London Mayor Defends Palestinian Suicide Bombers
London Mayor Ken Livingstone continued his personal crusade against the state of Israel, accusing Israeli government officials of crimes against humanity and defending Palestinian suicide bombers.
“Given that the Palestinians don’t have jet planes, don’t have tanks, they only have their bodies to use as weapons,” Livingstone told Sky News. His comments come less than two weeks after terrorists blew up several London buses and subway trains, killing 55 people.
Several months earlier, Livingstone angered the Israeli government by calling Sharon a war criminal who should be put in prison. He also compared an unsympathetic Jewish reporter to a Nazi guard.
Last week, he returned to similar themes, comparing the right of center Likud party to the radical Hamas terrorist organization. “I think the Israeli hardliners around Likud and Hamas are two sides of the same coin; they need each other to drum up support, they point to the excesses of the other to recruit and I don’t make any distinction because I believe the taking of human life is wrong,” he said.
He also accused Israeli officials of crimes against the Palestinians. “I will welcome and meet with senior members of the Israeli government if they come here because they serve their country’s government even though I believe they have done terrible things bordering on crimes against humanity.”
Jerusalem Post coverage here
Haaretz coverage here
“red” ken livingston is a well known pro palestinian terror anti semite. but he gets away with it in part because jewish antisemites provide him cover – leaders of the divestment movement in britain are jews (as many are in the us); many of the most virulent anti israeli statements come from jewish academia in israel, the us, and britain – a modest proposal for jewish (and pro jewish students), in the famous words of paddy chaevksy, i’m fed up and not going to take this anymore- how bout a little classroom action every time one of the propogandists (jewish or otherwise) state untrue, biased anti israeli statements – takes some balls, but if enough do it you reach critical mass and retaliation is difficult if not impossible.
“Classroom action”? I agree. Some suggestions: Make them stand in the corner. Have them write “I will not be an antisemite/self-hating Jew” 100 times. Keep them after class to pound erasers. And make them swallow their gum while we’re at it.
ok, easy to be snide: how about 20 people in classroom pounding the desk in unison whenever an untrue statemement is made; how bout hissing? just might have an impact
This is the way the JPost presents what I think is the most damning quote:
“Palestinians don’t have jet fighters, they only have their bodies to use as weapons. In that unfair balance, that’s what people use.”
He seems to be defending the mass murder of innocent civilians by suicide bombers just two weeks after he said this about the bombings in London:
“I want to say one thing, specifically to the world today — this was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful.”
“It was not aimed at presidents or prime ministers,” “It was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian … young and old … that isn’t an ideology, it isn’t even a perverted fate, it is an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder.”
What a Schmuck
ok, last comment and back to work: notice in red ken’s quote the abscence of one religious group – even though at least three jews were killed in the terrorist, whoops, excuse me, the militant act. interestingly, the ny times a few days ago ran a profile of many of the victims of the bombings, xtians, muslim, hindu were all described in great detail – again, guess what religious group wasn’t named. if you think you can be in the good graces of the antisemites by separating yourself from or criticing israel, think again, its jew they hate, not israel (actually the rabid left hates jews, the west, america, britain, and modernity in general: and unfortunately the haters include antisemitic jews as well)
sure. this is why “the rabid left,” which to you i imagine consists of the mayor of london, university professors, and assorted activist groups, was so anti-jewish before israel was created. right? do you wanna compare the history of left antisemitism to right antisemitism, and see who comes out ahead? it doesn’t look too good for your crowd.
i’ll start off.
left: marx – i’ll polish this off because i know people will raise it, but “on the jewish question” is not in fact about “the jewish question.” it’s about liberal political philosophy as the philosophy of a class. granted that marx was hostile to all religions, but his antisemitism was tame compared to active german rightists of the time, who were getting elected mayors of cities.
stalin – i don’t normally even include stalin as a leftist, but whatever, i recognize how the traditional political discourse breaks down and i’ll accept it here for sake of argument. stalin = nutjob, stalin hates him some jews. ok, so how bout that.
“it’s jew they hate, not israel.” hilarious.
Personal crusade? Personal crusade? Out of one corner of your mouth the entire world is out to get you, and out of the other corner of your mouth each of your six billion pursuers are on a “personal crusade.” Can anyone doubt why we lightly follow Zionist hysteria? It’s more literate but too often just as dumb as crossworshippers awaiting the Rapture!
Red Ken, in denouncing Israel, is hardly acting on his own, he is part of a larger framework of people so numerous it is much more useful to talk about the excluded — people in Israel itself, America, Canada, Germany and certain Polynesian island states who can be cajolled (sp?) into a vote, as with Palau.
In the Battle of Algiers, a captured nationalist/terrorist gives the same explanation you will be athletically forcing out scoffing and scorn at fifty years from now.
They have none of your glittering, cutting-edge weaponry.
They work with what they can.
Give them your helicopter gunships and Merkavas (better than an Abrams) and you can have their IEDs.
Same with Iraq.
Recently American, Israeli and Saudi researchers reached the same conclusion in separate studies: suicide bombers and the Iraqi foreign fighters are not radical Muslims or deranged kids seeking 42 transparent-skinned virgins, but ordinary people convinced that they are being conquered by ostensibly “democratic” states continuing Colonialism.
“do you wanna compare the history of left antisemitism to right antisemitism, and see who comes out ahead? it doesn’t look too good for your crowd. ”
Of course not; Right anti-Semitism arguably started with Christianity, while the Left didn’t even exist until the Enlightenment or the French Revolution. Kind of like saying that an original Major League team that started in the nineteenth century is better than a recent expansion team because historically it has won more games. Clearly, our concern is which team is better THIS SEASON.
So the relevant question is, which side is more anti-Semitic RIGHT NOW? Since the capital-R right is nearly non-existent in the USA (replaced by the anti-anti-Semitic and largely pro-Israel conservatism of William Buckley et. al.) and the Right in Europe is far smaller and weaker than those left-of-center, while the Left everywhere seems rabidly anti-Israel and liberals/ left-of-center moderates seem wishy-washy at best, I think it’s obvious.
“marx – i’ll polish this off because i know people will raise it, but “on the jewish question” is not in fact about “the jewish question.”
Weak apologetics. And those German rightists are far less of an influence today than is Marx.
“stalin – i don’t normally even include stalin as a leftist, but whatever, i recognize how the traditional political discourse breaks down and i’ll accept it here for sake of argument. ”
Funny – I don’t include Hitler as a Rightist (not that I have any love for capital-R Rightists). After all, had Hitler been a Rightist, he would have restored the Kaiser and the aristocracy, his ideology would have been Christian and not pagan/ Romantic, and what’s with the Socialism?
“stalin = nutjob, stalin hates him some jews. ok, so how bout that.”
Kind of a blank check for anyone, isn’t that?
“Red Ken, in denouncing Israel, is hardly acting on his own, he is part of a larger framework of people so numerous it is much more useful to talk about the excluded — people in Israel itself, America, Canada, Germany and certain Polynesian island states who can be cajolled (sp?) into a vote, as with Palau. ”
Five Billion Anti-Semite Fans Can’t Be Wrong? I guess that argument worked for Elvis.
“They have none of your glittering, cutting-edge weaponry.
They work with what they can.
Give them your helicopter gunships and Merkavas (better than an Abrams) and you can have their IEDs. ”
Oh, they are SO COOL. What does this have to do with the rightness or wrongness of their cause?
“suicide bombers and the Iraqi foreign fighters are not radical Muslims or deranged kids seeking 42 transparent-skinned virgins, but ordinary people convinced that they are being conquered by ostensibly “democratic” states continuing Colonialism.”
Well, if they believe that, it must be right. All Oppressed Peoples (TM) are always right. (Legal Disclaimer: determinations regarding who may be considered Oppressed Peoples (TM) shall be made in the sole discretion of the shrillest, most irrational Leftist grad student available. Historical and current facts shall not be considered; only skin color, gender and sexual orientation, which are the sole determinants of moral qualities; provided, however, that light-skinned male heterosexuals may achieve righteous status through denunciation of other light-skinned male heterosexuals and perpetual self-flagellation. All decisions shall be final until a new decision is made.)
The double-standard worldwide for the Jews is second to none. In the US if a mayor spoke negatively about blacks or another minority group they would not last. In the UK if Livingstone’s comments were about Muslims or Indians, he would have been destroyed. The same can be said for almost any Western country that attacks a group publically, so long as it not the Jews. Public ridicule against Jews is now accepted and tolerated without any reprecussions, its no big deal. May I point to the comments of the former outgoing Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Bin Mohammed, when he let rip a barrage of anti-semitic rants at one of the largest Muslim congresses in the world, most around the world agreed with him, except for the few sane people willing to stand up and refute his ridiculous claims. This latest showing by London’s mayor of anti-semitic and anti-Israel commentary is sadly a microcosm for the present status of the spread of anti-semitism worldwide and the acceptance and tolerance of this utter nonsense. What can be done, I am not sure. But without any attempts to curb this disturbing trend/movement, we should only expect more of the same and likely a further deterioration.
my comment will be short…I want to say 2 things:
first: “Given that the Palestinians don’t have jet planes, don’t have tanks, they only have their bodies to use as weapons”
this is completely true , but it does not give them the right ,neither by islam, to commit terrorist acts .
second: “anti semite” I found this mistake hundered of times. It seams that none know the real meaning of “semite “.
Semites are people who speak Semitic languages; the group includes Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians.In a Biblical sense, Semites are peoples whose ancestry can be traced back to Shem, Noah’s eldest son. The ancient Semitic populations were pastoral Nomads who several centuries before the Christian Era were migrating in large numbers from Arabia to Mesopotamia, the coasts of the Mediterranean Sea, and the Nile River delta. Jews and other Semites settled in villages in Judea, southern Palestine.
Present day speakers of Semitic languages are as diverse in physical, psychological, cultural, and sociological characteristics as are speakers of Indo European languages. The most prominent Semites today are Arabs and Jews.
peace to all ^-^
simple correction to Avigreen: Ken Livingstone did include Jews in his list of ethnicites targeted in the London bombings-it just got missed out of Shep’s precis.
I think a lot of people are unaware of Ken Livingstone’s record over the lat 20 years-few people in British politics have been such committed anto-racist campaigers.
Nadia, you are completely correct in your description of the origin of the term Semite. But all that means is that the term is wrong for what people mean when they use it. When people talk about anti-Semitism (such as “The New anti-Semitism” as exemplified by K&Y and his mindless rants), they mean hatred of the Jews. Really, it only muddles the issue when people pretend the word is being used to refer to all Semitic groups in general. In fact, Arabs today are the leading source of Anti-Semtism in the world.
But if you wanted to start a movement to replace the term anti-Semtism to the more correct (and less open to ambigious re-interpretation) term “Jew hatred,” I would be happy to lend my support.
And Jos, one cannot be a “committed anti-racist campaigner” and a Jew hater at the same time. Ask Louis Farrakhan.
The Tuna thanks for your comment. What you say is true…and it is so stupid and also sad that “Arabs today are the leading source of Anti-Semtism in the world”.
Whenever I hear and read the term “anti-semite” makes me mad …..because so many do not know its true meaning.
so YES I want to start a movement to replace the term anti-Semtism to the more correct (and less open to ambigious re-interpretation) term “Jew hatred”. But I need help …what can I actually do to start this movement…..to let all the world hear…
Thank you so much “The Tuna” ,
peace to all.
Nadia, there are a number of steps you could take to help push people to change their language, but you would have to start small and not expect quick results. Fact is, most people don’t care about the origins of the term. They know what they mean with they say it, write it, hear it, or read it.
One thing you may be able to do is to launch an online petition demanding that the term be changed. If nothing else, a letter explaining the issue would serve as grassroots public education. If you get a lot of people to sign the petition, you can sent it to local media outlets with a request to change their language.
But don’t expect the ADL to suddenly chance their language. And be careful to express that you are not working to undermine the fact that there is rising Jew hatred, particularly in Europe and the Arab world, but just to change the word we use to refer to this rising hatred.
Nadia, there are a number of steps you could take to help push people to change their language, but you would have to start small and not expect quick results. Fact is, most people don’t care about the origins of the term. They know what they mean with they say it, write it, hear it, or read it.
One thing you may be able to do is to launch an online petition demanding that the term be changed. If nothing else, a letter explaining the issue would serve as grassroots public education. If you get a lot of people to sign the petition, you can sent it to local media outlets with a request to change their language.
But don’t expect the ADL to suddenly chance their language. And be careful to express that you are not working to undermine the fact that there is rising Jew hatred, particularly in Europe and the Arab world, but just to change the word we use to refer to this rising hatred.
The Tuna thank you so much for your great ideas….I know that
I have to start small and not expect quick results..but I can try….
thanks a lot , take care
peace.^-^
Funny – I don’t include Hitler as a Rightist (not that I have any love for capital-R Rightists). After all, had Hitler been a Rightist, he would have restored the Kaiser and the aristocracy, his ideology would have been Christian and not pagan/ Romantic, and what’s with the Socialism?
This is one of the most dishonest things we have ever read in the hilarious story of rightist attempts to slough Hitler off onto the Left (“he said he was a [National] Socialist! That makes him a Socialist! You know, like the DPRK is Democratic!”). For Hitler to have restored the Kaiser would’ve meant total political suicide for himself, and the willful blinmdness that follows is trul;y slimy: are we to believe that “rightist,” far from signifying an ideology of the centralization of power, can only refer to specific monarchist loyalties? Is the Right then dead except in royalist restoration clubs? Rightist must mean Christian — are we to believe that any non-Christian religion is a guarantor against rightist thinking? Especially since Hitler’s reason for favoring his ideology-religion over others was specifically because of its utility to rightist nationalist purposes! But what to make of Hitler’s marriage of Christian church and state, his imprisonment of preachers who would not stump for him? And what are we to make of non-Nazi non-Monarchist German rightist assassins — oh, that’s right, the Correct and Offical way to deal with them is to call them anarchists and leave it at that.
But then we shouldn’t have responded to any of it: we should’ve stropped here:
Since the capital-R right is nearly non-existent in the USA
so YES I want to start a movement to replace the term anti-Semtism to the more correct (and less open to ambigious re-interpretation) term “Jew hatred”.
It’s not quite that simple. “Antisemitism” refers to a rather specific discourse which has evolved through the history of Europe and then other places. The point about using that word is that it’s not random hatred of Jews (nor necessarily hatred: racism can’t always be boiled down to that simple emotion). It’s tapping into an already-existing set of ideas, expressions, stereotypes, etc., and adapting them to new contexts.
I know …. It’s not quite that simple…..
peace.
“Jew Hatred” works in a way that the thoroughly whored about till its legs fell off “anti-Semitism” (as in, the attempt on the part of anti-Semites Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice to inspire pogroms with their passion play, Jesus Christ Superstar, as documented in the older “The New Anti-Semitism”) doesn’t. We see no validity in Studebaker’s comments: does there exist any racism anywhere in the world that does not meet all those conditions? Isn’t there an American racist mythology about the rape-driven black man? Besides, “Jew Hatred” is a real phrase and “anti-Semitism” is the bastard son of an anti-Semite who helped provide pseudoscientific basis for it.
(And also, it would kill that irritating bit about Arabs being also victims but wait “anti-Semitiswm” is proprietarily Jewish just because etc etc etc.)
Jew Hatred” works in a way that the thoroughly whored about till its legs fell off “anti-Semitism” … doesn’t. Well, duh. Different things work differently. Um…
We see no validity in Studebaker’s comments: does there exist any racism anywhere in the world that does not meet all those conditions? Isn’t there an American racist mythology about the rape-driven black man? Do you mean, don’t all racisms have histories? Um, yeah. You’ve stumbled on something profound here.
And also, it would kill that irritating bit about Arabs being also victims but wait “anti-Semitiswm” is proprietarily Jewish just because etc etc etc.) Wow. Chip. Shoulder. News: we’re all entitled to all the I’m-a-victim self-pity we can handle. Jews, Arabs, Bosnians, Bloggers… and the great thing is that there are so many words out there to do it with, too! It’s magical. Entire dictionaries, I’ve heard. Er, we’ve heard.
I don’t think you should take Jpost seriously. Harretz doesn’t ever deviate from the jpost line on foreign antisemitism either. This quote was taken out of context, and then the headline spun it so you would get the impression he was justifying suicide bombers. Saying you understand what motivates them is certainly not justifying, and his quotes about the motives of the London bombers don’t make his statements aren’t really contradictary.
totally not surprising their codfish headed mayor spewed such drudge. according to the bbc, a newssource unfit to wipe my rosy bottom with, even blair made a boob faced remark about it saying “there is no excuse for terror whether in palestine, iraq, egypt” …there is no such thing as palestine you bloody british sod.
these euro numbskulls drive me to drink………….
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