations), it would go along way. That might make a better article for the journal as well.

By: Laura

Laura — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 06:42:17 +0000

Another good article.
I read this one too, and the first thing I noticed was the definite dichotomy (“As a woman I just didn’t count”—there’s a thing called Conservative, you know). It almost set up the experiment as an ‘all or nothing’ deal, wherein the “Orthodox lifestyle” is either for you or not (and of course, like you mentioned, observance has to mean Orthodox). And it set it up as if she would cease to be Reform if she did decide to keep those rituals.

I actually thought it was a good idea though; I’m glad she at least thought to try it out.. I liked reading her internal dialogue on things I don’t generally think about anymore (brachot etc.)