Christian Missionaries and Gilbert Gottfried
It looks like my last post on Jewschool brought Christian missionaries to this Jewish blog. So I’d like to pose the following question to Jewish readers. Christians and “Messianic Jews” who accept Christian beliefs are not welcome to respond even if they consider their rejection of thousands of years of Jewish tradition to make them “complete Jews”.
So here’s the question. Which is more tasteless and offensive: A missionary who tells you that every Jewish ancestor of yours for the past two thousand years is burning in hell for not accepting Jesus as their personal savior or the movie The Aristocrats?
I know. It’s a competition between those who burned in Auschwitz continuing to burn in hell and what Newsweek called “The first feel-good movie made out of fecal matter”. Tough call.
I’m truly honored to be the first poster on this string, and I would like to thank all those who read my posts till now.
Baruch Hashem who engraved in our souls the power to stand against the evil tide of xtianity from the day it began till now.
At every opportunity till now, they have pursued our souls and attempted to sway it from our Father in heaven, BUT OUR DIRECT RELATIONSHIP WITH G-D, THAT WHICH DEFINES A TRUE JEW, has kept our faith even when faced with death.
There is nothing more tasteless and offensive than someone who comes to your home and spreads filth and falsehood. If we went into their homes, asked them about their gods that would only be our fault, but for them to intrude our peace and our relationship with the one G-d, is the lowest of degraded behavior.
The Torah speaks so harshly against the incitor because this crime has effect on so many levels. Not only are they trying to cause spiritual harm to someone, they are also denying the Oneness and Omnipotence of G-d.
I must admit, it has been fun reading the posts and reading the idiotic justifications they have, but I am getting a bit bored of it.
I hope I am not only speaking for myself by saying they should all mind their own business and get off this website (and stop telling their friends to come too!).
The whole burning in hell thing is more offensive–but only because Sarah Silverman redeemed The Aristocrats. 🙂
What gets me is the continual love love love thing. If they really love me then leave me alone!
That’s why I have started to like you Moe, I can’t help but love your zeal for blasting x-tianity. Good work, and good post.
So, these two Xtian missionaries walk into a talent agents office. The agent’s Jewish, and he doesn’t want to have anything to do with them, but they persist and, frankly, the agent has gas from his heavy lunch, so he wants to keep people he cares about away from him for a little while. “Let’s see what you’ve got.” The Xtians proceed to enact the entire however many stations of the cross in a version that would make Mel Gibson seem Quaker. First, the one who plays Jesus disrobes and begins to miraculously fellate himself. The other dons Roman garb and begins whipping him with a spiked chain. Blood is puring down his back, over his neck as he fellates himself with blood splooshing around his mouth. The Jesus player then stands, bends forward and presents his rear to the agent. The agent thinks to himself, “I’m glad he didn’t have what I had for lunch.” The Roman then dons a lovely leather condom of sorts. He removes the metal spikes from the end of the whip, and one by one he attaches them by some sort of hook and eye mechanism to the leather condom. He then vigorously and with great shouts of anger and ecstasy beings to sodomize Jesus. Blood begins to run from Jesus’s rear, and pools up on the floor. After about ten minutes of this activity there is nothing left to the Saviours anus, and nearly nothing left of his rear end at all. The Roman then pummels the Saviour to the ground and begins peeling off Jesus’s skin with an oversized rusty carrot peeler. After happily removing all of the skin, he then stands, adjusts his tunic and urinates on Jesus. Jesus is of course nearly unconscious.. his body writhing in spasoms of the most excruciating pain imaginable. While the Roman then chews out the Savoiur’s toenails and spits them on the floor, Jesus finally orgasms, unleashing a torrent of semen all over the floor and walls of the office. The Roman then nails Jesus up to the cross, pokes him in the belly with the agent’s letter opener (he forgot his sword) and plugs the cord hanging from the crown of thorns (which, by the way, is barbed wire. Did I forget to mention that?). He plugs it into the light socket and Jesus’s head begins to smoke and sizzle because of the 110 volts of current. The Roman takes Jesus down from teh cross, slaps him until he awakens, and they both take a bow.
The agent says, “That’s horrible. What do you call it?”
They reply, harmonizing in unison, “A Faith Based on Love.”
damn homie. you’ve been reading too many old s. clay wilson comix.
As Jews we vehemently reject Xtianity. It is good to hear Jews do so openly and thoroughly on this website. But don’t insult the average Xtian – they are just believing what their parents taught them.
Salutations to the revelation at Sinai
Salutations to the revelation at Sinai?
“Christians and “Messianic Jews” who accept Christian beliefs are not welcome to respond even if they consider their rejection of thousands of years of Jewish tradition to make them “complete Jews”.”
Hmmm. So I guess being as childish and small-minded as you perceive your “enemy” to be is the answer. How very learned and courageous of you to actively bar discussion and maintain the homogenous rah-rah of this forum! It’s like you’re all on ‘repeat’!
And really, let’s talk tachles here.. you’re barring them because you’re scared of them. Not that you need to be. I would hope there is enough love and wisdom in the Jewish people to have a reasonable discussion that does not lower itself to mindless attacks, self-fellating and superiority complexes.
Seriously, I’d like to think that we all are more than a bunch of bitter jews, getting revenge for all the shit they put us through on these forums. So we got fucked up a few times? we always bounced back, and we never did what they did. Well, with the exception of you lot.
So much for hach’nasat orachim! Asitem lanu boosha kan! Ain l’achem shum musag. Ruk yod’im lakachat mishpatim min ha’Tanach v’lizrok ottam ke’rimonim el kol benadam sh’lo maskim itchem.
My guess is the missionaries and Messianics pushed a coupla buttons with you ladies. Buttons you couldn’t reason your way out of with your pop-maimonadiesm.
And y’know what: re-read the comments on the story that sparked it all. The Xtians and Messianicks were damn polite before getting zealous. Listen, they probably ARE a bunch of fundementalist yahoos but you so-called intelligencia of Heebs did yourself a disservice by getting all hot under the collar and acting like a bunch of jerks.
I mean that joker, AC, goes on here to say:
Baruch Hashem who engraved in our souls the power to stand against the evil tide of xtianity from the day it began till now.
At every opportunity till now, they have pursued our souls and attempted to sway it from our Father in heaven, BUT OUR DIRECT RELATIONSHIP WITH G-D, THAT WHICH DEFINES A TRUE JEW, has kept our faith even when faced with death.
Dude, have you lost your mind? Elitism runs contrary to our whole cause! Elitism is what produced Nazi Germany and the pogroms, because at its very nature is the dysfuntional logic that “we are better than them”. That “they” are evil. Dude, you sound more like a snake-charming pastor than a mensch to me.
Of course my argument here won’t do much good. You’re too stuck in your ghetto mentality.
Yes I am scared that they will spam the comments section like you just did.
But of course, I’m allowed to, being a “complete jew”…
That wasn’t spam. That was a kick in the pants.
La’vriut gever.
Actually Brent,
Assimilation, forgeting who we are is what brought the holocaust and pogroms ect.(according to my Rav, Avigdor Miller AH)
H-shem sent us reminders who we are.
We are the chosen nation, are we better? I wouldnt exactly use that term, how about different
we have a mission in this world, we are “A nation of kohanim”, “a light upon the nations”, “Israel is my first born”
to forget this or to deny it is to deny our mission in this world and to deny the word of G-d.
and, the term Hachnasat Orchim implies the action of inviting guests, not ones house being stormed by missionaries using offensive and imposing tactics trying to make us jesus lovin zombies.
One could argue that a lack of sufficient intermarriage and assimilation is what made the holocaust possible, and what makes the middle east conflict continue
hitler would have killed his mother john
he would have killed half the country for even a 1/4 jew
I don’t think assimilation or Jewish elitism caused the holocaust unless you want to count hitler’s racial elitism. It seems to me both explainations blame the victim. What is the point of doing that? Hitler was traditional antisemitism fueled by Eugenics, Social Darwinism and industrial technology. It wasn’t the Jews that caused it.
I also think talking to skinheads like Brent and Jak is about as fruitless as talking to evangelicals. Jews don’t have to defend their right to be Jews in the first place, nor do they have to defend their existence to anyone.
“So while Christians identify kindness as a function of their religion we Jews see it as a defining characteristic of humanity. It seems to be an even more basic aspect of existence.”
AC: I’m not pro-assimilation. but mainly because it tends to screw up relationships. i can’t begin to imagine what actually simmered in the mind of a psychopath like Hitler, but i don’t see the connection to assimilation – nor your argument’s merit.
At the core of Hach’nasat Orchim is humility. One which begets listening. You and your posse did neither. I truly feel you could have been less condeming and more reasoning. I’m sure you’re not a hateful, aggressive person in real life – then why become it on a forum with Xtians. They’re people too.
Daemocrat: dude, if i’m a skinhead, you’re illiterate. re-read my original post. There was nothing in it about defending one’s right to be Jewish or one’s existence. In fact, I suggested we not be scared of zealous missionaries, for we have no cause to. And if you’re not scared, you’re not defensive – as you perceive no threat. but what was clear from Ichayim’s two blogs was that his audience were very defensive and needed to attack others to make themselves feel better about themselves. On this forum they turned to exclamations of faith and devotion to defend from the phantom threat of the Xtians.
When will you get it? they don’t threaten us! And we don’t need to belittle them or inflate ourselves as compensation. We’re a proud and strong Jewish people! Can’t we have a polite debate with them that explains our position, listens to theirs, gives our perspective on it and respects the differences? Too much to ask?
Mobius: Ichayim has no business posting on this site with his racist agenda. It’s giving us a bad name.
Wow. Jews really do hate christians. And they really are revolting disgusting reprobates (see Judah Baer’s post).
And here I been thinking they were merely ugly self-righteous pricks.
Dear Kirstie,
No they don’t. And if you’re going to generalise that all Jews feel as the people you’re taking issue with here, than you’re no better than they are.
What’s more interesting is where your anger and fear comes from. Dig deep and I’ll think you’ll find it has more to do with your own sense of insecurity. I took my fellow Jews to task over their comments, and you’re fucking up much in the same way. If not worse.
There are Christians who hate Jews more vehemently than the discourse you read in Judah Baer’s post – does that mean that all Christians hate Jews, thus making themselves fake Christians (you’re supposed to “Love thy neighbour” without prejudice, last i heard).
To my fellow brothers and sisters: Kirstie is clearly trying to get you to say more shit and incite you. Don’t fall for her thinly veiled game.
Hear O Israel, The L-rd G-d is One!
This is the true feeling of TRUE Jews. The Shema is the lifeblood which runs through all religious Jews. Christianity falls apart when one concentrates on the Shema. All those false beliefs about the Virgin Birth, the Trinity, etc. They all fall to pieces.
There is no way in heaven or on earth that Xtians Jesus was the Jewish messiah. Don’t even try to argue that, you will certainly lose. Those Messianic Jews are very misguided and I can only pray that the day will come when they will wake from their spiritual death. It is so sad that the evil Xtians are actually actively trying to recruit Jews to Xtianity. They are surely evil, as the L-rd is my witness.
I live and work with many Xtians. My wife used to be Xtian before she converted. She now tells me quite often she now understands why Jesus was wrong about the nature of G-d. My synagogue has many converts and they are coming without anyone trying to convert them. We actually try to dissuade them from converting, but many have a strong desire for a relationship with Hashem. I am so proud of our Jewish community, we set a shining example to those around us.
Baruch Shemo
Michael
“At the core of Hach’nasat Orchim is humility. One which begets listening.”Brent
Brent, the core of hachnasat orchim is just that, taking in guests, it doesnt imply humility, or listening. actually there is no mitzva in taking in xtian missionaries and there is surely no mitzva in listening to them!
what a joke
assimilation, which can be viewed be some as the veiled infringing on another groups social position and status, breeds jealousy, competition, and sometimes elimination of the intruding factor.
Michael,
Im just curious where your community is.
My post was a joke. IT WAS A JOKE! It was a take on the Aristocrats joke.
All who took it as serious please remove your head from your ass. Or leave this site and go watch the 700 Club. (Maybe you’ll hit yourself over the head with one 700 club… doing us all a favor.
Michael: never heard such crazed reverie in my life. oh, wait i watched Billy Graham on TV. (I swear it was only once. once!). Anyway, you remind me of him. Only with a bit more zealotry. Stay off the drugs, okay?
AC: 1st paragraph shows you’re looking at Hachnasat Orachim from a very literal, face-value persepctive. Which is valid, of course, as it prescribes the action (Assiyah) in this mitzvah. However, like all mitzvot, Hachnasat Orachim has a deeper universal meaning beyond making sure you have enough leftovers for your guests.. This is where humility & generousity come in. Without’em, one CANNOT be a good host. Do you see what i’m getting at?
Now, would you say it’s plain to see that JEWschool is managed, owned and supported by Jews? If so, it is fair to assume that this forum is a public Jewish house. Strangers came a-knockin’ (read as: the Xtians) and what did you do? Did you treat them with respect, listen to their perspective and reply peacefully using the reason and wisdom of our people as your guide? Hmmm? I think we both know the answer to that one, kimusabe.
There’s no mitzvah to listen or entertain the opinions of Christians. But there is one against “bringing blood to a man’s face” i.e. belittling, embarrassing, attacking a person’s belief/personality in a public space.
(Wups..)
“assimilation, which can be viewed be some as the veiled infringing on another groups social position and status, breeds jealousy, competition, and sometimes elimination of the intruding factor.”
Shoooweee.. Okay, instead of just giving my opinion, i’d like to pose AC a question: a man cheats on his wife. was the marriage in trouble before the infidelity, after it or both? and why?
I know this seems unrelated, but just give me your honest opinion here.
Brent,
youre question actually has no relation to our topic like you said, so im going to skip answering it.
if you are implying our relationship with our H-shem was weak and that caused assimilation, this very well may be.
does that call for assimilation, or rectification?
anyhow,
in no way does the mitzva of hachnasat orchim include inviting xtians or any other religion into one’s home and listening to what they have to say. not every jew is at a level of perfection in that they can discern truth to a level that they can resist such tactics of the missionary types. It is in fact a sin to invite such a person into one’s home. Even if someone is at such a level that they can discern, who would want to bring such element into their home?
I personally like my relationship with H-shem and I’m not looking to bring other religions into my house to tell me what they believe in, I already know and i really don’t need to hear it from their mouth. The Torah commands us to keep from evil and base men, how do you question this and claim it a mitzva?
your misinterpretation of the Torah may bring you into trouble brent.
AC,
I live in the north SF bay area in a city named Vallejo. We have a synagogue called B’nai Israel and I also attend the orthodox minyan at Touro University {A Jewish medical school located near me}.
Check it out some time… We are very open to new people…
Michael
Brent,
You should be ashamed of yourself. Why are you so insulting? You must hate G-d, that is why you are attacking me. I have dealt with people like you. Eventually I just throw my hands up and say, so be it. Nothing can bring some souls around to loving G-d. These people, maybe Brent among them, live to see other people suffering.
I actively help people in my community. I have supported a non-Jew who lives in my house for almost a year. He has had difficulty keeping a job, so I help him. I give money at my synagogue to causes which help all people, not just Jews. As I said earlier, my synagogue is very open to new people, people interested in creating a GOOD relationship with G-d.
AC, when are you going to grow up? Only a person with a childs mentality would write what you wrote…
PS: You must be on drugs…
michael,
“AC, when are you going to grow up? Only a person with a childs mentality would write what you wrote…
PS: You must be on drugs…”
please explain.
relax AC, i’m sure he meant me..
Michael: or should i say Billy Graham, dude, ease up on the self-righteousness, k? i do this, and i do that.. humility and the laws of tzdaka ring a bell, Billy? nevermind being a God-fearin’ law-abidin’ Super-Jew, things like self-importance, self-righteousness and self-pity are the real obstacles you should be lookin at. Just a thought: use it, don’t use it..
AC: “It is in fact a sin to invite such a person into one’s home.”
your interpertation of the law of keep away from evil is tainted by your OWN belief that Xtians are evil. but see, i don’t think they’re evil and neither do many, many, many highly orthodox Jews. thus inviting them (those Xtians) into my home constitutes no sin what-so-ever..
🙂
Brent,
I dont mean that xtians are themselves as a generality evil, but i believe that the belief in jesus is a corruption of the Torah, which makes it evil and it makes it’s believers verge on, and delve in evil and defective theology.
There are dangerous ideas involved in xtianity, and unless someone knows how to discern between truth and falsehood, they are in grave spiritual danger when they get involved with and in religious discussion with a xtian. I call the missionaries directly evil, for even if they are misguided, they are promoting falsehood and putting another soul in direct danger.
Average jews are not expected to be on a level to be able to deal with missionaries, therefore they are sinning directly by inviting one into their home, their sanctuary. “watch very carefully after your soul” (this is a direct mitzva)
btw, I went to public school, had xtian friends, i work with xtians, i know they are not inherently evil ppl, as well i know that one’s immediate status of richeousness is not in relation to the danger they impose.
AC,
I was making a funny… Pointing out how absurd his “You must be on drugs” sounded when pointed back at the source…
This Brent character seems a bit confused. I don’t know why he brings up the issue of humility or tzadeka, do you? Anyone who knows me knows I am quite humble and I don’t need someone to make such derogatory comments about myself. If I defend myself, he will attack me again. There is no winning with people like Brent.
I agree with you AC, about how it is a sin to “Search after G-ds with you do not know”. G-d makes this quite clear, and repeats it. It is even in the Shema prayer…
If a missionary ever shows up at my house I point at my Mezzuzah and say that I already have a comfortable relationship with the L-rd. I don’t need them to tell me how to be one with Hashem. When they bring up Jebus, I tell them that he is a false messiah and I don’t have the time to try to explain it to them. If they persist, I start to show them how their interpretations of the prophets are completely wrong. There are many good websites which point out how misguided those missionaries are.
I am on a journey of self rectification. I am not perfect, never even implied that I was. I have certainly changed for the better, and I even learned alot through my teshuva last Yom Kippur. I pray that Brent does teshuva to resolve the myriad of problems he seems to have…
Thank you,
Michael
AC,
I apologize, my comment was about the drugs was meant to be addressed to Brent…
Shabbot Shalom,
Michael
hey, its ok michael, Shavua Tov!
More self-fellating rubbish from Michael.. “everyone that knows me knows i am quite humble”. Get off the white horse pal! You hold yourself in very high esteem which while being a good thing, can cross the line as you do, into self-importance.
Similarly to your “no winning with a person like Brent” i feel there is no reaching a person like you: holier than thou and neck-deep in his own BS. be careful that your focus is too much on Judaism and too little on God. And if you find that last sentence a bit mystifying, allow me to expand on it with an even more cryptic one:
Be mindful of not mistaking a finger that points to the moon for the moon itself. (Zen Koan)
Maybe one day you’ll wake up, my friend, and see that God is love and neither operates by judging and belittling others, no matter how different they are to you and your clan.
You think I judge you and that I have confusion in my heart, but i think you’re projecting your own doubts. Which is okay and i wish you well on resolving those.
AC: I’m glad you don’t view Xtians as inherently evil because that would fly in the face of all the prejudice we as a Jewish people have suffered. Has our own persucution not taught us tolerance of others?
I do watch over my Soul and keep it safe but i do not see inviting Xtian missionaries into my home as a threat. Nothing threatens my belief in God.
Surely, if God is everything, He is also the xtians? And if I can see Him in them, than surely i can see more of God in everything? These are not scholarly questions that need quoting from a Midrash or other texts in it ilk.
Speak from your heart. (You too Michael, if you can drop the act..)