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	<title>Comments on: Big Aish kiruv in the Washington Post?</title>
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	<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/</link>
	<description>Progressive Jews &#38; Judaism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 16:06:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jo Smith</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-708064</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-708064</guid>
		<description>I have a son you Aish has managed effectively to indoctrinate. So much so he is currently studying to become a rabbi for them.  I accept that if a son has appropriate respect and tolerance of others views before becoming religeous then these could possibly continue afterwards. In our sons case. Unfortunately this isn&#039;t the case. No matter how much he may losily quote that he loves us. In my personal case I would prefer him to hate me, yet at least show basic respect. As you can hear, that is not the case. We his parents have literally bent over backwards to accommodate him and your taught demands. His arrogant supercilious attitude would grate on all but a proverbial doormat.  

Whilst in principle we are proud that he is following his dreams, the reality is that his personal personality combined with his Aish teaching in real terms means that due to his behavior I admit that I have emotionally withdrawn from him so much that the effect is that of a major loss.

You and your teachers must be so proud of stealing our children from caring loving Jewish families. I cannot support the future in which he plans to wreck the hopes and expected dreams of other equally loving unsuspecting traditional Jewish families.  I admit that my wish would be that a similar painful experience comes to the doors of these religious leaders via their beloved children making lifestyle chooses which leave them feeling bereft.

Whilst I know you will not display my addition, this omition will serve to prove me correct yet again.
Y</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a son you Aish has managed effectively to indoctrinate. So much so he is currently studying to become a rabbi for them.  I accept that if a son has appropriate respect and tolerance of others views before becoming religeous then these could possibly continue afterwards. In our sons case. Unfortunately this isn&#8217;t the case. No matter how much he may losily quote that he loves us. In my personal case I would prefer him to hate me, yet at least show basic respect. As you can hear, that is not the case. We his parents have literally bent over backwards to accommodate him and your taught demands. His arrogant supercilious attitude would grate on all but a proverbial doormat.  </p>
<p>Whilst in principle we are proud that he is following his dreams, the reality is that his personal personality combined with his Aish teaching in real terms means that due to his behavior I admit that I have emotionally withdrawn from him so much that the effect is that of a major loss.</p>
<p>You and your teachers must be so proud of stealing our children from caring loving Jewish families. I cannot support the future in which he plans to wreck the hopes and expected dreams of other equally loving unsuspecting traditional Jewish families.  I admit that my wish would be that a similar painful experience comes to the doors of these religious leaders via their beloved children making lifestyle chooses which leave them feeling bereft.</p>
<p>Whilst I know you will not display my addition, this omition will serve to prove me correct yet again.<br />
Y</p>
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		<title>By: MarkE</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-705997</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-705997</guid>
		<description>I agree with Tuvia. If it works for some people, and they feel it makes their life better, I don&#039;t see a problem here. 

Now I agree, that people should always search for as many perspectives on a subject as possible, but I don&#039;t think that because one person thinks it&#039;s horrible/scary/dangerous those who find meaning in it should be excluded from the experience.

The world is so vast with so many different thoughts, ideas and people,.. can&#039;t we all exist? 

As someone in his early 20s who is by no means frum, but has participated in numerous different Kiruv programs. I can tell you from 1st hand experience:

Yes, I can see how some could perceive it to be brainwashing. However, I could also see how others could find real meaning in it and some who need it.

Brainwashing btw as discribed by Websters;
&quot;a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas&quot;

Now that we all understand what that word actually means, lets be a little objective here. No One is &quot;forcible&quot; indoctrinating anyone. Convincing someone of a different lifestyle, definitely, but forcing? Common.

May we all find a way to open our minds/hearts and live in peace 8-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Tuvia. If it works for some people, and they feel it makes their life better, I don&#8217;t see a problem here. </p>
<p>Now I agree, that people should always search for as many perspectives on a subject as possible, but I don&#8217;t think that because one person thinks it&#8217;s horrible/scary/dangerous those who find meaning in it should be excluded from the experience.</p>
<p>The world is so vast with so many different thoughts, ideas and people,.. can&#8217;t we all exist? </p>
<p>As someone in his early 20s who is by no means frum, but has participated in numerous different Kiruv programs. I can tell you from 1st hand experience:</p>
<p>Yes, I can see how some could perceive it to be brainwashing. However, I could also see how others could find real meaning in it and some who need it.</p>
<p>Brainwashing btw as discribed by Websters;<br />
&#8220;a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas&#8221;</p>
<p>Now that we all understand what that word actually means, lets be a little objective here. No One is &#8220;forcible&#8221; indoctrinating anyone. Convincing someone of a different lifestyle, definitely, but forcing? Common.</p>
<p>May we all find a way to open our minds/hearts and live in peace <img src='http://jewschool.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tuvia</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-704703</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuvia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2012 03:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-704703</guid>
		<description>I spent ten months at aish.  I think they are doing a great job of scaring the hell out of people.  Are other forms of Judaism even legitimate?  I can’t be sure after ten months there.  

They cover everything very in depth. They seem to actually care 100 percent about Judaism.  They make no excuses.

Are they correct? I have NO idea.

But we need more SPECIFIC attacks with EVIDENCE as to what is WRONG with orthodoxy.

Just saying it is brain washing is not enough.

They sure scared the hell out of me.  I would not recommend it to anyone.

But they also made a lot of kids frum.

Tuvia</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent ten months at aish.  I think they are doing a great job of scaring the hell out of people.  Are other forms of Judaism even legitimate?  I can’t be sure after ten months there.  </p>
<p>They cover everything very in depth. They seem to actually care 100 percent about Judaism.  They make no excuses.</p>
<p>Are they correct? I have NO idea.</p>
<p>But we need more SPECIFIC attacks with EVIDENCE as to what is WRONG with orthodoxy.</p>
<p>Just saying it is brain washing is not enough.</p>
<p>They sure scared the hell out of me.  I would not recommend it to anyone.</p>
<p>But they also made a lot of kids frum.</p>
<p>Tuvia</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca M</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-697537</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 15:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-697537</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say it&#039;s the only view; and I agree that the &quot;life or death&quot; bit is a special twisted Aish touch.  But I&#039;ve never encountered the &quot;it&#039;s more complicated&quot; views in any of the modern Orthodox circles I spent 21 years in.  Perhaps they&#039;re out there, but not widespread.  This particular issue is much bigger than Aish, and even ultra-orthodoxy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s the only view; and I agree that the &#8220;life or death&#8221; bit is a special twisted Aish touch.  But I&#8217;ve never encountered the &#8220;it&#8217;s more complicated&#8221; views in any of the modern Orthodox circles I spent 21 years in.  Perhaps they&#8217;re out there, but not widespread.  This particular issue is much bigger than Aish, and even ultra-orthodoxy.</p>
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		<title>By: DK</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-697516</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 02:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-697516</guid>
		<description>&quot;that’s classic halacha.&quot;

There are different opinions on what constitutes a cohen today, as it is easily corrupted, and this is NOT so simple.

Calling it a life and death situation is abysmal. 

Insisting it is a black and white situation to Jews from Liberal backgrounds, where interfaith dating is the norm, is yet another proof of why ultra-Orthodoxy is absolutely inappropriate and inherently insensitive.

Having said that, people should know what Aish is advocating, and the misery it will cause cohanim from secular and unaffiliated backgrounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;that’s classic halacha.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are different opinions on what constitutes a cohen today, as it is easily corrupted, and this is NOT so simple.</p>
<p>Calling it a life and death situation is abysmal. </p>
<p>Insisting it is a black and white situation to Jews from Liberal backgrounds, where interfaith dating is the norm, is yet another proof of why ultra-Orthodoxy is absolutely inappropriate and inherently insensitive.</p>
<p>Having said that, people should know what Aish is advocating, and the misery it will cause cohanim from secular and unaffiliated backgrounds.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca M</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-697515</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 02:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-697515</guid>
		<description>DK-- while many liberal Jews have strong and legit objections to those Kohen rules, that&#039;s classic halacha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DK&#8211; while many liberal Jews have strong and legit objections to those Kohen rules, that&#8217;s classic halacha.</p>
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		<title>By: Reb Yudel</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-697514</link>
		<dc:creator>Reb Yudel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 02:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-697514</guid>
		<description>David,

Nothing will make liberal rabbis hate on Aish more than opening non-denominational, low-cost Hebrew schools.

Aish is sensibly following Chabad&#039;s lead in undercutting Reform and Conservative congregations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Nothing will make liberal rabbis hate on Aish more than opening non-denominational, low-cost Hebrew schools.</p>
<p>Aish is sensibly following Chabad&#8217;s lead in undercutting Reform and Conservative congregations.</p>
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		<title>By: DK</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-697513</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 01:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-697513</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a fresh new post explaining to Liberal Jews that who are kohens that they are forbidden to marry a woman who had sex with a gentile, she has the Jewish law status of &quot;whore,&quot; and that this is a life and death issue. 

How is this helpful? Why should people be allowed to drive our youth nuts like this? Why does Liberal and mainstream Jewry fund and work with this fanatical organization that, if their directions are followed, drive people nuts?

http://www.aish.com/atr/Kohen_Marriages.html

&quot;A Kohen is forbidden to marry these women, not because she is a bad person, but because there is metaphysical reality that is created which prevents a Kohen from being able to create the proper bond. Consider that H2O is water, and H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide. The difference may seem negligible, but is actually the difference is between life and death&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a fresh new post explaining to Liberal Jews that who are kohens that they are forbidden to marry a woman who had sex with a gentile, she has the Jewish law status of &#8220;whore,&#8221; and that this is a life and death issue. </p>
<p>How is this helpful? Why should people be allowed to drive our youth nuts like this? Why does Liberal and mainstream Jewry fund and work with this fanatical organization that, if their directions are followed, drive people nuts?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aish.com/atr/Kohen_Marriages.html" rel="nofollow">www.aish.com/atr/Kohen_Marriages.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;A Kohen is forbidden to marry these women, not because she is a bad person, but because there is metaphysical reality that is created which prevents a Kohen from being able to create the proper bond. Consider that H2O is water, and H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide. The difference may seem negligible, but is actually the difference is between life and death&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca M</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-697512</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 01:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-697512</guid>
		<description>So far I&#039;m aware of a few people with roots in the DC Jewish community (myself included) who wrote in to the Washington Post about this piece.  I&#039;m hoping for a response, but would settle for increased consciousness on the part of the editors. Also increased copy-editing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So far I&#8217;m aware of a few people with roots in the DC Jewish community (myself included) who wrote in to the Washington Post about this piece.  I&#8217;m hoping for a response, but would settle for increased consciousness on the part of the editors. Also increased copy-editing.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca M</title>
		<link>http://jewschool.com/2012/04/30/28521/big-aish-in-the-washington-post/comment-page-1/#comment-697511</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 01:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewschool.com/?p=28521#comment-697511</guid>
		<description>Rjacu-- I&#039;m glad you didn&#039;t experience any brainwashing during your Aish experiences.  Can you see how that does not change the fact that others, such as DK, have had much more negative experiences? 

As for myself, I dodged the worst of it, but saw enough to get the heebie-jeebies.  My high school brought in Aish lecturers twice, and both made a hard sell-- slick, savvy presentations about how a fundamentalist form of Judaism is both incontrovertibly true, and the only thing standing between us and a savage nihilistic abyss. Highlights included: 1)Jews saved the whole world from being gay baby-killers, and 2) One must believe in the Torah, because the Torah reports a revelation witnessed by multitudes.  

I&#039;m grateful that my exposure was limited, that I had a sense of *wrongness* I couldn&#039;t articulate yet, and that my Talmud teacher quietly encouraged myself and others to be skeptical (since the rest of the administration and staff seemed on board).  Also grateful that I encountered profound Jewish experiences elsewhere, so I realized no one group had a patent.  

Yes, I&#039;ve heard of Aish hosting warm joyful shabbat dinners like no one&#039;s business.  But they use these experiences as bait and aren&#039;t necessarily upfront about what they want to get you hooked on.  

(I&#039;m not addressing Chabad here, since my experiences have so far all been: sweet people who see the world so differently than me that it&#039;s hard to find a common language.  But I&#039;ve never yet been afraid they were out for my soul.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rjacu&#8211; I&#8217;m glad you didn&#8217;t experience any brainwashing during your Aish experiences.  Can you see how that does not change the fact that others, such as DK, have had much more negative experiences? </p>
<p>As for myself, I dodged the worst of it, but saw enough to get the heebie-jeebies.  My high school brought in Aish lecturers twice, and both made a hard sell&#8211; slick, savvy presentations about how a fundamentalist form of Judaism is both incontrovertibly true, and the only thing standing between us and a savage nihilistic abyss. Highlights included: 1)Jews saved the whole world from being gay baby-killers, and 2) One must believe in the Torah, because the Torah reports a revelation witnessed by multitudes.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m grateful that my exposure was limited, that I had a sense of *wrongness* I couldn&#8217;t articulate yet, and that my Talmud teacher quietly encouraged myself and others to be skeptical (since the rest of the administration and staff seemed on board).  Also grateful that I encountered profound Jewish experiences elsewhere, so I realized no one group had a patent.  </p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;ve heard of Aish hosting warm joyful shabbat dinners like no one&#8217;s business.  But they use these experiences as bait and aren&#8217;t necessarily upfront about what they want to get you hooked on.  </p>
<p>(I&#8217;m not addressing Chabad here, since my experiences have so far all been: sweet people who see the world so differently than me that it&#8217;s hard to find a common language.  But I&#8217;ve never yet been afraid they were out for my soul.)</p>
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