19 thoughts on “Now Look What You've Gone And Done…

  1. i imagine that our grandkids will look back at the post-armageddon land once known as israel and be fully aware that george bush and his religious fundamentalist supporters were most definitely NOT friends of the jewish people.

  2. If only we right-wing jews were not so ignorant and simple minded we surely would see what is already clear to our sophisticated liberal brethren.
    Perhaps if we attended your communist, muslim-loving rallies we would be privy to such knowledge and insight, and realize how bad bush really is for the jews and the world.

  3. 178’s post is a little over the top, but the point is well taken. You can not like Bush, but those marches – and especially organizing groups such as United for Peace and Justice and ANSWER – are filled with blatantly anti-semitic hateful kooks.
    To stand with them, regardless of the shared disdain for the President for whatever reason, is shameful.
    There is no difference between the hate and anti-Semitism of the anarchist/progressive left, the Islamists, and the Nazi/fascist right.
    At some point the moishe oofniks (and apparently the mobius types too) of the world need to come to grips with that.
    Don’t believe me?Filter through the crowd and see how many of those marchers for peace condemn the piguim in Beersheva and how many celebrate them as resistence.

  4. I’m no fan of International ANSWER, and they (or at least their parent organization) definitely are communists. But not everybody unhappy about and opposed to the settlements in the West Bank are communists. And, may I point out that it’s odd that someone who dislikes communism supports a movement which is heavily subsidized by the Israeli government? The settlers aren’t exactly fancy-free pioneers with no ties, you know.
    As for the “muslim-loving” comment — I’d rather be “muslim-loving” than a hate-mongering narrow-minded fanatic. There are plenty of those on the side of the terrorists, but why must you be like them?

  5. Indeed. Speaking as a left-winger and an outsider to the U.S. political debate — one who is appalled both by Bush and by the truly dumb approaches to criticising his party’s policies that seem to amount to name-calling and toilet humour — I think some people here are unfairly distorting the left.
    It’s true that there are some particularly noisy elements of the left wing who are particularly visible in the Jewish world. Heck, we’ve got Brown Babylonian’s headling reposting service right here on this blog.
    But it’s just not fair to lump the left together with its racist fringe, any more than it would be to lump the right together with the KKK or something. Quite a lot of us have no common truck with ANSWER: disagreeing with them certainly does not require agreeing with the Republican Party’s approach to U.S. policy.

  6. My point is being missed or denied. Regarding webmacher’s post, I’m not sure exactly who you are replying to. You reference my reference to ANSWER, but also include the *muslim-loving* comment. I neither love or hate muslims, I really have no opinion about them as a group or their religion. I personally have a beef with Islamists, those who adhere to a politicized form if Islam which has shown itself to be an evil, oppressive ideology. See Iran, Sudan, etc.
    As far as 8opus, I don’t think I am distorting the left at all, rather, I think you are in a bit of denail about your fellow travellers. I’ve had my share of close encounters wit the Left – I went to school at Berkeley and lived in the SF Bay Area for a number of years.
    That those who claim to disavow Int’l ANSWER, U for P and J, etc. are unable to mount any type of coherent and cohesive statement of principle or belief without those groups or their ilk speaks for itself.
    The Left has a serious problem with hate and anti-Semitism, but spends so much time telling itself that it is anti-hate and anti-racism it is blind.
    The Emporer Wears No Clothes.
    I am left with the image in my mind of a photo printed in the LA Times last month during the DNC. It was a snapshot of a protest outside of the Dem Convention (!). One person held a large peace symbol sign, one held a “free Palestine” sign, and one held a sign reading “SUPPORT THE IRAQI RESISTANCE.”
    Unfairly distorting indeed.

  7. Well gee, it would be much better for Jews to ally themselves with right-wing Christian fundie nutbars who only support Israel so that Armageddon can come and all us Jews can go to hell (or accept Christ as our personal saviour).

  8. As far as 8opus, I don’t think I am distorting the left at all, rather, I think you are in a bit of denail about your fellow travellers.
    With respect, I don’t know why you insist on telling me who my fellow travellers have to be.
    That those who claim to disavow Int’l ANSWER, U for P and J, etc. are unable to mount any type of coherent and cohesive statement of principle or belief without those groups or their ilk speaks for itself.
    That’s just not true. As to coherent and cohesive statements of principle: if you mean statements as to the Arab-Israeli conflict, such statements have been made by the left many times before and by many groups, ranging from here on this Web site to various political parties in Israel. It is fairly simple: Jews and Palestinians both have the right to self-determination, both israel and Palestine have the right to exist side by side in peace and in security, and the only path forward consists in identifying ways to make that happen.
    Which means neither spending all one’s time bleating about how such a thing is impossible (it’s not) nor sticking one’s head in the sand and believing that security is a problem that can be imagined away (it can’t). This is basically a left-wing Zionist stance. It’s true that the anti-Zionist fringe has essentially silenced the rest of the left and given left wing politics a bad name among many Jews. (See, for instance, Brown Babylonian’s campaign of selective cutting and pasting.) But that’s confusing a part for a whole — and imagining a unity that isn’t there.
    The Left has a serious problem with hate and anti-Semitism, but spends so much time telling itself that it is anti-hate and anti-racism it is blind. Obviously there are left-wing groups who are blatantly racist. Only hypocritical left-wingers who are as impervious to criticism as they stereotype Jews as being would deny that. But, uUnfairly distorting indeed: absolutely. You’re not unfairly distorting the folks you saw; you’re incorrectly generalising, assuming that everyone on the left thinks they’re the gospel.
    Well, no.

  9. Well gee, it would be much better for Jews to ally themselves with right-wing Christian fundie nutbars who only support Israel so that Armageddon can come and all us Jews can go to hell (or accept Christ as our personal saviour).
    Possibly. Better yet, though, would be to ally with neither. Why is that such a radical idea?

  10. “The Left has a serious problem with hate and anti-Semitism, but spends so much time telling itself that it is anti-hate and anti-racism it is blind. ”
    I’ve gone to peace marches where I saw some signs with statements that were very hateful and which made me very angry. Certainly, there is that element on the left side of the spectrum. But there are also a lot of people who disavow such tactics and have a peaceful message. If you actually go and read any left-wing blogs or discussion boards, you’ll see that there are lots of different opinions, and that people do speak out against this kind of thing. (Even on IndyMedia sites!) There isn’t really a monolithic, organized Left, which is why progressives aren’t in office in greater numbers and we have Dubya for president.
    But if you think hatred is the exclusive property of the Left, you are the one who is blind. From the trolls on this site, to the guy at the RNC handing out “Purple Heart bandaids” to the pandering of the Republican party to anti-gay prejudice, to the hate speech by Rush Limbaugh and others of his ilk… the list goes on. And unfortunately, we currently have an administration who is happy to play to our worst instincts instead of appealing to our “better natures.”
    I don’t know who said “muslim-loving” (people do post with nicknames and sometimes use somebody else’s) but somebody did, and they meant that it was a Bad Thing. If that’s not hateful and nasty, I don’t know what is. It sounds a bit like something from the KKK. Hey, if you want to sound like that or condone it, you’ve got some self-examination to do before pointing fingers.
    I don’t like hate speech, period. I don’t care if it’s on the left or right.

  11. mmm, hate is such an interesting concept. i look at muslims TARGETING women and children for murder. i hear on kpfk (la) that arabs are not allowed to vote in israel, and that yom kippur is a celebration of the defeat of the palestinian arabs; i read on littlegreenfootballs.com article after article in the official egyptian and saudi press confirming the accuracy of the protocol of zion; and that jews drink arab and christian blood for passover; i see pictures of “peace marches” on cspan, and in virtually every one there are banners proclaiming that sharon is a murderer and that israel equals nazism. interestingly, i have never seen their equivalent in israel or in any pro israeli march/demonstration. but hey, were all =, all equally good/bad, so there is no difference between the jews and the islamofascts, right?

  12. and then here I am, smoking the shisha at lunch with my office neighbour Mansour from Cairo, listening to Sarit Hadad with Samir (the CD was his) from Jaffa, smoking Cuban cigars on Bourbon street with Yussuf from Beirut, doing a Web site for Omar’s surf shop (he’s from Tripoli), helping Hammad with his Iraqui Shiite mosque’s Web site.
    They ALL know I am a Jew and an Israeli. They all know I am a hardcore Zionist. And yet we get along just fine.Go figure. Nothing is as black and white as some of you make it out to be. Not all leftists are foaming at the mouth Chomskyites. Not all Muslims are suicide bombers. If I were American I would stand back in amazement at how polarized American society has become – it’s remarkable really. I don’t care if you are a leftist or you are a rightist, if you are an asshole, your political orientation does not matter.
    By the way, I got a 179 on MY LSAT. Punk.

  13. People who target women and children are bad human beings, and if they’re Muslims, they’re bad Muslims. People (and states) who spread poisonous garbage about people of other ethicities or faiths are horrible. But all Muslims should not be judged by the actions of a few… just as I hope nobody assumes all Jews are as screwed up as you are.

  14. “Perhaps if we attended your communist, muslim-loving rallies we would be privy to such knowledge and insight, and realize how bad bush really is for the jews and the world.”
    LSAT178, you sound like a nazi.

  15. human life is more important than who has a right to do what or who has valid political backing or reasons or whatnot. we are bringing all kinds of opinions to the table, but nothing good will come of it until we can see past them.

  16. What’s that? If George W. is in, Mobius is out?
    Deal! (Two birds with one stone.)
    Beth –
    “we are bringing all kinds of opinions to the table, but nothing good will come of it until we can see past them.”
    “LSAT178, you sound like a nazi.”
    Next time, try not post things like these within 30 minutes of each other. It could come off as incoherent. Of course, if you don’t appreciate my pointing this out, feel free to call me a Nazi (remember to capitalize it next time) too.

  17. How does the jewish community react to a jewish girl loving a muslim boy, and the other way around?
    I am born a christian, i become a muslim more than 5 years ago, my decendants fled the war in germany, my bloodline is not known to be of a particular faith of that time, but i have met a jewish girl who i love and her parents dont like me cause im muslim, i cant throw my faith away, and i dont expect her to either? so advice would be great!!

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