How to win friends and influence people
Yediot Aharanot reports:
Yesha Rabbinical Council: During time of war, enemy has no innocents
The Yesha Rabbinical Council announced in response to an IDF attack in Kfar Qanna [you know, the one where 19 children died huddled in a bomb shelter] that “according to Jewish law, during a time of battle and war, there is no such term as ‘innocents’ of the enemy.”
All of the discussions on Christian morality are weakening the spirit of the army and the nation and are costing us in the blood of our soldiers and civilians,” the statement said.
*wince*
um, anyone know any different readings of Halacha?
And they say that Jews killed Christ LOL.
Wonder how they would react if it was Lebanese killing hundreds of Isreali children? Just wondering….
Wow, how “Old Testament’ of these war mongering servants of God.
Maybe if they march around Lebanon five times the country will just burst into flames. Just an ideal…
Ah, the Yesha Council, that delightful group of filthy old men who blow their noses into their beards, and join up with secular pork-eaters like Bibi, to incite the murder of a prime minister (see “Murder in the Name of God: The Plot to Kill Yitzhak Rabin,” by Israeli investigative journalists Michael Karpin and Ina Friedman).
I, a mere layperson, could teach Torah to these ‘religious’ fascists — as R. Hertzberg, z’l, referred to them — and, to Sydney C, as well. Among its 613 mitzvot are the top ten (including one about loving one’s neighbor as oneself), a pearl about ‘sanctuary,’ some great stuff on debt relief, having ‘one standard for stranger and citizen alike,’ helping your ENEMY lift up his ox, if it has fallen. But then, what should we expect from a history of the cosmos which is the only one to begin in harmony.
Well, I shall let my food digest, and then read how these fascists are polluting Mosaic law.
The settler rabbis and their fellow-travelers just make up Jewish law as they go along to fit their disgusting world view.
Among other heresies, they have turned “the Land” into their supreme idol, a case of avodah zorah (idol worship) if ever there was one. Their rulings and statements make it clear that to them it’s worth more than human life or anything else (they say NOTHING can EVER justify “giving up” parts of the Land of Israel, including saving lives, Jewish or otherwise).
As they see it, the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians becomes nothing more than a tribal conflict between “us” and “them.” There’s no morality implied beyond that, to these shameful and vile people. We should not, according to them, be above killing of children or anything else. We are no better or no worse than our enemies, we are just “us.” We don’t win by having right on our side or any sort of decency. We’re not fighting for any human value.
It’s a primeval and retrograde view, one that goes back to the days of living in caves before Matan Torah and morality. One from which decent Jews and decent humans have moved far.
Every Israeli soldier, including the Religious Zionists, knows that we win by believing in something better than our enemies, something decent. Not the foul mirror image of our nastiest enemies promoted by these evil ones who claim to represent Torah.
Wow, those “settler rabbis” are really dispicable- obviously far worse than any Muslims; you know of course that those “settler rabbis” go around commiting suicide bombings against babies and children; they smash their rifle into into the heads of little children; they send rockets against civilian sites. No penalty is too harsh for these “settler rabbis” – let’s cruch them into the ground, let’s spit on their garments, let’s show them that we modern Jews are far above them morally and in every other way, why they don’t deserve to live!!!!!!
Well dirrigible, apparently based on their comments the Yesha rabbis (yes, settler rabbis) wouldn’t be against Israeli soldiers doing most of the things you so sarcastically suggest, and, the thing that makes it so foul, without any remorse.
At least most Jews have some remorse for the killing of children and innocents in battle, even if we believe the battle is a necessary one. These vile individuals don’t even want that. What kind of Jew or human being believes this, let alone a rabbi?
As for their penalty, that’s reserved for the Olom Habo.
The whole thing was most likely staged. Here’s a good expose:
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/milking-it.html
Shame on the self-righteous guilt mongers.
If Israel does not do what these rabbi’s suggest somewhere down the line Israel will be forced to do much worse. Maybe even use nukes.
All the self-righteous individuals here believe they can afford a “clean” war because the Israeli army is the most powerful in the region. What if it wasn’t? Would we see the same concern for innocents as we do now?
The Mastermind – Subconsciously I knew I saw that picture one too many times.
david
blatheredwrote:apparently based on their comments the settler rabbis wouldn’t be against Israeli soldiers doing most of the things you so sarcastically suggest, and, the thing that makes it so foul, without any remorse.
– – – – – – – – – – – – –
The entire item is one short quote – relating directly to collateral loss of innocents. The Rabbi’s only point – an opinion held by most Israelis – is that the IDF need not tie its own hands to prevent such collateral damage, when terrorists deliberately hide among civilians.
Despite your own strong desire to paint these folks as rabid brutes (which deserves its own investigation) – there is no endorsement of deliberate targetting of civilians. Sorry.
In other words – these “bloodthirsty settler Rabbis” would never endorse Israel doing what Hezbollah is doing – deliberately shelling cities and targeting civilians.
Remember? It’s the Hezzies who’ve been purposely targeting women and children.
Can you get past your (self) hatred and partisanship to see and remember that?
What was this based on? How did the din go? “SHOW ME THE SEFER!!”
However, much kavod to talmidei chachamim and rebbeim &c, but honestly — how much authority does the Rabbinical Council of Yesh”a have, practically?
All sarcasm, humor, stupidity, obnoxiousness etc. aside – how do you deal with an enemy who fires rockets from densely populated residential neighborhoods, takes shelter in UN observation stations, and stores its weaponry in thousands of homes throughout the country along with their baby strollers and cribs?
a) Just leave them be and enjoy the Katyusha downpour.
b) Negotiate with an enemy whose only goal is your total destruction and annihilation?
c) Ask the UN (with their sterling reputation for solving crisis, both humanitarian and military, not to mention Saddam’s oil) to get the situation under control, and let them send peacekeepers to “monitor” the region.
d) Warn the population by telephone and air-dropped leafletts urging them to get the hell away from anybody associated with Hezbollah, and bunker-buster their asses.
e) e pluribus NUKE EM
f) Give the West Bank the Palestinian Nation (This one is Olmert’s!)
brigitte bardot weighs in:
”I insist, in my name and in the name of my foundation, and I beg of you to cease the attacks and the bombardments that injure and kill the Lebanese people immediately”, wrote Brigitte Bardot to Amir Peretz, Israeli Defense Minister, July 31st.
“Of course, your people have suffered, but does that give you the right to sow death haphazardly. When one has survived a genocide, can one take one’s turn acting the tyrant? I do not believe so, or else history has served no purpose, and the horror will never end. I place my hopes in you and address my prayers for the Lebanese victims.”
(Guysen.Isra?l.News) August 2, 2006
I’m finding this ruling pretty disturbing (granted I haven’t seen it inside), and I have my differences with much of religious zionism.
but David–cool it with the blanket statements. There are “settler rabbis” who would not agree with these views anymore than you do.
israel has killed many civilian arabs.
israel doesnt give a spit about arab lives.
infact israel wants to get rid of all arabs.
israel pushed it self between 22 arab countries.
israel will have to leave, and all of the arab israelis (i.e. yemeni jews, morrocan jews and iraqi jews etc..) which make up a big portion of israel’s population will pay for treason.
400 million arabs, 1200000000 muslims, we can walk over israel with retake it with sticks. the issue is not military power, the issue is that the arab and muslim leaders are puppets who follow what ever america wants them to do.
justice will prevail… one day
also: israel cant use nukes, because if it did, arabs are in close proximity + nukes mean no more wait. and this time it wont be egypt, syria lebanon and jordan only. it will be:
– saudi arabia
-iran
-syria
-jordan
-egypt
-lebanon
-oman
-united arab emarites
-qatar
-bahrain
-kuwait
-moretania
-morocco
-algeria
-sudan
-yemen
-tunisia
-somalia
-iraq
– PALESTINE
these are arab countries, not muslim countries (i.e. exclude pakistan who has nukes, and indonesia and malaysia etc.. who make up another 600,000,000 people)
want to start world war 3? BRING IT
Yeah,
I could see Oman getting into this….
OK, so here’s my response.
I never said there was another way. In fact, I support what Israel has done in going after the nutcases of Hezbollah. As many have stated, there’s a big difference between the Israeli army accidentally killing innocents when it’s targetting enemies who purposely hide among them, and a group that deliberately targets civilians at every opportunity (Hezbollah).
But to dismiss expressions of remorse over these civilian deaths as “tying the hands” of the Israeli army as someone here said or as “Christian morality,” and to state that there are “no innocents” is something completely different from supporting Israel in its efforts to destroy the threat Hezbollah poses.
So to those who here equate opposing the immorality of the Yesha Rabbinical Council (the “official” rabbinical body of the settlers and the foolish R’ Eliyahu (who recently ruled, if I remember correctly, that we shouldn’t fret over killing children) with opposing the war: You are just plain wrong.
It is perfectly possible to support the war, but also to show remorse over civilian deaths.
I repeat my opinions of these settler rabbis. They are a bunch of ignorant and dangerous extremists, who make up Torah as they go along, and who have warped and deliberately corrupted the entire body of halachic rulings since Day 1 on the sanctity of life, Jewish and otherwise, in order to justify their obscene messianic obsession with possession of every inch of the Land of Israel and their rabid right-wing politics. They need to stick to ruling that the Torah forbids hitchhiking with strangers, and the other issues to which their rabbinic status makes them more suited.
It is important to note that the numbers claimed by Hezbollah were halved by the hospital reports. Not to mention the building in Qana collapsing 8 hours after it was hit.
The point is that Hezbollah is manipulating these stories (possibly conjuring some of them from thin air) to sway world opinion and make the French spit up their blue cheese and brie.
I probably shouldn’t respond to the troll “muslim4LIFE,” but for someone who seems to be good at going to a globe and reading the names of countries, you really should group Iran and Somalia with Pakistan and Malaysia as non-Arab Muslim countries.
And by the way Brownie you posted a fantastic picture here.
This guy a “civilan rescue worker” paraded this poor kid’s body around for hours and displayed her to dozens of photographers hearded by Hezbollah media controlers.
See: http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/milking-it.html
Hey, formermuslim, some may consider you a troll, I consider you a voice of reason in a maelstrom of craziness