the easter funny
you know he actually wasn’t well respected at all. the talmud accuses him of idolatry and repeatedly calls him a son of a whore, claiming his father was a roman centurian. and not only do we admit killing jesus in the talmud, but we brag about doing it, and killing the disciples as well — a crime we historically have not even been accused of. of course, this was all written hundreds of years after it would’ve actually happened so it could just’ve been our rabbis incorporating an extreme dismissal of christianity into their work, but either way, it by no means reflects the greater values of love and kindness our tradition espouses. but hey, look at the bright side: if we didn’t kill jesus (if he did, in fact exist, and was, in fact, the messiah), none of you heathens would be saved.
truth be told, historically speaking, we used to lynch christians and burn effygies of jesus on purim. now we just take their money for nefesh b’nefesh and give them jabotinsky awards for being friends of israel. who said judaism wasn’t progressive?! as robert zimmerman hanevi once sang, “the times they are a changing…”
tough to say “we” killed jesus when tons of jews didn’t even live in eretz israel at the time, and of those who did, most were not present for pilate’s audience.
oh, i’d argue the barrabas incident is pure myth. the romans don’t even enter into the rabbis’ story. check out “Revolution in Judea: Jesus and the Jewish Resistance” by Hyam Maccoby. it does away with barrabas quite effectively.
You may think it’s funny talking about this kind of stuff in order to provoke people. It is. But it’s also really irresponsible. Let’s at least have some details on the sources and just a little more context. It’s definitely something that we should talk about – but JESUS mobius, this is the freaking internet. Who knows what kind of people will be linking your page tomorrow, quoting things out of context and getting people in the Ukraine or God knows where else to reopen investigations about the accuracy of the blood libel.
“paranoia runs deep…into your mind it will creep”
manuscript boy — care to chime in?
Aye Israel, Saul among the prophets? Aye Israel, the Greeks among the prophets? Why do you think your Messiah is not coming? G-D DOES NOT REPEAT HIMSELF. YOU SHOULD BE LISTENING. Who else, but G-D, works these mind-bending tests on Israel? Ah, it’s His workings! Israel means “one who has struggled with G-D”. To wit: one who is TESTED by G-D and passed through the discipline of alliance. Yeshua is G-D’s ULTIMATE TEST ON HIS PEOPLE. And G-D doesn’t repeat Himself, why do you think He is keeping silence, why do you think there have been no more prophets? Why do you think he was so displeased that he moved away from the Temple?
You better get started on the Greek testament. Yeshua is YOUR WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN. Yeah, the lion playing with the dove. Just imagine. If you accepted Yeshua, the rest of the world would marvel, and ask you to be brought to the mount of G-d. If you accepted Yeshua, the rest of the world would marvel, and help you build the Temple.
Yeah Mob,
please provide us with the tractates and page numbers.
maribel, the prophets said that when moshiach comes the jews will return to israel from the four corners of the earth on the wings of eagles and the temple will be rebuilt. if we are to believe the story correctly, jesus is the reason the romans sack the temple and the jews are dispersed from israel. that’s quite the opposite of what moshiach is supposed to do. ergo, jesus wasn’t moshiach.
The following was compiled by Manuscriptboy:
The following quotes are all from a Yemenite manuscript of the Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, MS Jerusalem, Yad Harav Herzog 1. But they are found in all the uncensored versions of the Talmud, including the early Italian printings.
1. ñðäãøéï îâ ò”Ã
‘åäëøåæ éåöà ìôðéå’. äùúà à éï, îòé÷øà ìà . åäúðéà : ‘áòøá äôñç úìà åäå ìéùåò äðöøé. åëøåæ éåöà ìôðéå à øáòéà éåà – “éùåò äðöøé éåöà ìäéñ÷ì òì ùëéùó åäñéú åäãéç à ú éùøà ì. ëì îé ùéåãò ìå æëåú éáå åéìîã.” åìà îöà å ìå æëåú åúìà åäå áòøá äôñç.’ à îø òåìà : åúñáøä, éùåò äðöøé áø äôåëé ìéä æëåú äåä? îñéú äåà , åøçîðà à îø ‘ìà úçîì åìà úëñä òìéå’ (ãáøéà éâ, è). à ìà ùà ðé éùåò äðöøé, ù÷øåá ìîìëåú äéä.
úðå øáðï: çîùä úìîéãéà äéå ìå ìéùåò äðöøé. åà ìå äï – îúà é, ð÷é, ðöø, áåðé, úåãä. à úéåä ìîúé, à îø ìäå – îúé éäøâ?! ãëúéá ‘îúé à áà åà øà ä ôðé à ìäéÒ (úäìéà îá, â). à éï! îúé éäøâ, ãëúéá ‘îúé éîåú åà áã ùîå’ (úäìéà îà , Ã¥). à úéåä ìð÷é, à îø ìäï – ð÷à é éäøâ?! ãëúéá ‘åð÷é åöãé÷ à ì úäøâ’ (ùîåú ëâ, æ). à éï! ð÷à é éäøâ, ãëúéá ‘áîñúøéà éäøâ ð÷é’ (úäìéà é, ç). à úéåä ìðöø, à îø ìäå – ðöø éäøâ?! ãëúéá ‘åðöø îùøùéå éôøä’ (éùòéäå éà , à ). à éï! ðöø éäøâ, ãëúéá ‘åà úä äùìëú î÷áøê ëðöø ðúòá’ (éùòéäå éã, éè). à úéåä ìáåðé, à îø ìäå – áåðé éäøâ?! ãëúéá ‘áðé áëåøé éùøà ì’ (ùîåú ã, ëá). à éï! áåðé éäøâ, ãëúéá ‘äðä à ðëé äøâ à ú áðê áëåøê’ (ùîåú ã, ëâ). à úéåä ìúåãä, à îø ìäå – úåãä éäøâ?! ãëúéá ‘îæîåø ìúåãä’ (úäìéà ÷, à ). à éï! úåãä éäøâ, ãëúéá ‘æåáç úåãä éëáãððé’ (úäìéà ð, ëâ).
à “ø éäåùò áï ìåé: ëì à ãà ùùà à åøçúéå, æåëä åøåà ä áéùåòúå ùì ä÷ãåù áøåê äåà , ùðà îø (úäìéà ð, ëâ) ‘åùà ãøê à øà ðå áéùò à ìäéÒ. à ì ú÷øà åùà ãøê à ìà åùà ãøê.
2. ñðäãøéï ñæ ò”Ã
ãúðéà : ‘åùà ø ëì çééáé îéúåú ùáúåøä, à éï îëîéðéï òìéäï, çåõ îæä. ëà éæä öã òåùéï ìå? îãìé÷éï ìå à ú äðø ááéú ôðéîé, åîåùéáéï ìå òãéà ááéú çéöåï, ëãé ùéäåà øåà éï à åúå åäåà à éðå øåà ä à åúï. åäìä à åîø ìå – äéà ê ððéç à ú à ìäéðå ùáùîéà åðìê åðòáåã ò”æ? à à çæø áå, îåèá. åà à à îø – ëê äéà çåáúéðå åëê éôä ìðå, äòãéà äùåîòéï îáçåõ îáéà éï à åúå ìáéú ãéï åñå÷ìéï à åúå, åëê òùå ìáï ñèãà áìåã, åúìà åäå áòøá äôñç.’
áï ñèãà ? áï ôðãéøà äåà ! à îø øá çñãà – áòì ñèãà ? áåòì ôðãéøà , áòì ôôåñ áï éäåãä äåà . à ìà à éîà – à îå ñèãà . à îå îøéà îâãìà ðùéà äåà é! ìòåìà à îå, ëãà îøé áôåà áãéúà “ñèãú ãà îáòìä”.
3. ñðäãøéï ։ ò”Ã
ã”à : ‘ìà úà ðä à ìéê øòä’ (úäìéà öà , é) – ùìà éáäìåê çìåîåú øòåú åäøäåøéà øòéÃ. ‘åðâò ìà é÷øá áà äìê’ – ùìà éöà îîê áï à å úìîéã ùî÷ãéç úáùéìå áøáéÃ, ëâåï éùåò äðöøé.
4. ñðäãøéï ־ ò”á
úðå øáðï: ìòåìà úäà ùîà ì ãåçä åéîéï î÷øáú. ìà ëà ìéùò ùãçôå ìâéçæé áùúé éãéå, åìà ëø’ éäåùò áï ôøçéä ùãçôå ìéùåò äðöøé áùúé éãéå…
ø’ éäåùò áï ôøçéä îà é äéà ? ãëé ÷èìéðäå éðà é îìëà [ìøáðï], ÷à ø’ éäåùò áï ôøçéä åòø÷ ìà ìëñðãøéà ùìîöøéÃ, åùîòåï áï ùèç à èîøúéä à çúéä. ëé äåä ùìîà , ùìç ìéä ùîòåï áï ùèç – ‘îðé éøåùìéà òéø ä÷åãù, ìéëé à ìëñðãøéà ùìîöøéà à çåúé. áòìé ùøåé áúåëê åà ðé éåùáú ùåîîä?!’ à îø – ùîò îéðä äåä ùìîà . ÷Ã, à úà , à éúøîé áääåà à åùôéæà , òáãå ìéä é÷øà èåáà . à îø – ëîä éôä à ëñðéà æå! à îø ìå éùåò – ø’, òéðéä úøåèåú. à îø ìå – øùò, áëê à úä òåñ÷? à ôé÷ à øáò îà ä ùéôåøé åùîúéä. ëì éåîà äåä à úé ì÷îéä åà î’ ìéä – ÷áìï? åìà äåä îùâç áéä. éåîà çã à úà ì÷îéä, à ùëçéä ãäåä ÷à ÷à øé ÷øéú ùîò. à çã ìéä áéãéä. ñáø îéãçà ìéä ã÷à ãà çé ìéä. à æì æ÷éó ìáéðú åñâéã ìä. à îø ìéä – äãø áê. à îø ìéä – ëê î÷åáì à ðé îîê, ëì ùçèà åäçèéà à ú äøáéÃ, à éï îñôé÷éï áéãå ìòùåú úùåáä (úåñôúà ñðäãøéï éâ, ä). îà é òáã? à îø îø – éùåò äðöøé éåöà ìäéñ÷ì òì ùëéùó åäñéú åäãéç à ú éùøà ì’.
What is the story of R Yehoshua b Perahia? When King Yannai murdered the rabbis, R Yehoshua fled to Alexandria, and Shimon ben Shatah was hidden by his sister. When there was peace, Shimon wrote: ‘From Jerusalem, the holy city, to you, Alexandria, my sister. My husband is staying with you, and I am here alone’. He understood there was peace. He picked up and left, and arrived at an inn, where they treated him with great respect. He said: ‘How fine is this inn!’. Jesus said to him: ‘Rabbi, but her eyelashes are thin .’ He answered: ‘Reprobate, that’s what you’re concerned with?!’. He brought 400 shofars, and excommunicated him. Every day he would come before him and ask ‘Will you take me back?’, but he paid him no attention. One day he came while he was saying Shma. He made a gesture to him with his hand. He thought he was pushing him away. He left, set up a brick and worshipped it. He said to him ‘Do teshuva’. He answered ‘You taught me that whoever has sinned and caused the public to sin, they do not let him do teshuva’. What was it that he did? As was said before: “Jesus the Nazarene is being stoned because he engaged in witchcraft, and led Israel to idolatryâ€.
I don’t know. I went to Manuscriptboy’s site, I read an Elliott Horowitz article (he’s not very impressive is he?) where he was relying upon secondary sources (at best) to attempt to make his Purim violence point stick, I checked out your links, and my conclusion is that we probably didn’t lynch Christians (that story about the Syrian boy sounds suspiciously like a Passover blood libel), didn’t burn effigies of Jesus (read your own link!!!)
Really, this isn’t serious. You will end up with a high ranking on Google for this topic and your evidence is flimsy at best.
Remember, though, that the “Jesus” mentioned in the Talmud lived during the time of King Alexander Yannai, around 100-80 BCE. The Jesus of Christianity lived around 5 BCE – 30 CE. We’ve got an at least 75 year time gap here to deal with!
Seems to indicate, though, that either there were two different Jesuses (Jesi?) of Nazareth, or one of these stories (or both) was simply made up .
It’s not clear that Jesus is actually mentioned in the Talmud (why would his name be Yeshu) and Nefesh b’Nefesh ceased taking money from the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews after their first year/first flight. So, if you are gonna criticize them or another group, at least get your facts straight.
Jesi…LOL
next Mobius will say “well we do drink blood of Christian infants on Passover,and we fuck sows as well”and the fact that there’s Jewish conspiracy for world domination is an obvious fact.
Funny post/discussion. I have some thoughts on the history. Reading the Talmud’s discussion of Christianity/Jesus at face value is problematic because a) the generally accepted dating places the Talmud at 300-600 CE, but the New Testament writings and Josephus at anywhere from 60-150 CE; b) the Talmud follows the agenda of the rabbis, which includes consolidating power over and against competing streams of Judaism (of course the NT writings are not unbiased either).
I recommend reading Daniel Boyarin and Gabriel Boccaccini on Rabbinic- and Christian-Judaism in the early rabbinic (Boyarin) and second-Temple (Boccaccini) periods.
Well, from the perspective of the Talmud Jesus may not have been so respected, but at the height of his career his followers probably respected him. I suppose the joke would have been symantically more accurate if I had said “He was an influential rabbi”
Just curious — why is this cartoon, or practically any Shabbot 6000 cartoon, considered original and funny?
I suppose the comics may be considered funny by those who laugh at them. As for whether they may be considered original, this would depend entirely on identifying the sources, if any, upon which the jokes are based.
I just found it funnier when Ali G. did the same bit about Jesus being born on Christmas. He was directly addressing a priest though.
I am happy I came up with the idea for the comic without having seen the Ali G. show, otherwise I’d feel incredibly guilty!
An ahistorical perspective:
Is it believable that no Jew in the history of anti-Semitism scowled or spat back at their attackers?! If there were not any expressions of rage, no hidden promises of revenge someday (as everybody else reacted to imperialism), if Jews ran the Corso and let themselves be burnt and vivisected with smiles on their faces and praise for their murderers, they would be angels demanding envy and not humans rating empathy!
Paranoia, with its urgent censorship and smothering protective embrace, is your god and noble lies are no more noble when fully understood than explained jokes are funny.