Biting the hand
A serious-sounding disagreement has broken out between Israel’s Defense Ministry and the US Pentagon over Israel’s sale of Harpy Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to China. Gideon Alon writes in Ha’aretz:
“According to media reports, Israel failed to report to the U.S. the complete details of an arms deal involving the sale of assault drones to China.”
James Besser writes in Jewish Week:
“[A] top Jewish defense analyst said the Harpy issue is just the tip of the iceberg. […] Israeli officials, Jewish leaders here warn, may be ignoring the possibility the military technology they sell to China could end up in Iran — a major buyer of weapons from China.”
It reminds me of a famous quote from Mark Twain- “If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.”
that brings up another Mark Twain quote about pre-Mandate Palestine – “”….. A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds… a silent mournful expanse…. a desolation…. we never saw a human being on the whole route…. hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.”
Perfect TM, perfect.
Hey Brown, here’s a quote:
“”Extremism believes that it’s okay to strap bombs on to your children and send them to paradise and whatever else and to behead people,”
Gene Simmons, bass player for Kiss
So the Israelis were once starving dogs?
I thought they were colonialist oppressors from the get-go!
Keep your antisemitic propaganda coherent, whitey.
why is it that some people who comment on this site have such trouble making relevant comments… not a word here about arms deals, China, IMI etc.
Don’t any of you care if Israel may be shooting themselves in the foot by possibly leaking technology to Iran?
I guess not.
“Don’t any of you care if Israel may be shooting themselves in the foot by possibly leaking technology to Iran?”
And don’t you just love a good excuse to cast Israel in the villain’s role again, and again, and again…?
Nu… It’s your your story, JB. Why is Israel the bad guy in it? And why should China get off so lightly when China’s fat ass sits on the UN Security Council? How come there’s no boycott of offensive weapons sales to Iran? It’s your pattern to make or break. Deal with it or don’t.
“why is it that some people who comment on this site have such trouble making relevant comments..”
Beware Jews, the whiteman, Brown, speaks with a forked tongue. He uses an ambiguous, inflammatory Twain quote, then cries foul if your bloond simmers.
Beware, because the whiteman who calls himself “Brown” will break your heart.
The story by itself is ok sister Zionista, its just that *all* the whiteman Brown’s stories, if viewed as a woven rug from above, would reveal interlocking swatstickas.
“However, it should be known that the views I express are not always views that I myself hold personally, but views which I present to challenge those that you hold, for the sake of dialogue, and for the sake of learning.”
From the top of Brown’s site:
“Better to die on your feet than live on your knees”
Do not listen to the whiteman’s lies!
Live on your feet!
Dickforce wrote: “ So the Israelis were once starving dogs? ”
No – reading is fundamental. The point of the quote is that dogs are loyal, and men are not. Is English your first langugage or are you simply being disingenuous?
Zionista wrote: “It’s your your story, JB. Why is Israel the bad guy in it?”
Are you joking?? America has been the best friend Israel could have ever asked for for decades now. We arm them so they can maintain the status quo. We veto all UN resolutions condemning their behavior. And we send them billions every year without fail. If it wasn’t for America and France’s support since 1948, Israel simply would not exist. We ask very little of Israel in return.
And Likud demonstrates loyalty to us how? By:
1) Selling weapons to one of America’s only legitimage adversaries, the vicious totalitarian and anti-Democratic Chinese regime
2) Undercutting the legitimate desire of the Taiwanese for independence
3) Lying to us after swearing “not to harm any American interests” following the Phalcon deal in 1997.
Now even the most hardcore supporters of Israel are pissed off:
“Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Feith have been friendly to Israel, and according to Yediot Aharonot, personal friends of Yaron, but now they are boycotting him.”
UPI
Zionista continued: “And why should China get off so lightly when China’s fat ass sits on the UN Security Council?”
Why is China ‘getting off lightly’ ? China has America firmly by the balls financially. We have very little leverage with them. As you mentioned they are on the UNSC and will veto motions to condemn their actions.
Zionista further opined: “How come there’s no boycott of offensive weapons sales to Iran?”
Why should there be? You haven’t made a case that there is a basis for one. Unlike China, America or Israel, Iran hasn’t made any offensive military moves against anyone, ever, unless I’m mistaken. Iran was attacked by Iraq in 1980. Other than defending itself in that case, Iran has been more or less isolationist militarily speaking.
John Brown,
Can you even comprehend how similar you are to the posters on Stormfront. Again, it’s not the info you present, it’s your focus. Your gross Brown. And that Mobius allows you to post on this site…I can only guess it’s to ruffle feathers and get people to post (It works Dan).
“We ask very little of Israel in return”
Who’s “we” Brown? Your bizarre conspiracy site uses every chance it gets to get all resne.com and show that “we” are a vile, oppressive, occupying and genocidal cancer affecting the world over. So don’t get all “we” you disgusting turd. You hate the US the same as Israel. And I have no doubt that somewhere in that sick, you’re secretly hoping that Iran obtains bio-nuclear weapons. Your site clearly sympathizes with whatever the results would be from that scenario.
Yuch…I need to go take a shower.
shtreimel wrote: “Can you even comprehend how similar you are to the posters on Stormfront. ”
No, actually I can’t – because I am resolutely anti-racist, and I fully reject ethnic nationalism and bigotry – which are the themes of Stormfront
shtreimel continued: “Who’s “we” Brown?”
We, in that case, is the United States of America – regardless of my problems with its policies – I was born a citizen.
shtreimel lied: “You hate the US the same as Israel. ”
Not at all. I simply want them to change. There’s no doubt, my vision differs greatly from the status quo.
shtreimel lost it: “And I have no doubt that somewhere in that sick, you’re secretly hoping that Iran obtains bio-nuclear weapons. Your site clearly sympathizes with whatever the results would be from that scenario.”
Well that’s obviously stupid and untrue
I live in NYC and no doubt that’s very likely to be where such an attack would target. So your ‘logic’ is faulty there.
I’ve never written anything in favor of bio/chemical/nuclear weapons – in fact I’ve only consistently pointed out the horrors of them.
So I doubt you ever really read my site at all.
Whiteman:
“Dickforce wrote: ” So the Israelis were once starving dogs? ”
No – reading is fundamental. The point of the quote is that dogs are loyal, and men are not. Is English your first langugage or are you simply being disingenuous?”
Yeah, I got the quote…Israelis were disloyal starving humans. Whatever you literalist whiteman. Address the points hypocrital white satanist scumbag.
“No, actually I can’t – because I am resolutely anti-racist, and I fully reject ethnic nationalism and bigotry – which are the themes of Stormfront”
Don’t believe his lies. The whiteman Brown is obssessed with race and death. The whiteman Brown is a sickness.
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.”
“Reminds” me of another “kind” of quote:
‘It is true that the Jew is a human being, but so is a flea a living being – one that is none too pleasant . . . our duty towards both ourselves and our conscience is to render it harmless. It is the same with the Jews.’
Fleas? Rats? Sons of Pigs and Dogs?
Hey whiteman, got any quotes involving monkeys that remind you of particular issues in the African American community?
Jeezus. Not a single one of you people has actually addressed the issue of Israel-China relations. New meaning to the term “ad hominem.” It’s not just a bad idea, people — it’s a logical fallacy.
“Not a single one of you people has actually addressed the issue of Israel-China relations”
What do starving pets have to do with Israel-China relations, you pompous, white, self-rightous, pseudo-intellectual, cuddly teddy bear?
“It’s not just a bad idea, people — it’s a logical fallacy.”
It’s poetry whiteman. Your kind can never know our ways. And please don’t refer to me as “people”. I’m a dog, racist.
White People:
What have any of you said on the subject of Israel-China relations except to compare Israelis to starving dogs? (Yes Brown, I know the Jews aren’t the dogs! They are the starving, biting, ingrateful people, much less loyal than dogs. A good Jew is a dog after all, right whiteman?)
Perhaps, Sam, because those relations are mired in secrecy and we have no idea what is going on?
Before responding, why don’t you google American companies selling secret or advanced technology to China. You’ll find some serious infractions that aren’t merely allegations, but factual and proven.
If Israel is breaching its agreements with the US, then it must stop immediately and apologize. However, not everything is always as it seems. As a simple example, consider an avionics system that Israel may have modified substantially so that the technology is its own. Now imagine that they feel this technology is sophisticated but not of the latest generation and can be beaten by superior technology. Do you suppose that it would be okay to transfer this technology? Do you suppose the US might object anyway? Do they have a right to do so?
Before making accusations about biting the hand that feeds you, I’d like John Brown to do more research. Then, if the research is serious and solid, we can discuss the topic seriously.
Hey Sam,
I address what I think needs to be addressed…and that is Brown…PERIOD. Take a looksee on Stormfront, they post the same stuff…all the time, in the same manner that Brown does. One sided, no context, anti-Israel sludge.
Personally, I learn a lot from yourself, some of Mobius’ posts and at times I can tolerate Asaf. But Brown’s a puke. So ad hominem away.
And Agutten Shabbos.
One more ad hominem…
“So I doubt you ever really read my site at all.”
Yes I have….TAKE A DESIGN CLASS.
I’m not finished just yet 🙂
Here’s the latest posting on your site:
Pipes Favors Concentration Camps
Here’s Pipes’ article:
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2309
Tell me where it states that he’s in favor of “concentration camps”. Or are you just using Holocaust imagery for shock and awe the way Zunel, Steele and Irving does? Because brother, you sound more like ’em every time you touch your key pad.
* yeah, I know there were many Concentration Camps. And I’m sure you had no idea that people would think that you would ever, ever use Holocaust imagery on your site to debase a Jew. But play with me ok, I’m going on a hunch…
shtremel wrote: “Tell me where it states that he’s in favor of “concentration camps”.”
All through the entire article where he offers excuses and justifications in favor of the decision to put Japanese-Americans in “internment” camps (which are nothing but concentration camps by another name) simply because of their ethnicity. Not to mention his endorsement of a book titled “In Defense of Internment“. Shit, you really need to learn to read.
shtreimel continued: “ Or are you just using Holocaust imagery for shock and awe the way Zunel, Steele and Irving does? ”
More of your reading comprehension problems getting in the way of normal understanding… Do you see at the top where it says Submitted by JeffreyLebowski ? That’s not me. Or how about the line under that where it says “BY JUAN COLE” ? Juan Cole is a Professor of History at the University of Michigan. Reading, shtreimel, reading! That’s how you realize that not only didn’t I write it, but I didn’t even post it on the site, ya dumbass.
Not that Prof. Cole is in any way wrong in what he wrote-
for your information:
concentration camp
Function: noun
: a camp where persons (as prisoners of war, political prisoners, or refugees) are detained or confined
As you notice, it doesn’t say that concentration camps aren’t concentration camps if they are “spartan”, as Pipes describes the US camps.
The irony of Pipes coming out in favor of concentration camps (whether for Japanese-Americans or Muslim Americans), and you:
1) willfully ignoring the fact of what he said
2) defending him
3) accusing others of “debasing a Jew” by raising objections to his position
is quitte rich.
Brown you dope…
“Not to mention his endorsement of a book titled “In Defense of Internment”. Shit, you really need to learn to read. ”
And you need to fess up…is it your site or isn’t it? I believe you said it is…further up on these here comments. So if it is, does it make a difference if you wrote the article or not (and it just so happens that most of your posts, posted by yourself and others, have a similar flavor to them)? And do you not have any editorial clout over which headlines are chosen for your blog? The use of Concentration Camp and Pipes is sick, and is something I expect from Irving. Although you clearly have no quams about using Holocaust imagery to promote you wacky Left ideals.
“for your information:
concentration camp”
Y’know Brown, you sound so much Irving it’s incredible. He also played the semantics game with Penguin Books on all sorts of topics. In the end, what mattered was how the words are used and by whom. And you choose to use them (as editor or writer…jeez, you have to be so literal with this guy) in a consistent manner that paints Jews in a negative light….oh sorry, I meant to say Zionists.
Speaking of reading…
For a second there I though you had me. I actually thought I accused you of writing the article. But after reading my post, I did no such thing. And while I didn’t state that the article was posted by Jeffrey Lebowski, I also didn’t state that you WROTE or POSTED the article. Again, like I stated above, semantics aside, you allowed the headline….one where a Jew and Holocaust imagery are thrown together. David Irving would be proud.
Is Pipes even Jewish? where is that written?
shtreimel wrote: “Although you clearly have no quams about using Holocaust imagery to promote you wacky Left ideals. ”
Oh my “wacky” leftist ideals, like being against concentration camps.. how wacky!
Once again I didn’t “use Holocaust imagery” – Pipes has written in favor of ethnic concentration camps in the context of the war on terror. What do you want Prof. Cole to do, use some kind of euphemism instead of calling them what they are ?
Yes I ‘allowed’ the headline.. because I don’t change headlines, and everything Prof. Cole says is 100% accurate as far as I can tell. So far you haven’t made note of anything untrue in the story itself, (or discussed China and Israel and Harpy UAV’s)
shtreimel continued: “And you choose to use them (as editor or writer…jeez, you have to be so literal with this guy) in a consistent manner that paints Jews in a negative light.”
Not at all.. the majority of stories on my site that mention Jews tend to deal with Jews I see as heroes because of moral positions they have taken, even if they are unpopular. My site highlights left-wing dissident Jews, and only tends to trash fascists, maniacal settlers and bigots. I don’t think there’s any evidence of anything to the contrary.
Maybe you think being a left-wing dissident Jew is “a negative light” but I disagree.
Jewish Professors Keep Divestment Drive Alive
Pro-Palestinian Jews take lead in organizing ‘anti-Israel’ conference
This Much is True: We Remember
Reflections on Zionism From a Dissident Jew
Israel’s Jewish Critics Aren’t ‘Self-Hating’
Dissent is not disloyalty
Jews in UK renounce right to live in Israel
S.F. Jewish activist held as security threat in Israel
Yippies: Then and now
But if people that happen to be Jewish write in favor of torture (like Alan Dershowitz) or in favor of Concentration Camps (like Pipes) or celebrating at Baruch Goldstein’s grave, or speaking in favor of ethnic cleansing then of course they get criticized – as they should (as should anyone, Jewish or not who writes or says those things). It has little to do with their Jewishness and everything to do with the positions they’ve taken.
I dunno. I would’ve enjoyed a conversation about this even on a hypothetical, speculative level.
well, Sam
what do you think of it ?
to me there’s not much worse than disloyalty
If you grew up, as I did, in a diaspora community where people speeent a lot of time thinking about and worrying about their fellow Jews in the holy land, raising funds to plant trees in the desert, etc.
I can’t imagine where people I grew up with here would ever think of doing something contrary to Israel’s strategic interests, that could cause them harm, for money. So to read in that UPI story the MK saying “We’re not the United States’ 52nd state” is kind of shocking.
This seems like a real ‘Judas’ kind of a move to use a new testament metaphor
JohnBrown,
You have a extremely consistent bloggin pattern; post something critical of Israel, wait for some replies to roll in and then use that basis to expand the discussion four-hundred times your original post with some cut&paste that you were originally holding back.
2)
If no one comments on the China-Israel thing, then maybe it doesn’t interest too mnay people. Mobius posts a ton of interesting stuff here, sometimes 0 comments. Relax.
3)
I appreciate that you are worried about technology being sold to China, only to be copied and sold to Iran to be used against us.
Judas Brown.
Hmmm, I like the ring of that.
You call it “left-wing dissident Jew”
I call it self-hating. One notch below anti-Semite IMHO.
“raising funds to plant trees” = Willfully blowing up babies and haphazardly firing rockets at civilians(why “use some kind of euphemism instead of calling them what they are”)
Also under the category of “why use some kind of euphemism instead of calling them what they are”
John “the Babylonian” Brown is a self-hating, reggae-loving, keffiyah-sporting, Jewfroed, hipster white boy who wishes his ass could be as BROWN as my own.
(His politics are a bit knee-jerk too.)
Meanwhile at Columbia…
“Another faculty member at the center of the controversy is professor George Saliba, a specialist in the history of Arabic and Islamic science, who reportedly told a student that her opinion about Israel was not valid because she had green eyes and was not a “true Semite.”
“What seems to have happened is probably a misquotation of an argument I sometimes make,” wrote Saliba, who was unavailable for an interview. “The gist of it would be to say that being born in a specific religion, or converting to one, is not the same as inheriting the color of one’s eyes from one’s parents and thus does not produce evidence of land ownership of a specific real estate.”
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/chitribts/20050101/ts_chicagotrib/politicsofmiddleeastplayoutinclassfracas
John Brown (12/31/04 10:42am): “Why is China ‘getting off lightly’ ? China has America firmly by the balls financially. We have very little leverage with them. As you mentioned they are on the UNSC and will veto motions to condemn their actions.”
Because China is the one selling to Iran. Not Israel. If the problem is the possibility of weapons winding up in Iran, then the problem is China. Not the country selling to them. Once they bought them, they’re theirs.
You suggest that Israel is somehow responsible for the US’s back in our cold war with China, while the US sells weapons systems to Saudi Arabia which remains in a formal state of war with Israel. Funny how that works.
I call bullshit
prove Saudi Arabia is in a “formal state of war” with Israel
Saudi Arabia does not recognize Israel, and they support its enemies. They may not be lobbing missiles Israel’s way, but they make it possible for others to do it.
Now, about the point. Please try to explain how China selling stuff they purchased from Israel to Iran makes Israel responsible for Iran buying the stuff.
Zionista wrote: “Please try to explain how China selling stuff they purchased from Israel to Iran makes Israel responsible for Iran buying the stuff.”
Because it’s within Israel’s power to prevent China from getting it (American/Israeli tech) in the first place
The China/Taiwan struggle is not even relevant to Israel’s strategic situation in the middle east – this is all about money
JB: “Because it’s within Israel’s power to prevent China from getting it (American/Israeli tech) in the first place”
It is absurd to hold Israel responsible for China’s decision.
And of course it’s all about money (welcome to the human race). If you don’t believe it, try getting along without some.
Allow me to clarify. Much of anything that has to do with international, let alone interpersonal, relations has everything to do with money. That shouldn’t mean that everything must necessarily have to do with money. There are intangibles that are worthy of great value. But it’s a sorry fact that the tangible quality of life diminishes the less wealth one has. This applies to individuals as well as nations.
That said, Israel had something China found worthy of paying for. That China turns around and resells a portion of same to one of Israel’s most dangerous enemies is a bitter irony, but hardly Israel’s responsibility. Responsibilities for decisions made by the Peoples Republic of China should be theirs alone.