It’s always fun to pretend complex issues are black-and-white 😛 … Anyway, I don’t think the biblical-right-to-Israe l debate is equivalent to historical attempts to justify *murder* or *slavery*. I’m not saying all Jewish claims to Israel are perfectly moral, but… still not the same thing as claiming that a scripture allows blatant harm to, or death of, other people.
so i guess the point of this cartoon is that muslim murderes of 9/11 and their overwhelming support within the current muslim community, those who believed in slavery 150 years ago, and today’s zionists are all the same. is it just me or is there a certain moral sickness, a certain soul destroying antisemitism displayed in this cartoon?
Actually, Avigreen, I think it says a lot, that the worst “abuses” of Islam and Christianity are so much “darker” than the worst they could come up with for Judaism ;p. No need to find anti-semitism lurking in every nook and cranny, you can find it well enough otherwise.
and making that cartoon even sicker is the historical fact that the founders of israel were secular, not religious (in fact as anyone who has take a class in me studies – at other than columbia and other muslim controlled programs – will vouch, probably the majority of the religious were neutral or anti the founding of the state, on the basis it was to founded by g-d, not man). folks, read that cartoon again, you are looking at the evil expression of an evil man
but now there are people in israel who point to the torah when claiming gaza and the west bank. why should “the fact that the founders of israel were secular” stop someone from criticizing a modern religious trend in israel – the cartoon doesn’t demand that we think of the guy saying “the torah says this land is ours!” as the israeli-everyman, any more than it demands that we should think of the guy saying “the koran says we can kill the infidels!” as the muslim-everyman.
avigreen loves to shout antisemitism. a lot of people do.
let’s all do it together, ANTISEMITISM ANTISEMITISM ANTISEMITISM ANTISEMITISM ANTISEMITISM. wow. that feels great. now lets call other people evil. evil evil evil evil evil evil evil.
not as fun. next time i’ll scream that one. seriously don’t you get tired of saying it?
If slavery is the darkest time for Christianity I guess they forgot about the time they were sticking Jews in ovens. I think this is a despicable cartoon. It says to me that those who support and want a Jewish homeland, a most tiny of slivers of land in the world mind you, are akin to slave trading and homicidial bombers. That is BS!
Muslims have 22 countries around the world were they can live under muslim laws, Christians can live in most all other nations barring certain ones in Africa, China, North Korea, Cuba etc. and practice their faith freely. Jews have the ability to live in only a few countries around the world and not be spit upon, have crosses burned in their front yards and practice their religion without having a grand faction of people try to dissuade them or convert them etc. And by the way, the US is where crosses are burning and most all of Europe is where strident antisemitism is on parade daily.
Jews need an Israel not for luxury, but for survival. It is too bad the world can’t see that but it is from the world that Jews are trying to protect themselves from to begin with.
lighten up! the jew is not the only one made to look nuts. and the signs point to gush katif and the west bank and people there really have (had) guns and really say that. before yom kippur maybe try looking at faults in ourselves and not others for a change.
i’m gonna go and convince some of my jewish friends that it’s important to tip cabbies and bartenders (my personal contribution to fighting antisemitism.) a word that is a bunch of horseshit.
Emilia,
Gaza and the so called West bank are only the beginning. We gave too much and shouldn’t have done it. We’ve only empowered Hamas, et al to look to Jerusalem next and the rest of Israel for more concessions. We’ve also given them the ability to take this pullout as a sign of weakness and a template for more land give aways. The palestinian issue could have been solved decades ago by moving them into Jordan which was formed in 1948 for the sole purpose of a arab state for those living in palestine. Israel is too small to give pieces away willy nilly. If you were talking about the former Soviet Union fine, but you are talking about a country you can cover up with a finger on any world map and a country surrounded by enemies.
Why do you use Yom kippur as another tool to beat up on Jews? The only introspection we should be doing is that we should be tougher than we are and not let the world steamroll us on the very existence of Israel. We’re not the ones imposing ourselves on the world, it is the other way around. Perhaps you don’t see that on a daily basis because you are insulated.
By the way, antisemitism has been around a lot longer than cabbies and bartenders not being tipped. I find it disturbing you can belittle a subject that has touched practically every Jew in the world at one time or another. You liberal Jews are a truly self hating bunch. You’re so dismissive of the world around you and do more to add to Jewish misery rather than diminish it.
the antisemitism of the cartoon is that it equates jews who believe that the disputed territories belong to israel with the muslim murderes of innocent civilians. in the words of the cartoon, al queda = jews who believe the west bank should be part of israel. to spell it out for those a little hard of hearing, if you believe in an israel inclusive of the west bank, you have the same moral attribute as the 9/11 murderers. now, who other than a jew hater would take that position – thats not seeing antisemites under every bedpost.
What avi is (purposefully and dishonestly) overlooking is that the ‘settler’ in the cartoon has a gun and a torch. It’s clearly not about belief as much as it’s about violence justified on fundamentalist beliefs.
yes john, your analytical abilities so far surpass my own i must appoligize – all i was able to notice were the words spoken by the morally equivalent characters, the muslim said the koran justified killing infidels, the jew said the westbank is ours. ii clearly should have disregarded the spoken (in the cartoon) words the author put forth – tell me john, is that something you learned at columbia? perhaps michigan? berkeley? san francisco state? for the rest of us who live in this universe, may i suggest some excellent sites to see what our enemies are up to: littlegreenfootballs.co m; campuswatch.org; camera.org; and israpundit.com
John, the image of the Jew in the cartoon is a stereotypical image of a Jew. Everyone can denote the Orthodox Jew by their peculiar dress etc. That image in the cartoon isn’t the so called settler, it is Jewry worldwide but mostly those who live in Israel. Face it, the cartoonist and those who support the garbage he is putting out is simply applying a bullseye to Jews of all stripes no matter if they are orthodox, reconstructionists or secular. My interpretation of the cartoon is that a Zionist is as a rabid in this cartoonist’s warped mind as a homicidal murdering muslim or a southerner supporting states rights as was the cause of the US civil war. As a southerner and as a Jew, I take offense to both images actually. I don’t recall the bible being the driving force of slavery in the south. I do recall that industry, especially agriculture, was the driving force of using slavery in the south. Only after the industrial revolution did slavery become obsolete. Actually, they should have had blacks today in Sudan represented as slave owners since it is still going on in that country. Where is the outrage in that fact?
1) yeah that is a haredi jew not a settler
2) you zionists should be able to base your claim to israel’s land rights on something other than the torah if you are participating in public debate
3) if you can’t, your claim is as flimsy as those other claims, whether marginally muslim or marginally christian
Sam, how about the fact that Jews have been in Israel for damn near 5000 yrs in one form or fashion? How about the fact that all of the sacred sites in Israel from the western wall, the tomb of the ancients etc have muslim mosques built ON TOP of them. If you know anything about archeology, those who are at the bottom of the pile are the oldest, PERIOD!
The third temple will hopefully be built in my lifetime. I would just love to see the expression of all of those around the world who support the overthrow of Israel and the muslims around the world who love to toss candy and dance in the streets at Israel or the US’s expense when it does finally happen.
2) you zionists should be able to base your claim to israel’s land rights on something other than the torah if you are participating in public debate
“Hartford Courant” != “you Zionists”. You anti-Zionists should be able to build logical chains without such enormous floying leaps.
(What? “Sam” != “you anti-Zionists”? Walla shatur! Folks here are so … precious.)
John Brown
First off love and peace.
The equation of “Jewish extremist settlers” who are 98% peaceful people who work hard to pay their bills, and take care of their family and brethren, to Hamas terrorists is reprehensible. Anyone who feels this way is twisted.
One who is willing to strap explosives to his/her self/child and blow up innocent people in order to sleep with 72 virgins that is the same as burning tires and wearing orange. Right.
John, I presume you are Jewish. You are blind and it is a pity.
what’s unfortunate about “right wing folks” is that “they” refuse to take a new look at problems that haven’t been solved the old way. that’s all, being scared and screaming ANTISEMITISM any time someone new tries to understand you, not allowing any criticism, it just serves to alienate us. one of the bigger problems that the cartoon identifies is that that stereotyped guy, the one in the cartoon, (lets call him religious guy) doesn’t have an argument so he shouts that the torah gives him a right to be there. ok, when pressed y’all come up with some exciting and thought provoking answers. but it always comes back to this land is our land, this land is our land from gush katif to the golan heights and the third temple is going to come and make a me o so happy! e e. but wait. come back to earth, calm down, and talk to the nice people without calling them all antisemites -you can do it! and people can see what a nice bunch of facts you’ve picked up. we’re not enemies and don’t label me as such, i just see more of the other perspective and think it’s embarrasing to hear you calling everyone antisemites. it’s lame and old and what not.
“right wing folks” – substitute another caricature – are not all the right wing folks who may have failed to solve a problem in a “right wing” way and even fewer of the remaining folks so labled are scared or incapable of solving problems.
it’s not screaming antisemitism to point this out. it is antisemitism to suggest an equality between the bad caricatures presented of different “right wings”
the guy who raises his children to blow themselves up is warmly portrayed as a zombie.
the rebel is a laughable dope waving a clearly ideological flag.
the Jew is an Orthodox Jew with a gun and a torch (wha…?) standing between Gaza and the west bank
Englehart isn’t saying a freaking thing here about inteligent design
poor comic design, yes
Yeah, ultimately this cartoon doesn’t do anything except perpetuate a stereotype and draw bizarre, unfounded analogies between totally incomparable situations. The title of “intelligent design” is indeed ironic, as this does nothing to further intelligent debate of a complex issue. The more I think about it, the more I don’t know why Jewschool bothered posting this.
Jeez, its FUNNY, laugh.
This is not an essay arguing DEEP ideas, its a freaking cartoon (a media which typically deals in caricatures exaggerations for humorous effect).
Anyway in this cartoon I would argue that the Mulims and Christians got slammed a lot harder than Jews.
Emelia, doesn’t it get old apologizing for your enemy? You know, the ones who get in the streets with laughter, jubulation, dancing, passing out candy etc when something bad happens to Israel or the US? The same ones who teach their children practically from birth to hate Jews and Israel and to dress them up as little terrorist bombers.
It is the left leaning Jews in the midst that really screw things up for all of Judaism. You guys are the ones the media likes to focus on as the true thinkers and followers of Judaism. You talk down Israel, pump up arabs and run against the grain of what should be happening in Israel. In fact, the reformniks and conservative leaders from the US just this past week said that they think there is room for discussion of a palestinian state.
Please, that is what transJordan was all about in 1948, a place for displaced arabs in Israel. No they got greedy and decided to rub out the Jews right then and guess what, they were defeated and that is why Israel is around today.
Stop playing for the other team. You are either for Israel or you are against it. If you are against it, give up your religion and put a burka on because frankly the only difference in your stance is the headcovering.
Anon — Jeez, its FUNNY, laugh.
OK, the thing is, this cartoon’s not even funny. 😛 I can handle being offended if something is actually hilarious. But… do you honestly laugh after seeing this? I understand the concept of not taking political cartoons seriously, but this isn’t funny OR deep, it’s just… blecchh. So who cares? Why waste space on this cartoon?
Face it, it’s just not a GOOD cartoon, any way you wanna slice it.
“You are either for Israel or you are against it.”
Ah, bi-polar thinking, how I love you. As in “bipolar disorder.”
By all means, let’s not allow any dissent whatsoever within the Jewish community. Let’s all think the same and talk the same. Ein volk, ein–
Oh, wait…
There is a problem of Jews who see politics only through a religious lens. But what the cartoonist is doing here is comparing Jewish settlers in Gaza to slaveowners and Islamist terrorists. Did I miss something here? Brown, do you really mean to tell me that you approve of some moron comparing settling in land captured by your army in a war of defense (although you somehow say otherwise) to some of the worst acts of evil and dehumanization that this world has ever witnessed? Moral equivalence at its worst. I don’t doubt that religious fundamentalism is a problem to all religions. But it is just wrong to say that Judaism’s version of extremism is as destructive and evil as that of other religions.
Judging from this and your other posts, Brown, you are an Uri Avnery-wannabe sellout Jew. No matter how left-wing your politics get, you should always remain loyal to your people. Jews like you want to sell us out.
wow that was harsh. maybe i should read what i write before i post it. you get the basic idea though.
and btw, avigreen, campuswatch and camera only make us look worse because people getting yelled at by them, even when those groups are right, just see a bunch of angry right-wing jews who demand nothing less than 100% pro-israel reporting. they get just about nothing done.
pure der sturmer circa 1939 a streotypical depiction the Jews as the “other” who only wants to steal and gain power how crude can your tastes become John Brown or should I call you Daniel Balint
Thanks dybbukingolem for injecting little balance, and Emilia, welcome to the lions’ den…
Lighten up folks, will ya? OK – so this is not the funniest cartoon to start with. But it does not draw parallels of severity as much as it frowns upon present days difficulties born of ancient texts. It uses stereotypes indeed – in itself a very relevant issue for us to ponder: to most people watching the news out there, the conflict in the Middle East is as confounding as the Balkans. The subtleties of who’s who and why – to the average consumer of mass media – are simply non existent. As an interesting point in reference, consider the fact that most commentators above took by default the Arab figure to mean a terrorist (in the cartoon there is no mention of terrorism – it denotes the controversial Koranic verses on relationship to infidels). To expect most people watching the evacuation of Gaza to differentiate those resisting to be this kind of Yeshiva bochers and not that kind is simply daft.
Yes, maybe cutting thousands of olive trees, confiscating agricultural lands and keeping millions of people under a military rule does not equal the stupidity of terror and slavery. Maybe, territorial disputes, born out of survival instincts and our own displacement, are arguably lesser than the perceived annihilation touted by the ‘Oh we are but one small country surrounded by enemies’ and the ‘with us or against us’ schools. Maybe – because one can argue that it is perceived, but that might not alleviate the fears of the perceiver…. But it is a tragic situation, misunderstood by most people and fairly judged by almost none. To knee jerk the old Anti-Semitism call-for-arm is as blatantly crude as to say all Muslims are terrorists and all Christians are slave-masters. That it not what the cartoons says – it points out that in the process of religion indoctrination, the intelligence of identifying that which is allows for a conscious evolution of ideas towards a better model of tolerance and governance is at threat. Having women ordained as priests in church – or becoming Rabbis for that matter – might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it is a toast to striving for a just and reasonable paradigm of co-existence, just as children rights, universal access to voting, the Geneva convention, war crime tribunals, and the Kyoto protocols are steps towards a happier and equal society.
Hrm, so it would seem that the preferred means of deep social commentary is through cartoons, so why not add one more to the fray. linky
John, you should probably study this cartoon. You’ll notice that the plausability of a hand coming out of the ground is slim. Additionally, the hand is not nearly decayed enough.
Komai–Your comment above is the most balanced, thoughtful and insightful yet. See, folks? It’s possible to post here and say something original and nuanced, instead of trotting out the old “Zionists are always right” OR “Zionists are always wrong” banalities.
Personally, I think the analogy Bob Englehart makes is a somewhat false one. I don’t equate people who use their religious texts to kill and enslave people with people who use their religious texts to lay a false claim to land.
Besides, most Jews don’t lay a Biblical claim to the land of Israel. Their claims are based in international law, and, more importantly, cultural ties that go back well over 2500 years. Many fundamentalists in the Middle East make similar claims like the one of the Haredi Jew (which on the whole are actually not settlers), mainly the land is theirs because of ancient caliphates ruling over the area.
The point is that religious claims mean squat, and only practical claims mean something. Both Jews and Palestinians have both, and it’s important to recognize that.
i want to preface by saying i agree with jared.
sorry beau, i don’t have an enemy. it’s your enemy and i’m dragged into it because i am jewish and religious. you’ve got a lot of gall to throw the problems on the “left wing jews” we’re all in this together. we’re very different.. i’m hearing a lot of knee jerk reactions, but guess what? this is gods world. we just act out his drama. i have too much going on in my life to waste energy hating people or being paranoid that they hate me. when are you going to learn? you want me to learn that they really do want to kill me. they all do right? i can’t trust any of “them”
do something about your fear, you don’t have to live like this. and if you choose not to listen to me even just a little bit. do me a favor and hold off just once a day calling something antisemitic. you’ll be amazed how many other options become open to you.
jared: how are cultural ties any more real that religious ties? i wouldn’t argue that either doesn’t exist – but they still both only exist in human heads.
1) It’s morally wrong to kill people because they have different beliefs than your own.
2) It’s morally wrong to own another person.
3) Owning land is morally wrong? (What’s the cartoonist’s address?)
Uh, who said Christians put Jews in ovens? If that’s a Holocaust reference, it’s blantently incorrect. The NAZIs weren’t collectively a part of any religion. I’ve heard Hitler was a quarter Jewish, for G-d’s sake.
In any case, it is just a cartoon. I’m sure that the cartoonist wasn’t hunched over his sketch book, thinking, “Hmmmm, now how can I inconspicuously slam those damn Jews?” If that was the case, he’d more than likely have cut the Muslim and Christian references, and instead titled the cartoon something like, “Arguing over an inch of land?”
Not that the West Bank doesn’t belong to Isreal, but saything that the Jews need it to have a sanctuary to practice religion is absurd. I practice just fine, thanks, where I live. Nobody throwing bricks with crosses carved in them through my window when my Channukah decor is up.
SOME people dislike Jews. SOME people dislike Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, or Atheists. Some people dislike certain cheeses. But screaming antisemitism every time something hits a little too close to home is..well, getting a tad ridiculous, fellows. Yeah, they’re making fun of us. Oh, well. It’s TRUE isn’t it? That’s what we’re doing, isn’t it? So why not sit back and make fun of ourselves for once?
what paper is this from?
it was published in the Hartford Courant.. The cartoons is by a cartoonist named Bob Englehart
It’s always fun to pretend complex issues are black-and-white 😛 … Anyway, I don’t think the biblical-right-to-Israe l debate is equivalent to historical attempts to justify *murder* or *slavery*. I’m not saying all Jewish claims to Israel are perfectly moral, but… still not the same thing as claiming that a scripture allows blatant harm to, or death of, other people.
so i guess the point of this cartoon is that muslim murderes of 9/11 and their overwhelming support within the current muslim community, those who believed in slavery 150 years ago, and today’s zionists are all the same. is it just me or is there a certain moral sickness, a certain soul destroying antisemitism displayed in this cartoon?
Actually, Avigreen, I think it says a lot, that the worst “abuses” of Islam and Christianity are so much “darker” than the worst they could come up with for Judaism ;p. No need to find anti-semitism lurking in every nook and cranny, you can find it well enough otherwise.
and making that cartoon even sicker is the historical fact that the founders of israel were secular, not religious (in fact as anyone who has take a class in me studies – at other than columbia and other muslim controlled programs – will vouch, probably the majority of the religious were neutral or anti the founding of the state, on the basis it was to founded by g-d, not man). folks, read that cartoon again, you are looking at the evil expression of an evil man
but now there are people in israel who point to the torah when claiming gaza and the west bank. why should “the fact that the founders of israel were secular” stop someone from criticizing a modern religious trend in israel – the cartoon doesn’t demand that we think of the guy saying “the torah says this land is ours!” as the israeli-everyman, any more than it demands that we should think of the guy saying “the koran says we can kill the infidels!” as the muslim-everyman.
avigreen loves to shout antisemitism. a lot of people do.
let’s all do it together, ANTISEMITISM ANTISEMITISM ANTISEMITISM ANTISEMITISM ANTISEMITISM. wow. that feels great. now lets call other people evil. evil evil evil evil evil evil evil.
not as fun. next time i’ll scream that one. seriously don’t you get tired of saying it?
If slavery is the darkest time for Christianity I guess they forgot about the time they were sticking Jews in ovens. I think this is a despicable cartoon. It says to me that those who support and want a Jewish homeland, a most tiny of slivers of land in the world mind you, are akin to slave trading and homicidial bombers. That is BS!
Muslims have 22 countries around the world were they can live under muslim laws, Christians can live in most all other nations barring certain ones in Africa, China, North Korea, Cuba etc. and practice their faith freely. Jews have the ability to live in only a few countries around the world and not be spit upon, have crosses burned in their front yards and practice their religion without having a grand faction of people try to dissuade them or convert them etc. And by the way, the US is where crosses are burning and most all of Europe is where strident antisemitism is on parade daily.
Jews need an Israel not for luxury, but for survival. It is too bad the world can’t see that but it is from the world that Jews are trying to protect themselves from to begin with.
lighten up! the jew is not the only one made to look nuts. and the signs point to gush katif and the west bank and people there really have (had) guns and really say that. before yom kippur maybe try looking at faults in ourselves and not others for a change.
i’m gonna go and convince some of my jewish friends that it’s important to tip cabbies and bartenders (my personal contribution to fighting antisemitism.) a word that is a bunch of horseshit.
Emilia,
Gaza and the so called West bank are only the beginning. We gave too much and shouldn’t have done it. We’ve only empowered Hamas, et al to look to Jerusalem next and the rest of Israel for more concessions. We’ve also given them the ability to take this pullout as a sign of weakness and a template for more land give aways. The palestinian issue could have been solved decades ago by moving them into Jordan which was formed in 1948 for the sole purpose of a arab state for those living in palestine. Israel is too small to give pieces away willy nilly. If you were talking about the former Soviet Union fine, but you are talking about a country you can cover up with a finger on any world map and a country surrounded by enemies.
Why do you use Yom kippur as another tool to beat up on Jews? The only introspection we should be doing is that we should be tougher than we are and not let the world steamroll us on the very existence of Israel. We’re not the ones imposing ourselves on the world, it is the other way around. Perhaps you don’t see that on a daily basis because you are insulated.
By the way, antisemitism has been around a lot longer than cabbies and bartenders not being tipped. I find it disturbing you can belittle a subject that has touched practically every Jew in the world at one time or another. You liberal Jews are a truly self hating bunch. You’re so dismissive of the world around you and do more to add to Jewish misery rather than diminish it.
the antisemitism of the cartoon is that it equates jews who believe that the disputed territories belong to israel with the muslim murderes of innocent civilians. in the words of the cartoon, al queda = jews who believe the west bank should be part of israel. to spell it out for those a little hard of hearing, if you believe in an israel inclusive of the west bank, you have the same moral attribute as the 9/11 murderers. now, who other than a jew hater would take that position – thats not seeing antisemites under every bedpost.
What avi is (purposefully and dishonestly) overlooking is that the ‘settler’ in the cartoon has a gun and a torch. It’s clearly not about belief as much as it’s about violence justified on fundamentalist beliefs.
yes john, your analytical abilities so far surpass my own i must appoligize – all i was able to notice were the words spoken by the morally equivalent characters, the muslim said the koran justified killing infidels, the jew said the westbank is ours. ii clearly should have disregarded the spoken (in the cartoon) words the author put forth – tell me john, is that something you learned at columbia? perhaps michigan? berkeley? san francisco state? for the rest of us who live in this universe, may i suggest some excellent sites to see what our enemies are up to: littlegreenfootballs.co m; campuswatch.org; camera.org; and israpundit.com
John, the image of the Jew in the cartoon is a stereotypical image of a Jew. Everyone can denote the Orthodox Jew by their peculiar dress etc. That image in the cartoon isn’t the so called settler, it is Jewry worldwide but mostly those who live in Israel. Face it, the cartoonist and those who support the garbage he is putting out is simply applying a bullseye to Jews of all stripes no matter if they are orthodox, reconstructionists or secular. My interpretation of the cartoon is that a Zionist is as a rabid in this cartoonist’s warped mind as a homicidal murdering muslim or a southerner supporting states rights as was the cause of the US civil war. As a southerner and as a Jew, I take offense to both images actually. I don’t recall the bible being the driving force of slavery in the south. I do recall that industry, especially agriculture, was the driving force of using slavery in the south. Only after the industrial revolution did slavery become obsolete. Actually, they should have had blacks today in Sudan represented as slave owners since it is still going on in that country. Where is the outrage in that fact?
1) yeah that is a haredi jew not a settler
2) you zionists should be able to base your claim to israel’s land rights on something other than the torah if you are participating in public debate
3) if you can’t, your claim is as flimsy as those other claims, whether marginally muslim or marginally christian
Sam, how about the fact that Jews have been in Israel for damn near 5000 yrs in one form or fashion? How about the fact that all of the sacred sites in Israel from the western wall, the tomb of the ancients etc have muslim mosques built ON TOP of them. If you know anything about archeology, those who are at the bottom of the pile are the oldest, PERIOD!
The third temple will hopefully be built in my lifetime. I would just love to see the expression of all of those around the world who support the overthrow of Israel and the muslims around the world who love to toss candy and dance in the streets at Israel or the US’s expense when it does finally happen.
2) you zionists should be able to base your claim to israel’s land rights on something other than the torah if you are participating in public debate
“Hartford Courant” != “you Zionists”. You anti-Zionists should be able to build logical chains without such enormous floying leaps.
(What? “Sam” != “you anti-Zionists”? Walla shatur! Folks here are so … precious.)
Englehart (if it is any consolation) has always been a [sic] equal opportunity relativist.
This one is better!
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yi…
John Brown
First off love and peace.
The equation of “Jewish extremist settlers” who are 98% peaceful people who work hard to pay their bills, and take care of their family and brethren, to Hamas terrorists is reprehensible. Anyone who feels this way is twisted.
One who is willing to strap explosives to his/her self/child and blow up innocent people in order to sleep with 72 virgins that is the same as burning tires and wearing orange. Right.
John, I presume you are Jewish. You are blind and it is a pity.
what’s unfortunate about “right wing folks” is that “they” refuse to take a new look at problems that haven’t been solved the old way. that’s all, being scared and screaming ANTISEMITISM any time someone new tries to understand you, not allowing any criticism, it just serves to alienate us. one of the bigger problems that the cartoon identifies is that that stereotyped guy, the one in the cartoon, (lets call him religious guy) doesn’t have an argument so he shouts that the torah gives him a right to be there. ok, when pressed y’all come up with some exciting and thought provoking answers. but it always comes back to this land is our land, this land is our land from gush katif to the golan heights and the third temple is going to come and make a me o so happy! e e. but wait. come back to earth, calm down, and talk to the nice people without calling them all antisemites -you can do it! and people can see what a nice bunch of facts you’ve picked up. we’re not enemies and don’t label me as such, i just see more of the other perspective and think it’s embarrasing to hear you calling everyone antisemites. it’s lame and old and what not.
“right wing folks” – substitute another caricature – are not all the right wing folks who may have failed to solve a problem in a “right wing” way and even fewer of the remaining folks so labled are scared or incapable of solving problems.
it’s not screaming antisemitism to point this out. it is antisemitism to suggest an equality between the bad caricatures presented of different “right wings”
the guy who raises his children to blow themselves up is warmly portrayed as a zombie.
the rebel is a laughable dope waving a clearly ideological flag.
the Jew is an Orthodox Jew with a gun and a torch (wha…?) standing between Gaza and the west bank
Englehart isn’t saying a freaking thing here about inteligent design
poor comic design, yes
Despicable cartoon.
Yeah, ultimately this cartoon doesn’t do anything except perpetuate a stereotype and draw bizarre, unfounded analogies between totally incomparable situations. The title of “intelligent design” is indeed ironic, as this does nothing to further intelligent debate of a complex issue. The more I think about it, the more I don’t know why Jewschool bothered posting this.
Jeez, its FUNNY, laugh.
This is not an essay arguing DEEP ideas, its a freaking cartoon (a media which typically deals in caricatures exaggerations for humorous effect).
Anyway in this cartoon I would argue that the Mulims and Christians got slammed a lot harder than Jews.
Emelia, doesn’t it get old apologizing for your enemy? You know, the ones who get in the streets with laughter, jubulation, dancing, passing out candy etc when something bad happens to Israel or the US? The same ones who teach their children practically from birth to hate Jews and Israel and to dress them up as little terrorist bombers.
It is the left leaning Jews in the midst that really screw things up for all of Judaism. You guys are the ones the media likes to focus on as the true thinkers and followers of Judaism. You talk down Israel, pump up arabs and run against the grain of what should be happening in Israel. In fact, the reformniks and conservative leaders from the US just this past week said that they think there is room for discussion of a palestinian state.
Please, that is what transJordan was all about in 1948, a place for displaced arabs in Israel. No they got greedy and decided to rub out the Jews right then and guess what, they were defeated and that is why Israel is around today.
Stop playing for the other team. You are either for Israel or you are against it. If you are against it, give up your religion and put a burka on because frankly the only difference in your stance is the headcovering.
Anon — Jeez, its FUNNY, laugh.
OK, the thing is, this cartoon’s not even funny. 😛 I can handle being offended if something is actually hilarious. But… do you honestly laugh after seeing this? I understand the concept of not taking political cartoons seriously, but this isn’t funny OR deep, it’s just… blecchh. So who cares? Why waste space on this cartoon?
Face it, it’s just not a GOOD cartoon, any way you wanna slice it.
“You are either for Israel or you are against it.”
Ah, bi-polar thinking, how I love you. As in “bipolar disorder.”
By all means, let’s not allow any dissent whatsoever within the Jewish community. Let’s all think the same and talk the same. Ein volk, ein–
Oh, wait…
There is a problem of Jews who see politics only through a religious lens. But what the cartoonist is doing here is comparing Jewish settlers in Gaza to slaveowners and Islamist terrorists. Did I miss something here? Brown, do you really mean to tell me that you approve of some moron comparing settling in land captured by your army in a war of defense (although you somehow say otherwise) to some of the worst acts of evil and dehumanization that this world has ever witnessed? Moral equivalence at its worst. I don’t doubt that religious fundamentalism is a problem to all religions. But it is just wrong to say that Judaism’s version of extremism is as destructive and evil as that of other religions.
Judging from this and your other posts, Brown, you are an Uri Avnery-wannabe sellout Jew. No matter how left-wing your politics get, you should always remain loyal to your people. Jews like you want to sell us out.
wow that was harsh. maybe i should read what i write before i post it. you get the basic idea though.
and btw, avigreen, campuswatch and camera only make us look worse because people getting yelled at by them, even when those groups are right, just see a bunch of angry right-wing jews who demand nothing less than 100% pro-israel reporting. they get just about nothing done.
pure der sturmer circa 1939 a streotypical depiction the Jews as the “other” who only wants to steal and gain power how crude can your tastes become John Brown or should I call you Daniel Balint
Thanks dybbukingolem for injecting little balance, and Emilia, welcome to the lions’ den…
Lighten up folks, will ya? OK – so this is not the funniest cartoon to start with. But it does not draw parallels of severity as much as it frowns upon present days difficulties born of ancient texts. It uses stereotypes indeed – in itself a very relevant issue for us to ponder: to most people watching the news out there, the conflict in the Middle East is as confounding as the Balkans. The subtleties of who’s who and why – to the average consumer of mass media – are simply non existent. As an interesting point in reference, consider the fact that most commentators above took by default the Arab figure to mean a terrorist (in the cartoon there is no mention of terrorism – it denotes the controversial Koranic verses on relationship to infidels). To expect most people watching the evacuation of Gaza to differentiate those resisting to be this kind of Yeshiva bochers and not that kind is simply daft.
Yes, maybe cutting thousands of olive trees, confiscating agricultural lands and keeping millions of people under a military rule does not equal the stupidity of terror and slavery. Maybe, territorial disputes, born out of survival instincts and our own displacement, are arguably lesser than the perceived annihilation touted by the ‘Oh we are but one small country surrounded by enemies’ and the ‘with us or against us’ schools. Maybe – because one can argue that it is perceived, but that might not alleviate the fears of the perceiver…. But it is a tragic situation, misunderstood by most people and fairly judged by almost none. To knee jerk the old Anti-Semitism call-for-arm is as blatantly crude as to say all Muslims are terrorists and all Christians are slave-masters. That it not what the cartoons says – it points out that in the process of religion indoctrination, the intelligence of identifying that which is allows for a conscious evolution of ideas towards a better model of tolerance and governance is at threat. Having women ordained as priests in church – or becoming Rabbis for that matter – might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it is a toast to striving for a just and reasonable paradigm of co-existence, just as children rights, universal access to voting, the Geneva convention, war crime tribunals, and the Kyoto protocols are steps towards a happier and equal society.
Hrm, so it would seem that the preferred means of deep social commentary is through cartoons, so why not add one more to the fray.
linky
John, you should probably study this cartoon. You’ll notice that the plausability of a hand coming out of the ground is slim. Additionally, the hand is not nearly decayed enough.
Komai–Your comment above is the most balanced, thoughtful and insightful yet. See, folks? It’s possible to post here and say something original and nuanced, instead of trotting out the old “Zionists are always right” OR “Zionists are always wrong” banalities.
Personally, I think the analogy Bob Englehart makes is a somewhat false one. I don’t equate people who use their religious texts to kill and enslave people with people who use their religious texts to lay a false claim to land.
Besides, most Jews don’t lay a Biblical claim to the land of Israel. Their claims are based in international law, and, more importantly, cultural ties that go back well over 2500 years. Many fundamentalists in the Middle East make similar claims like the one of the Haredi Jew (which on the whole are actually not settlers), mainly the land is theirs because of ancient caliphates ruling over the area.
The point is that religious claims mean squat, and only practical claims mean something. Both Jews and Palestinians have both, and it’s important to recognize that.
i want to preface by saying i agree with jared.
sorry beau, i don’t have an enemy. it’s your enemy and i’m dragged into it because i am jewish and religious. you’ve got a lot of gall to throw the problems on the “left wing jews” we’re all in this together. we’re very different.. i’m hearing a lot of knee jerk reactions, but guess what? this is gods world. we just act out his drama. i have too much going on in my life to waste energy hating people or being paranoid that they hate me. when are you going to learn? you want me to learn that they really do want to kill me. they all do right? i can’t trust any of “them”
do something about your fear, you don’t have to live like this. and if you choose not to listen to me even just a little bit. do me a favor and hold off just once a day calling something antisemitic. you’ll be amazed how many other options become open to you.
jared: how are cultural ties any more real that religious ties? i wouldn’t argue that either doesn’t exist – but they still both only exist in human heads.
1) It’s morally wrong to kill people because they have different beliefs than your own.
2) It’s morally wrong to own another person.
3) Owning land is morally wrong? (What’s the cartoonist’s address?)
Uh, who said Christians put Jews in ovens? If that’s a Holocaust reference, it’s blantently incorrect. The NAZIs weren’t collectively a part of any religion. I’ve heard Hitler was a quarter Jewish, for G-d’s sake.
In any case, it is just a cartoon. I’m sure that the cartoonist wasn’t hunched over his sketch book, thinking, “Hmmmm, now how can I inconspicuously slam those damn Jews?” If that was the case, he’d more than likely have cut the Muslim and Christian references, and instead titled the cartoon something like, “Arguing over an inch of land?”
Not that the West Bank doesn’t belong to Isreal, but saything that the Jews need it to have a sanctuary to practice religion is absurd. I practice just fine, thanks, where I live. Nobody throwing bricks with crosses carved in them through my window when my Channukah decor is up.
SOME people dislike Jews. SOME people dislike Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, or Atheists. Some people dislike certain cheeses. But screaming antisemitism every time something hits a little too close to home is..well, getting a tad ridiculous, fellows. Yeah, they’re making fun of us. Oh, well. It’s TRUE isn’t it? That’s what we’re doing, isn’t it? So why not sit back and make fun of ourselves for once?