Israel’s Bargaining Chips
I am sure you are all aware of the bargaining over bodies that took place after the APC bombing in Gaza. Palestinian militants were using pieces of bodies as “bargaining chips.” Now check out this article, published on April 9th, a while before all those terrible events happened in Gaza:
The army also wishes apparently to have “bargaining chips” in case Israeli soldiers are killed in action or attacks the Gaza Strip.
I guess we now know who set the rules of the game.
asaf once again attempts to place his former country in the worst possible light: the article refers to the occassional burial of SUICIDE BOMBERS in israeli burial sites; nowhere is there any indication that israel has done to that to nonterrorists. once agains asaf,you are stretching to try and create moral equivalency between terrorists and israel. why dont just be a good little boy and attend your nice classes in the nice united states and revel in your escape from the daily horrors your former fellow citizens in israel have to put up with daily.
I don’t get it. He lives in the U.S. and doesn’t get to criticize Israel, but you live in the U.S. and you get to defend it to high heaven? Why do you, Avi, according to your logic, have any more right to talk about Israel than he does?
Personally I think you both have equal right to express an opinion. Moreover, since the State of Israel claims to act in the name of Am Yisrael (Sharon never talks about defending “Israelis”, it’s always “Jews”), I think that ALL Jews have a right to criticize its actions if they want. That just seems obvious to me. I’d like to hear a reasoned opinion otherwise.
avi, the article was talking about palestinians who died in clashes, not specifically suicide bombers – that is, also in very similar cases to what happened in gaza. So the army is dealing with palestinian militant’s bodies while the jihad and hamas are dealing with israeli soldier’s bodies. what is the difference?
this is NOt occasional burial – its bargaining over the dead, something we accuse the palestinians of.
Stop reading selectively the article. Its all there. I even added a quote to the original post.
asaf, realize english is your second language, so ill paste the applicable sentence from the article: The sources said holding the bodies in Israel was meant to serve as a deterrent to other potential suicide bombers. See the use of “other potential suicide bombers” asaf. suggest you spiff up your enlish before taking your first exam. have a nice easy, worry free terrorist free life in the us of a.
and sam, of course asaf has the right to critique israel, its the extensive and exclusive and tortured critique that triggers my antipathy towards him, he walked away from his fellows, who have to face death and murder every day in terrorist ridden israel, hes now luxuriating in the very nice and easy usa, does asaf have the MORAL position to engage in vituperative objections to israel? i dont think so.
avi green, you dont have an excuse, because your english seems fine. The sentence u quote refers to the specific cases mentioned above. On the other hand, the article talks in general about a change in POLICY. the two examples given were indeed about suicide bombers, but if u read it, it talks about palestinian militnats who died in clashes as well- just like israeli soldiers.
Well Avi, you again refuse to acknowledge that your situation is identical to Asaf’s. He was born there by no choice of his own. Why doesn’t he have the right to live in the USA, while you who were born here do? More to the point, you who think the Israeli Occupation army is defending the lives of Jews and believe that not serving is “walking away from your fellows”, should be on the next plane to Israel. If you believe this so strongly why not become a citizen and join the army, instead of spouting empty, self-righteous slogans.
By contrast, Asaf didn’t just talk – he acted. He feels the army is immoral so he walked away rather than do the easy thing and follow the crowd. He gave up many things making that decision. You give up nothing and just blow out hot air. The fact that he is being rewarded for his moral decision by enjoying life in America, doesn’t make his decision less moral.
I won’t even get into the fact that by encouraging Israeli militarism and US support for Sharon’s crimes, the blood of innocent Israelis (and of course Palestinians) are on your hands.
Avi Green: It is just plan FUCK UP that you attack Asaf’s English skills. When did your family come over to this country? How long did it take them to learn English? This nation, if you have forgotten, was founded by, built by, and is currently fuelled by, IMMIGRANTS. If your argument is so weak, that you resort to attack them man’s English skills instead of his argument, don’t bother posting anything.
Personally, sounds like Israel started playing dirty. I’m fine with that, as long as Israel or her supports don’t bitch when the Pals play dirty. Fine, Avi doesn’t like it and his opinion shows in his post. Big frickin’ deal. He chose not to serve in the IDF and I doubt, after such a decision, he will change his entire worldview based on your ranting at him. And your ranting certainty isn’t helping you win any supporters.
solomyr, youre so right, youve convinced me: because the israelis are burying some of the bodies of terrorists on israeli soil, the palestinians are justified in: murdering little jewish babies, pulling apart the dead bodies of israeli soldiers and exhibiting body parts to approving crowds, beating 13 year old hiking boys to death, blowing up teen pizza hangouts, blowing up shuls. im not going to bitch when the pals play dirty, because the jews brough it on themselves by burying those suicide bombers on israeli territory. bad israelis, good palestinians, yeah for moral relativism. love your ethics, solomry!
Furthermore, that last post should read “FUCKED UP”. Like I was saying, how many generations does it take for a family to learn Anglish…
Furthermore, that last post should read “FUCKED UP”. Like I was saying, how many generations does it take for a family to learn Anglish…
Avi since you missed the side by side comparison of the matter of burial actions (if we hold bodies, they should be allowed to hold bodies) and stretched that into me somehow giving the Pals my blessing regarding their choice of violence over negotiations, I am forced to conclude three (3) things:
1) You don’t listen to any thing but the running dialogue in your thick skull;
2) You ain’t getting’ any lovin’
3) If you are getting some lovin’, you give it rough.
Hehe, alright, so I’m trying to stoke your fires and piss you off, but really, I doubt that will work, seeing as how you don’t actually read the posts, but merely the words and fill in the rest with what you want to hear. Because dude, I’m for the most part, on your side. I just take serious offense at your methods, and how you treat your fellow posts.
For the record Avi, my opinion is that Golda said it best: “We will have peace with the Arabs when they will love their children more then they hate usâ€. While Israel could do more with their side of that equation, the fault and greatest responsibility lies with the Arabs.
I’m sorry this isn’t related to this specific post, but I think its interesting. It counters the activist tactics that plague much of the left and it explains why so many Jews have made a rightward shift…or at least it starts to explain it. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/428657.html
As General Patton said, “G-D should have mercy on my enemies, because I wont.” If you want Israel to survive, and I mean survive, you must hit harder. At the same time I am of the beliefe that if the Palistinians wanted to live in peace with Israel, they would in the blink of an eye.
I’ll swing to the left now and expand upon your comments, raiders. The problem, when you say “the Palestinians†is not that you’re taking a huge group of people and referring to them as if they only have one voice. Indeed, while it’s real easy to find a Jew openly critical of Israel (the state, the policies, the leaders, and/or the people), finding such a person in the Palestinian sphere is much more difficult. Which represents my issue by saying “the Palestiniansâ€.
Have you seen those poor people’s leadership? I when I look at the leadership, I really feel sorry for them. On a theoretical level, if they don’t like their leaders, they should overthrow them (and they should). Problem is the same leadership that has treated the general population so poorly, has also brainwashed them to believe that all the problems are the fault of Israel and the US. I too believe that in general “the Palestinians†want to live in peace, no matter who their neighbors are. Problem is the leadership, and if we could just kill a few more of them…
Well, I think killing Arafat would be counter-productive, but it’s so tempting…
It’s also true, with the most recent U.S. example being post-9/11, that when people’s leadership and society are endangered they tend to rally around the leadership and support it, regardless of how stupid it is. And the Palestinian leadership is, well, pretty much always endangered. Murder makes martyrs.
when people’s leadership and society are endangered they tend to rally around the leadership and support it, regardless of how stupid it is.
Wait, so you’re saying that caricaturing people and making them feel like they’re backed into a corner is more likely to lead them to rally around their (incorrect) leaders, then to revolt against them?
Now, about that “ethnic cleansing”…
this whole thing is a joke, it’s just another example of a Jew that hates himself and wishes he didn’t have to be Jewish… I wonder how he feels about those Arabs who put their babies in front of Jewish tanks so the soldiers (who they know will feel for the babies) come out to be shot…
ain’t no enemy of the Jews like a self-hating Jew.
and if people hate their leadership so much they change it.. don’t tell me they can’t.
Go lookit all those thousands of Arabs dancing in the streets during 9/11 or even when Hatuel and her four daughters got shot as an example of what you’re dealing with, then go look at who you feel bad for because it’s politically correct.