Mi casa es mi casa
UNWRA and OCHA published a report stating that “the Israel Defense Forces have demolished 1,497 homes in various refugee camps and neighborhoods in the Rafah area.” And this is only in the Rafah area.. (The article also states that 3,437 Palestinians and 942 Israelis were killed since Sept. 2000)
Since the beginning of the intifada, “[s]ome 15,000 people have been rendered homeless by the demolitions, and of these roughty 82 percent were refugees.” Damn. While it seems that the IDF is getting better at stopping suicide attacks, it’s statistics show a rise in the number of terrorist attempts. Lets get it straight – demolishing one’s house does not stop terror. Moreover, it is a form of terror. Another Haaretz articles, though, gives us some good news:
Some 400 rabbis from numerous countries, including Israel, who participated this week in Toronto in a meeting of the Central Conference of American Rabbis (CCAR), are expected to decide that the home demolitions contradict the “vision articulated in the declaration of independence, when it described the state as one that ‘will be based on freedom, justice and peace, as envisioned by the prophets of Israel.'”
Considering the fact that most palestinians cannot even get permits to built on their own land, and that house demolitions of terrorist’s families is a form of collective punishment, I think this is a brave and important declaration.
“While it seems that the IDF is getting better at stopping suicide attacks”
“Lets get it straight – demolishing one’s house does not stop terror”
Care to reconcile the two statements?
THe house demolition is supposed to be a deterrent. It doesnt help deterring -as i showed, the attempts are rising. So it aint working.
in any case, any report by IDF never mentions house demolition as effecting amount of suicide attacks.
Well, you never said its not deterring terror, you just wrote its not stopping terror
have you considered that one reason fewer attacks are successful maybe because Palestinians, who fear their home will be demolished, are informing the IDF of suspicious activity?
This is something that israel wouldnt be making public because it would discourage other pals from informing.
It is important to note that these 400 Rabbis are reform Rabbis whose left wing agenda overrides Torah law, as always.
What proof do the UN have that Tzahal (IDF) demolished all these home? It is a proven fact that the Arabs often destroy their own homes for propaganda or compensationary reasons.
Asaf,
please stop spouting the myths you read in the leftist Israeli media, or at least do the blog a favour and read all the news and not only what fits your opinion.
The Palestinian shofar Haaretz and its star Palestinian reporter Amira Hass describes how demolishing houses is a very strong deterrent
Haaretz: IDF destruction of houses causes Rafah residents to battle smugglers
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/438637.html
Then, you can read another Haaretz article about how not a single Arab house would need to be torn down if the Egyptians would abide by the peace treaty (but you and I know that Egypt couldn’t care less for ‘Palestinians’):
Egyptian refusal to stop smuggling forces Israel to launch major operation in Rafah
http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/2003/israel/10/0310100705.html
We already know that UNWRA is not objective and that Al-Jezeera reports without commentary that Palestinians are destroying some of the home sthemselves to get compensation:
http://tinylink.com/?NjbVdsPBRb
Asaf, the facts please, not emotional mumbo-jumbo.
Shalom and Josh:
Hate to break Godwin’s law, especially on this website, but do you happen to remember who was officially blamed for Kristallnacht?? OH YEAH – it was the JEWS!! That kind of thinking is never safe.
It may be debatable whether or not demolishing the houses is a worthwhile or moral activity for the IDF, but come on, the Arabs are destroying their own houses?
and I can’t believe you’re referring me to an al-Jazeera site…isn’t a-J usually anathema for people with your point of view?? Oh yeah, the source for the accusation Israeli politicians. And they offer absolutely no proff except their own oh-so-unbiased opinion.
I really respect the opposing views here, but that kind of accusation seems pretty hideous to me. How do you think Jews fely being accused of vandalizing and/or burning their own shuls, homes and businesses?
“but do you happen to remember who was officially blamed for Kristallnacht?? OH YEAH – it was the JEWS!! That kind of thinking is never safe. ”
Holy tortured logic.
That is all.
RJF, I have never come across such a claim that Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht. But that is totally irellevant. The truth is that the Arabs do demolish their own homes and property. I am saying this based on fact, whereas you base your statement merely on intellect. If underestimate the Arabs to this extent your intellect is obviously warped.
Regarding effictiveness of house demolitions:
IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Moshe Ya’alon has defended the destruction of terrorists’ houses, saying Sunday that neighbors and family members of Palestinian would-be suicide bombers have often come forward with information to prevent the pending attacks, in an effort to spare their homes from demolition.
http://tinylink.com/?4cNkLKRcFI
Regarding increase in sucide bombings:
Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz on Tuesday said the recent drop in the number of terror attacks stems from a changing trend in the abilities of terror groups.
“We are seeing a new trend. The level of terror is slowly declining. We must keep up the offensive operations. The pressure is working. The motivation of terror organizations is high, yet their capabilities have substantially decreased,” Mofaz said during a briefing with senior officers at the Israel Defense Forces’ Central
The senior officers during the briefing pointed to a 75 percent decrease in suicide attacks and attempted suicide attacks during the first half of 2004, in comparison with the corresponding period last year
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/442018.html
As for Palestinians demolishing their own houses: while I don’t have a link to it, I remember seeing an article where the author describes seeing Palestinians damaging roofs and walls in Rafah (after the IDF operation) to be able to claim compensation damages. How common that is, I don’t know, but it happens
Why do we trust UNWRA’s numbers?
And to all our conservative friends, liberals, leftists, and people with problem-solving ideas that you don’t necessarily like are not the enemy.
why all the quotes here are of Army generals??
Do you really trust the lies of mofaz and yaalon? you know how many times the army has been exposed with its lies? house demolishing is not only for terrorists! Most of them arent.
Do you know how many times the Arabs and the leftist media has been exposed with its lies?
Arab media – agreed.
Israeli and American media – show me .
“have you considered that one reason fewer attacks are successful maybe because Palestinians, who fear their home will be demolished, are informing the IDF of suspicious activity?
This is something that israel wouldnt be making public because it would discourage other pals from informing.”
so how do u know this jimbo?
I dont know this for a fact. But its something to consider.
1) Israel has used many different tactics to try and prevent successful terrorist attacks.
2) Since then, there have been fewer successful terrorist attacks.
While it isnt a certainty that these methods are whats working, it does seem to be the logical conclusion. Those on the left claimed that all these measures wouldnt help prevent terrorism. Now that there are far fewer successful attacks I think the burden is on you to prove that it is not these tactic that are preventing terror..
You cant have it both ways.
Jimbo, you give way too much credit to the IDF. house demolition is a practice used by the occupation forces even during the first intifada. they sed to demolish houses for people who threw molotov bottles. there is no strategy behind that. in jerusalem u cant get a house permit so if u dont want to live under the sky, u have to built illegal house which is then torn down. what does this have to do with security?
While it was quite difficult to figure out what youre saying in the above comment, I think I get it. (btw, what happened, youre writing is usually alright?)
I also think youre forgetting that a large number of these houses that were demolished were in an effort to uncover smuggling tunnels from Egypt, and homes of people related/associated with terrorists.
Bottom line: The IDF says it will demolish houses to prevent terror attacks, you say it wont work; terror attack decrease after implementation, you lose. Hey, if the IDF said it would happen, and it happens, the burden is on you to prove otherwise.
Many of these homes were destroyed because they were being used to manufacture bombs, had tunnels underneath them, or were used by terrorist groups. I see no moral reason why the Israeli army should not destroy these homes.
However, I do think that collective punishment is an entirely different matter.
Jimbo, when i write fast (i am at work now) i write with a lot of mistakes.
“Bottom line: The IDF says it will demolish houses to prevent terror attacks, you say it wont work; terror attack decrease after implementation, you lose. Hey, if the IDF said it would happen, and it happens, the burden is on you to prove otherwise.”
Lets play the game – identify the logical fallacy.
I just played. There are none. (if you would like, i can explain the term “logical fallacy” to you).
In case you misread my above post, i am not saying that I know for a certainty that it is the IDFs policies that are working (“While it isnt a certainty that these methods are whats working” Jimbo • 06/25/04 10:36am) it is the reasonable conclusion, and thus, the burden falls on you to prove otherwise.
Asaf, lies in the left wing media include the fake photos of ‘abuse’ by British soldiers in The Mirror and the Tovia Grossman story as well as the countless times they have used biased opinion as fact.
Oh, and I’m sure that the booby-trapped houses that fall when you get too near to them are also included in the UN count.