shoko cham
Aryeh Cohen breaks it down with a fine riff on diaspora life.
And so here we are: probably the most learned, most affluent, most politically powerful Jewish community in the history of the world, and we are tied up in knots about who we are. The borders of accepted speech are assiduously patrolled by self-appointed guardians of the walls. (I have a file of hate mail, letter after letter of people comparing me to a kapo, and I am far from alone in this.) The public domain of our institutions and the popular Jewish press has been colonized by the most right wing element in our community. Israel is not a problem for me because my allies on the progressive left think it’s a problem. Israel is a problem because it claims to speak for the Jewish community, and the Jews who speak for it confound and subvert the Judaism that I love and teach — the Judaism that can contribute to creating a better and more just world.
is there any doubt that incite is asaf posting under another name? asaf has been discredited as a muslim convert in the making, so to continue the mobius tradition of anti israeli, anti jewish anti american postings he chooses the name incite. some day some where someone is going to come up with the defective gene that causes the asaf/incite behavior, its probably the same gene in xtains that creates serial killers and child molesters
I honor this guy’s IDF service, but remain perplexed how he and other progressives cannot see that they are exactly like the so-called right wing jews he holds contempt for, in the sense of paying lip service to diversity if you will and then proclaiming one’s own beliefs as the “true judaism.” He decries the right’s (and Israel’s) definition of Judaism and speaking for our community, and then proceeds to essentialize true judaism as he sees it – the actualization of progressive politics with a big star of david stamped on it. How odd and very sad.
Israel is a problem because it claims to speak for the Jewish community, and the Jews who speak for it confound and subvert the Judaism that I love and teach — the Judaism that can contribute to creating a better and more just world.
ha! who is this avi green fellow? he’s very clever!
LOM –
actually, i don’t think cohen “proclaims his own beliefs as the “true judaism” as you put it. in fact, he calls the diveristy of opinion w/i diaspora jewry “a sign of vitality”
“As the ultimate insider-outsiders, we are in a position to create alliances across the necessarily permeable intellectual and physical boundaries of our communities. While I wish those alliances were all for progressive ends, it is a sign of the vitality of our community that while the Progressive Jewish Alliance forms coalitions with Latino and Asian-Pacific human rights groups to eradicate sweatshops, the legal arm of Agudath Israel coalitions with conservative groups in favor of school vouchers.”
most progressives – myself included – don’t believe there is a “true judaism.” there are conservative and liberal traditions w/i judaism. sexism and egalitarianism are both part of judaism. the question is, as cohen puts it, which “judaism do i love and teach?” he never says this judaism is true and his opponents’ judaism is false. in the debates among the religious movements, i can’t remember ever hearing liberals claim that conservative, traditional, orthodox jews were not practicing “true judaism,” however the reverse happens all the time.
” i can’t remember ever hearing liberals claim that conservative, traditional, orthodox jews were not practicing “true judaism,” however the reverse happens all the time”
Heh. When I applied to JTS back in ’94, I was a Conservative thumping love child. However when I realized that there was no one, no one between the ages of 4 – 59 anyway, to study torah with on a Sat afternoon, I was forced to daven/study/hang with Modern Ortho folks. And hence I was drawn to traditional Judaism.
And by the way incite (Ohhhhhh, thats so Johnny Rotten), my Conservative colleagues had no problem taking pot shots at the Ortho folks every chance they had. Hell, they defined who they were by describing what parts of Orthodoxy they did’t agree with.
Incite, could you elaborate on what he means by “Zionist myth?”
Thanks.
I can speculate as to what he means. Typically when folks use that phrase they mean the stuff most folks get taught in hebrew school as a kid. eg: all of the palestinians left Israel voluntarily in ’48. the myth of israeli innocence/purity/righteousness.
shtreimel –
that’s fair. i think you’re right that the liberal movements are often openly antagonistic toward more traditional/conservative/orthodox jews. but that is different from liberals saying that what the orthodox etc… practice isn’t “true judaism.” liberals may look down on the orthodox (mostly because they are viewed as rejecting modernity), but they don’t doubt their authenticity. in fact, too often they think traditional observance is a good measure of authenticity (this is very true among secular israelis, often true among liberal american jews).
What, is there a machine which just grinds this stuff out? I swear to God I have read this very same article in about a thousand different publications under a thousand different authors. In fact, I’ll bet if you go to Counterpunch you could find a couple of hundred versions right off the bat.
The borders of accepted speech are assiduously patrolled by self-appointed guardians of the walls. (I have a file of hate mail, letter after letter of people comparing me to a kapo, and I am far from alone in this.)
It’s always fun to hear about the passive-voice (it’s always in the passive voice) “I am harangued by e-mail”, which is usually accompanied by a note that they are keeping a special archive. Call it a trophy.
Suggestion: suck it up. Sometimes people say pretty nasty things. Sometimes their words are downright hostile. Unless they represent someone important, well, I think a good thing to do is ignore the mail. I mean, I dared once to respond to some random the-Jews-are-censoring-me e-mail on an academic listserv, and the dirty-Zionist e-mails started pouring in.
Luckily, I’m not so stupid as to think that that represents the left. Nor did I store ’em up and look around for the first forum in which to flaunt this startling insight.
Sometimes people are pricks. So it goes.
Israel is not a problem for me because my allies on the progressive left think it’s a problem. Israel is a problem because it claims to speak for the Jewish community
See, I just don’t get that. Israel no more claims to speak for the Jewish community than Greece claims to speak for the Greek community, Italy for the Italian community, or Armenia for the Armenian community.
Yet — and I know this will be a great shock — the Greek- and Italian- and Armenian-Montrealers I know are not dumbfounded when the governments of their respective homelands say something idiotic. They just figure that governments are not supreme councils, only politicos who usually fuck things out.
That seems like a more realistic view to me. I mean, I think it’s great that Aryeh Cohen’s expectations of the Israeli government are so far beyond the rest of the world’s; I just think they’re neither reasonable nor a very good target to aim for. A better one: targetting Israeli policies if you disagree with some of them, either writing for or marketing really good or starting new Jewish news publications if you’re unhappy with some of them, and so on.
Like, Jewschool seems to be a good idea.
See, I just don’t get that. Israel no more claims to speak for the Jewish community than Greece claims to speak for the Greek community, Italy for the Italian community, or Armenia for the Armenian community.
Yet — and I know this will be a great shock — the Greek- and Italian- and Armenian-Montrealers I know are not dumbfounded when the governments of their respective homelands say something idiotic. They just figure that governments are not supreme councils, only politicos who usually fuck things out.
in what way is the relationship of jews to israel the same as greek-montrealers relationship to greece? greek-montrealers are immigrants who lived (or who grandparents, etc… once lived) in greece. Most jews have no family connection to the modern State of Israel, never lived there, and are not decended from anyone who ever did live there.
so, maybe the greek canadians don’t care what greece does, or don’t feel like it speaks for them, because a) they don’t feel very greek or b) their is little communal pressure to support the greek government or c) no one in canada is paying attention to what is going on in greece!
jews who self identify as jews do care because none of the above apply.
Re: your Zionist myth comment: he must not be very well educated since even Israeli school textbooks contained historical information that contradicts the so called “myth.”
That’s weird. First you argue that Greek-Montrealers are more connected to Greece. Then you argue that Greek-Montrealers are less connected to Greece.
I just don’t get it. But, for the record: the similarity is that, in both cases, Greek-Montrealers regard Greece as an ethnic homeland, and Jewish-Montrealers regard Israel as an ethnic homeland. I didn’t think that this was an unusual idea.
a) they don’t feel very greek or b) their is little communal pressure to support the greek government or c) no one in canada is paying attention to what is going on in greece!
Sigh. Are you for real?
Suggestion: put up a Web site and announce to the world that you’re Greek, the FYROM Macedonians have the right name after all, Turkish-speaking areas should have the right to have schools in their own language and, why not, that the whole Cyprus joining Greece thing is just colonialisation under another name.
See what happens.
jews who self identify as jews do care because none of the above apply.
Er, yes. But, then, none of the above apply to any ethnic community I’ve ever heard of. They certainly apply far less to Greeks than to Jews in this corner of the world, to continue your process.
T_m: “Re: your Zionist myth comment: he must not be very well educated since even Israeli school textbooks contained historical information that contradicts the so called “myth.””
um, not in the schools I went to. T_M where did you go to school in Israel? or can you supply any evidence for that statement?
Uh sure, Asaf. I mean, I only had 30 seconds to Google it since I’m long out of school but why don’t you locate a copy of Volume 2 of From Exile to Independence – The History of the Jewish People in Recent Generations, the 1990 edition, and check out page 312. It quotes Benny Morris and his theories of how Israeli forces evacuated Arabs in 1947-48.
That search led me to discover The Northern Land – Galilee, Golan and the Valleys through the Generations for Upper Grades. The 1999 edition, on page 427 writes,
“Absent present – inhabitants of Arab villages who, during the course of the War of Independence went to live in neighboring villages with the intention of remaining there until the end of the war. Outstanding examples of these are the inhabitants of Ikrit and Biram, two Christian villages near to the Lebanese border, who were evacuated by the Israel Defense Forces during the War of Independence with the promise that they would be able to return to them in a short while… In order to return to their villages the two village committees have applied to the heads of the Israeli administration and to the Supreme Court and have been granted judgments recognizing the justice of their claims. Despite the judgments in their favor and the support given to them by politicians from the whole political spectrum in Israel, the Government has still not expressly decided that they can return to their villages”
Here’s a good example of how they deal with the modern dilemma of territories. This isn’t about the Zionist myth anymore, but reveals a very fair side to the entire debate regarding territories:
Without Offense – Value Dilemmas In Children’s Society, The Right to Respect and the Duty to Respect is the name of a textbook tells 36 stories about events occurring in children’s society involving dilemmas. The book’s editor explains that:
“A dilemma is a situation in which one has to decide between at least two alternative choices of which only one may be chosen. In life in our society dilemmas often relate to cases in which people are likely to be hurt. The question is how to behave in such cases … The guiding rule, with whose help we shall seek solutions to these problems, is that just as I want others to respect my freedom of conduct, so must I respect another’s freedom of conduct and not hurt him” (p.3).
One of the stories deals with a dispute on the future of the Golan Heights.
“‘The peace talks are beginning to move forward. The Palestinians have autonomy, we have an agreement with Jordan and with Egypt things have been alright for a while – there remains a settlement with Syria and they agree to full peace provided that we return to them the Golan Heights’.
“Don’t make me laugh’, said Tali, that’s where our house is. We are not leaving!’
‘Fine, you can stay, if you want to live in Syria!’, Aviv said.
‘It will never happen. They will never return the Heights … The People are with the Golan!’, said Erez excitedly, ‘Look at the demonstrations and the signs on the roofs and the stickers on the cars.’
‘Sticker and demonstrations are something else’, said Aviv. ‘They are needed just to show the world that we will not give it up easily. But when everyone has to decide whether to choose peace or war, then people will think differently. And if you remember, the Prime Minister promised that he would bring peace’.
‘The majority of the people want peace,’ said Sharon.
‘Sure, for them it is easy to give it up,’ Erez said bitterly. ‘It is not their house, not their garden that they have sewed, not their trees that they have planted.’
‘In war you give up even more,’ said Aviv and turned to Tali and said, ‘Do you remember Allon from my company? He gave up his life.’
‘War is terrible … I too am for peace’, said Tali, ‘but we must ensure that the settlements on the Golan remain ours.’
‘I am sure that the Government will do everything so as not to withdraw from the Golan’, Aviv said, ‘but what if the Syrians insist? Think about it. A house and a garden – as compared with blood…’
‘My father fought in the capture of the Heights’, Erez called out. ‘It overlooks the whole of Galilee! Without the Golan Heights Israel will not be defended from the north’.
‘Our means of defense have been greatly improved since the Six Day War,’ Aviv interrupted him. ‘We shall continue to be strong even without a zone separating us from Syria. And apart from that, you surely remember that missiles from Iraq reached Tel-Aviv in the Gulf War. The great distance between the two countries did not prevent that!’
‘You cannot capture a country with missiles,’ said Erez. Imagine what would have happened in the Yom Kippur War if Sinai had not been in our hands.’
‘And despite that we returned the whole massive area of Sinai to Egypt. Even you, Erez, have to admit that peace with Egypt made it worth while.’
‘You do not know what it means to leave your home’, said Tali, her eyes filling with tears.
‘It is hard,’ Aviv said, putting his arm round her shoulder, ‘but what won’t we do for the sake of peace?’
‘We will do almost anything,’ said Erez, ‘but we will not commit suicide! And what will happen if tomorrow a new dictator, who will not keep the agreement, comes to power in Syria?’
‘I believe that when there will be peace and Syria enjoys economic prosperity it will not be worth their while to break the agreement,’ said Aviv. ‘And we are sufficiently strong to deter them from thinking about attacking us. We must not be afraid of peace and our Government is apparently going in the right direction.'”
After this story the pupils are divided into groups and given the following assignments:
“1. Israel and Syria will both derive much benefit from the state of peace that will exist between them, in addition to the importance of putting an end to the state of war. State some of the changes that, in your opinion, peace will bring to the lives of the inhabitants of the two countries.
2. In his response to Tali, who wants to remain in her house on the Golan, Aviv says: ‘A house and a garden – as compared with blood…’ What does he mean?
3. Erez says: ‘We will do almost anything for the sake of peace, but we will not commit suicide!’ Aviv too is not sure that the agreement to return the Golan will indeed bring true peace. Nevertheless he believes that we are sufficiently strong to attempt to achieve peace despite the risk entailed in withdrawing from the Golan. Do you agree with him? Give reasons for your opinion”.
(N. Meron Without Offense – Value Dilemmas in Children’s Society, The Right to Respect and the Duty to Respect, 1998, p.8-9
T_M
yes, the israeli textbooks were recently changed, a product of oslo. however, most israelis (and most american jews) grew up learning from the old textbooks. since cohen is middle aged, the myth he refers to (as i understand it) was central to the teaching of Zionism.
8opus –
That’s weird. First you argue that Greek-Montrealers are more connected to Greece. Then you argue that Greek-Montrealers are less connected to Greece.
I just don’t get it. But, for the record: the similarity is that, in both cases, Greek-Montrealers regard Greece as an ethnic homeland, and Jewish-Montrealers regard Israel as an ethnic homeland.
Actually, i didn’t say that greek-montrealers were more connected, then later say they were less connected. I said their connection to their home country is DIFFERENT from non-Israeli Jews’ connection to israel, because Israel is NOT these Jews’ home county. you gloss over the differences by using the term ethnic homeland. do you not believe that the relationship of an immigrant to his/her country of origin is different from that of jews to Israel?
this is important, since the difference in these relationship helps to explain why jews take it more seriously (and why Cohen is upset) when Israel claims to speak for all jews.
Incite, by recently, you mean over the past decade. However, you are wrong that they are the product of Oslo. Oslo and the changed textbooks are the result of a changing mindset within Israel which was probably catalyzed by the Intifadah of the late ’80s, the media frenzy that surrounded it, and the initial publicity garnered by revisionist historians.
As for generations who grew up with a particular story or myth, you present a strange argument. If it was a myth, and since the Zionist project has really been active since the late teens of the last century with most of the activity taking place in the 30s and later, then older Jews would have been exposed to the “true” history.
The fact is that there is no “myth.” The story of the “myth” is how some people make themselves feel better about a history of war where it is the winners who are judged harshly while the losers have made a lifetime commitment to victimhood. So some people tell themselves that somebody was trying to delude them.
I don’t feel Israel speaks for me, and I am obviously much closer to Israel than Mr. Cohen. He should really cut out the apologia directed at his friends at Indymedia and ANSWER, or at least admit that it is a myth he has made up to provide indications of his political correctness…
Israel is NOT these Jews’ home county. you gloss over the differences by using the term ethnic homeland. do you not believe that the relationship of an immigrant to his/her country of origin is different from that of jews to Israel?
You’ve completely lost me. Now you’re talking about immigrants?
I am of Jewish origin; my buddy is of Greek origin; another is of Armenian origin; all of us were born in Montreal; none of us are immigrants. (The Armenian’s parents were born in Lebanon. So it goes.)
The three of us, we relate to our ethnic homelands in similar ways. You don’t: you’re not like us. And, hey, you’re entitled to relate to Israel in whatever mystical, transcendental ways you like. But the whole self-determination, Jewish-homeland-because-we-come-from-Israel thing is pretty important to a lot of Jews.
Choosing to pretend otherwise seems a bit silly. Or are you really not getting this?
Oh, I missed the “this is important” bit:
this is important, since the difference in these relationship helps to explain why jews take it more seriously (and why Cohen is upset) when Israel claims to speak for all jews.
Um. First, “Israel” doesn’t claim to speak for all Jews. Nor does the Israeli government. Nor does the Likud party. So Cohen can keep cool — he’s upset about something he made up.
Second, this whole Jews-are-a-special-special-case thing just isn’t very convincing. There are other diasporas. Lots, in fact, and many of us have homelands. And, no, we’re not “immigrants”: we were born here in the diaspora.