That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow
When strangers sojourn with you in your land, you shall do them no wrong, the strangers who sojourn with you shall be to you as natives among you, and you shall love them as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. –Leviticus 19:33-34
Today it was learned that Yuli Tamir will be ousted from her position as Minister of Education amidst outcry from the Right over a reference to the Naqba in a new textbook for Israeli Arab students.
Last week, an overwhelming majority of MKs voted in favor of legislation that would prohibit the sale or leasing of state-owned lands to non-Jews (ie. Arabs).
The week before that, Shimon Peres remarked upon the shared interest of both Israel’s Left and Right in maintaining a Jewish majority, an interest that Gideon Levy rightly notes “attests to the development in our society of very deep racist norms, cloaked in various ways, against the minority groups among us.”
While I agree that the concept of Zionism in-and-of-itself is not racist, how can you otherwise describe the practice of Zionism exemplified by the policies of the modern State of Israel?
And how does one justify what I’m sure will be the baseless hatred that will consume the comments on this post in the defense of such actions?
Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? –Isaiah 58:6
You will fast, and beat your chest. But what will you change? Where to from here?
See also: The Apostate: A Zionist politician loses faith in the future.
OK, Yuli is one of the most virulently anti-frum people IN Israeli government, IMO she should have been out long ago…
Moebius,
While you emphasize the non-sale of government lands to gentiles as an anti-Arab ploy, consider this:
The United States reserves the right to not sell government land to foreign entities, as well. Israel is a Jewish state, so following that conceit, this statement reads more to me as a non-sale clause of the same basis. It doesn’t mean private lands can’t exchange hands. It maintains that the government of a Jewish state will not sell to outsiders. While I’m sure bigotry factored into the law’s passage, I think the present conflict colors the end translation.
BTW: does anyone know what neighboring countries’ policy is regarding land sales of the same or similar nature?
1) we’re not talking about foreign nationals, we’re talking about non-jewish israelis. click the link marked “the practice of zionism.”
2) regarding your “BTW,” i would have expected more than “the arabs are racist so we can be too” from you.
Wasn’t Israel established in order to be a Jewish state? Why is it “racist” to wish to keep it that way?
1) Fine. Conceded.
2) I was curious, not comparing apples to oranges.
—
a) What do you propose to do differently.
b) What standard are you holding ‘racism’ to.
eh forget i said anything to begin with.
i forgot i wasn’t that welcome here to begin with.
my thesis is that every other nation, ethnicity, language group and religion has expressed a basic sense of nationalistic entitlement. so, what – it’s fair for everyone from Pakistan to Biafra to declare a right to at least one homogenous space to call refuge… but it’s somehow unreasonable for us to make that declaration? or, nu – we should just be nicer about it? because we live in such a reasonable world that if we’re just nicer, we’ll all get along? my basic approach is that everyone has a right to that kind of homogeneous space if they want it, and Israel and Palestine can/should/will exist contiguously with a continuous internal and external threat of extremists and intolerance. and look at me rambling because i haven’t slept in two days and forgot this is Jewschool, where the unspoken declaration is that since we can’t turn Israel into a utopia in 60 years we should close up shop, because every other nation-state on the planet has done such a bang-up f*cking job of maintaining sane, tolerant democratic values in their centuries’ building to the present world order.
feh.
>returns to lurking
Fricking A. Damm, is the global network going into melt-down or what? Right along religious/identity/nationalism/ethnic lines.
I’m doing research on a “cyberwar” attack between Jews and Islamists. I’m interested in any examples between Israeli/Jewish-American/Jewish diasporic hackers versus Islamists hackers. I know there have been examples of websites cyberattacks, but I’m curious about one on a big scale.
Please comment on my blog if you have examples. Thanks.infrasctructure after the Estonians and am looking for examples of “cyberattacks”
If 5 blue and 5 green people live on 10 plots of land and if the blue people are willing to sell to the green but the green, for their part, will not sell to the blue, what ultimately happens? While I admire your ‘take the high road’ approach to other peoples lives consider the difficulty of jews being able to buy land in almost any of the neighboring countries. Even where it is not prohibited the difficulty of being an overt jew in Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, etc. is well documented.
The simple fact is that (as has been stated) every nation has the right to develop policies to prevent the dissolution of its culture and character. I support the right of Islamic nations to remain Islamic and I support the right of the sole Jewish state to remain Jewish as well.
I love that quote from Isaiah! That line and the line from the Amidah: To those who curse me, let my soul be silent; and let my soul be like dust…are on the top of my head all day long.
But in fact, I love all of Isaiah…
-monk
I don’t think anyone on Jewschool wants to close up shop. But we do want to make better, and that means being critical of mistakes as they are made.
And, well, I appreciate your argument about a right “to one homogenous space.’ It is an interesting way to look at the world. Many have tried. The Spanish wanted a Christian homogenous space on their land, and well, we took offense to that. A fe other European nations a little while later expelled non-Christians, and we also didn’t like that. And hell, yeah, some Arab countries too, also fel tit was inappropriate to sell land ot non-Muslims, and well, I might be wrong, but I think we, as Jews, were hurt and objected to those policies as well. Also, I might recall quite recently, another central european state that tried to create a homoegeneous area, where its people could finally have some ‘living room.’ And, well, hmm. I thinkthat topic might still be up for debate, but most of us didn’t like how that turned out.
We founded the State of Israel to be safe haven for Jews, and to be a state of liberty, justice, and peace, in accordance with the vision of our prophets. We did not merely create a state to be like any other people, nor do we need to mimick everyone else’s mistakes
Wasn’t Israel established in order to be a Jewish state? Why is it “racist†to wish to keep it that way?
wasn’t germany established to be an aryan state? why is it racist to wish to keep it that way?
a) What do you propose to do differently.
start by recognizing that non-jewish citizens of israel are entitled to the same rights as jewish citizens of israel, a right stipulated in israel’s declaration of independence.
b) What standard are you holding ‘racism’ to.
if you can’t buy a piece of property or rent a house in a neighborhood because of your race/ethnicity/religion/gender/sexual orientation, i think that constitutes an experience of discrimination, which, without getting too semantic, is more or less racism…
eh forget i said anything to begin with. i forgot i wasn’t that welcome here to begin with.
do you really want to drag this out in public?
my thesis is […] the present world order.
so let me get this straight — not only should “the light unto the nations” not hold itself to higher standards, it shouldn’t even hold itself to its own standards:
right, right, like the constitution, israel’s declaration of independence, to quote g.w. bush, “is just a goddamned sheet of paper.”
so the world is going to shit, and we jews should what? lead the way down the toilet?
go read sefer shmuel — when the jewish people desire to be like every other nation, g-d proclaims that the jewish people have turned their back on him.
While I admire your ‘take the high road’ approach to other peoples lives consider the difficulty of jews being able to buy land in almost any of the neighboring countries.
welcome to modern day judaism, aka zionist judaism, where two wrongs make a right. the simple fact is that one person’s injustice against you doesn’t entitle you to commit the same injustice against them.
The simple fact is that (as has been stated) every nation has the right to develop policies to prevent the dissolution of its culture and character. I support the right of Islamic nations to remain Islamic and I support the right of the sole Jewish state to remain Jewish as well.
so you support, say, the right of white americans to prevent the dissolution of america’s culture and character by maintaining segregated restrooms, drinking fountains, restaurants, public schools, etc.? you support the crazy fuckers down at the mexican border who are enforcing their own immigration policy? you support the folks who tied matthew shepard to a fence?
because, you know what — i don’t support the right of any nation to maintain a character that excludes any human being from full civic participation on conditions of race, ethnicity, religion, gender, or sexual orientation.
but seeing how you do, i guess we’ll just wheel those 10 commandments into the courthouse and mandate prayer in public school. oh, and let’s throw the negroes and the mexicans out while we’re at it.
holy shit! i mean, are we really moving backwards in time?
Why did you specify that the outcry to oust Tamir came from the ‘right’? The outcry is from every nationalist Israeli who sees this suicidal self-hating Tamir condoning the Nakba on Yom Haatzmaut as someone bordering on traitorous?
Mobius, I agree with you that Shimon Peres and his other leftist budies trying to maintain a ‘Jewish majority’ while at the same time struggling to dilute the Judaism by promoting a dejudified Jew is absurd.
Yup, promoting the Jewish ownership in the Land of Israel is ‘affirmative action’ another politically correct way of disguising discrimination through discrimination.
You’ve taken the ‘law preventing non-Jewish ownership’ out of context. The JNF was formed by Jews, to provide affirmative action by buying land for Jews. Now, because we are supposed to be enlightened humans, we have to change that policy and destroy the JNF?
Mob, aren’t you usually accusing everyone else of Godwin’s Law?
let me pour lemon juice on my papercut and respond, now that i’ve actually slept and am slightly coherent.
America is not Saddlebrook, New Jersey. It is not an America in the Middle East. It is not a nation with an ‘American Melting Pot’ at its thematic heart. Diversity is not a core value that was built into it, and frankly, isn’t a value that most of the world shares. It’s not fair or even sane to judge it strictly by those standards. Whether it likes it or not, is not a ‘truly Western’ country anymore than Turkey is. It’s a Jewish Middle Eastern state with its own peculiarities, and yes, some of them are pretty odious from a northeastern liberal American perspective. Or even by a generally secular humanistic perspective. I think Israel can do better. I think most countries can do better. I also think that Israel is only as racist as its neighbors, and think it’s funny when people say, “Well Israel should be better than that” because better than what? Better than who? The savages next door? That’s not racist?
“And how does one justify what I’m sure will be the baseless hatred that will consume the comments on this post in the defense of such actions?”
Sweetie pie, anyone who disagrees with your ideas is not *necessarily* expressing baseless hatred.
Wahhh!
“Diversity is not a core value that was built into it,”
Agreed. Israel need not take any effort to encourage diversity. It does not need affirmative action admissions policies, nor does it need quota systems. However, a core value, bulit into it, was equal rights. Were the principles of “liberty, justice and peace” which Mob and I have both quoted from the declaration of independence. Nobody is calling for making Israel the homeland for all, but we are demanding that Israel stop discriminating against those that are already its citizens.
josh: assigning the term “self-hatred” to anyone whose ideas are more complex than the black and white/”with us or against us” paradigm in which you live is a cop out. your religious settler rhetoric and anti-secular slanders are stale and purposeless in civil conversation.
as per the jnf — the supreme court of the state of israel has ruled on the subject, seconded by the attorney general. whereas those lands are now state lands, the jnf cannot discriminate.
frankly, the state should be raising all the money it can and, as promised, returning it to those whom it borrowed it from in the first place: holocaust survivors/victims and their living descendants. rather, these people have been forced into the position of taking the state to court to get their money back, despite the jnf’s guarantees of return pay w/ interest.
as per godwin’s law — the “law” applies to situations in which you cannot draw a just comparison to the holocaust. so for example, grover norquist saying the estate tax is like the holocaust is out of line. however, drawing comparisons between actually similar policies — particularly when discussing a state that draws its justification for being from the experience of the holocaust — i think is totally legitimate and within reason. for example: saying that george bush is hitler, stam, is just stupid. however, saying that george bush just signed an executive order that enables him to concentrate power around himself much in the way that hitler did is not stupid — it’s accurate, telling, and terrifying.
~~~
monk: you’re right–israel’s not a melting pot. it’s a racist country, filled with racist people. and from my north eastern liberal american perspective, it’s pretty damned odious. but i’m at least grateful for the fact that you’re not rubbing the lie of israel not being racist in my face and upholding it as evidence of why israel is a beacon of moral hope and democracy in the middle east. at least you’re honest about the fact that israel is consumed by ethnic and racial hatred. now if i can get you to not tolerate it, nor to find it acceptable, we’ll be all that much closer to geulah.
jay: i wasn’t talking about people who disagree with me. i was talking about people who, rather than debate the merits of my argument, will instead resort to political epithets like “self-hating jew.” i don’t know how often you read the comments on jewschool, but after five years, i can assure you that baseless hatred is a way of life for some of israel’s most staunch defenders.
Moebius.
No problem.
I’m glad to help.
In the future, I’ll do my best to apply my paternalistic American standards on every country I come across, and then work really hard to be indignant about everyone who disagrees with me.
On a less caustic note, I would never hold any nation-state up as a ‘moral beacon’ because it does a gross injustice to just about everyone. Israel’s another country, Jews are another people, and all the flaws inherent to that format are just as present as in anyone else. In fact, while it certainly acknowledges we should aspire to greater standards, I’m reasonably certain Torah acknowledges these pitfalls.
yeah, see, this has less to do with being a paternalistic american and more to do with being a jew committed to judaism’s highest principles.
for me, eretz yisrael is the altar of the earth — a sanctified space that is to be approached with a purified consciousness. it is not just another patch of dirt in which we can make a nation for ourselves like any other. to approach israel in such a way invalidates the very contract under which the land was granted to us.
to that effect, torah makes clear how one should regard the non-jewish citizens of israel. and it furthermore makes clear its stance against discrimination.
ben gurion held up a tanakh at the UN and said it was our deed to the land.
our deed, however, is a conditional contract, and we’re breaking it.
“monk: you’re right–israel’s not a melting pot. it’s a racist country, filled with racist people. and from my north eastern liberal american perspective, it’s pretty damned odious.” Wow!
Monk,
Your analysis of the Middle East completely ignores the historical fact that – RIGHT NOW – THERE IS A BATTLE WITHIN ISLAM – between those who want their positive reformation, that is, an islam compatible with Modernity, difference, and pluralism and opposite them, radical Islamists, like the Inquisitors, like Dubya today, see themselves on a holy mission to deny the other basic human rights (yes, torture is still bad).
While I don’t know your writing or work well enough to say if your reactive politics hide the same idealogical force and committment to erasing difference and not accepting pluralism within Middle Eastern Islamic countries, that’s for you to say.
But needless to say, I’m active with Muslim who are proud of their Islam, as I am proud of my friendship with them, and they need support. Ironically, there’s a massive reformist blogasphere in Iran, but then that might not find in with your myopic worldview and identity.
On my link, I strongly suggest you read Reza Aslan NO GOD BUT GOOD and Manuel Castells POWER OF IDENTITY and his chapters on AQD, which demonstrates how foolish ideas likes your strengthen Al Queda by creating support for Dubya’s self-destructive plan, which inflames and increases the Islamic recruiting for terrorists.
Lewis.
My analysis of the Middle East is that it didn’t start in 1947.
Moebius is absolutely right that Israel was founded with high falootin’ principles. So was American, Pakistan, post-Revolutionary Iran, Russia, China, Vietnam, and a whole HOST of other countries built on specific ideologies. But those ideologies must ultimately grapple with certain unfortunate realities. Diversity and bigotry exist side by side. The second someone recognizes ‘difference’ or ‘other’, there can be a nod and smile, but there can also be gritted teeth and clenched jaws. It’s not some kind of cynical self-hating analysis to say that people have bias, people have prejudices, and conflicts will arise, even in the most tolerant atmospheres. As extension of that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that while we all come out to play, work, rub elbows in cosmopolitan environments, we also have our own homes to come back to. Because the alternative hasn’t proven to work very well, no matter how hard we try.
That’s not atavistic.
That’s acknowledging that there’s a shrinking amount of real estate, it’s getting awfully crowded, and there are going to be more armed conflicts as time goes on. I don’t think Moebius is incorrect to want to improve Eretz Yisrael and adhere to the higher values Judaism espouses. I am active in my own religious community, and often site the beauty of Judaism is that it functions within a living continuum: everything is done for a better world after us. But I also measure that against the world we live in, and that others don’t have the same values I do. So I may be attacked at some point for being a Jew, as I have in the past, and I may have to defend myself. My take on Zionism is an extension of that.
I’d like to point out that the article you first pointed to, Mobius, on the proposal to move Tamir from the Education Ministry is from June 25, not from July 24. From what I can see here myself in Israel, people on the right wing are angry at Tamir for approving the textbook for 3rd graders in Arab schools, but she’s certainly not being kicked out of the job at this point. Ayalon was not moved into the Education ministry earlier this summer. I agree with you that there are certainly racist tendencies in Israel, but there are also people, like Tamir, who are trying to make a more open space for Israeli Arabs.
We are obviously have this conversation due to disruptive advances in Information Communication Technologies (ICTs). That’s the pre-req. for these experiences in every sense of the world.
So you need to educate yourself on how technology and identity intersects in dangerous ways in a post-industrial world where images and terrorist knowledge also flow through these same networks.
AQD was to encourage the far right; they want Republicans in office and you’re helping them. Thanks. Read the books.
rebecca–that’s very weird, cuz it came up in my google news alerts only yesterday…
Amnon Rubinstein has a sensible proposal to deal with this problem, which is for all land that was transferred from state control to the JNF in the 1950s to revert to state land.
Whether that can avoid a constitutional crisis (as it appears likely that the Israeli Supreme Court would strike down this law as inconsistent with the Basic Laws) remains to be seen.
Josh Frankel,
I think that more people would support full equality when the Arab citizens of Israel start trying themselves to integrate themselves into Israeli society. Please let me know when they start paying taxes like Jews, start sending their youth to either the army or a national service, stop commemorating Yom Haatzmaut as destruction day, etc…
Ok, I’ll give you a break. Please let me know when they even attempt to discuss ideas of integration.
Not that I am a historian, but if I recall some US history, the discriminated black population of the US in the mid to late 20th century still identified with the country they lived in. I believe that that integration made it so much easier for the rest of America (i.e. white people) to understand the idiocy of that discrimination.
On the other hand, Arabs in Israel have very little public relations that try and convince regular Israelis about their wishes to be equal and too many examples of how they themselves wish to remain a segregated society that identifies with enemies of Israel (who frankly have already shown to not discriminate when attacking Israel).
Ladies and Gentlemen,
It seems clear to me, that the point was long lost in this train of comments. The point that Mobuis was aiming for was that, as a supporter of Israel –no matter how liberal/lefty/progressive/etc– these kinds of laws and regulations make it increasingly difficult to both actually support the state and defend it to its critics abroad. If any of you can stand up and say you are proud of the actions of the Knesset regarding the JNF Law or any of the other issues presented here, then what are you basing you pride upon? I know for sure it isn’t Judaism, for it is taught that you shall welcome the stranger in your community and treat him and her fairly. It isn’t a Jewish understanding that I was taught that tells me the Jews are worthy of better treatment because of blood lines or ethnic understanding, for it is taught that we all came from the same family. Come on people, get out of the semantics and get into the real argument.
Can you be proud to support such actions? That is the core question here…
POLJ’s reasoning is off. He writes, “I know for sure it isn’t Judaism, for it is taught that you shall welcome the stranger in your community and treat him and her fairly.”
This is your interpretation of Judaism. As you know, the Torah can be taught in many ways, and the seven nations of Canaan was not exactly embraced or welcomed.
To use a liberal and Reform interpretation of Judaism as “proof” of a liberal and Reform understanding of Judaism is circular reasoning. It may be useful internally, but less so in direct debate.
POLJ,
THE Knesset’s reaction reflect a fundamental failure to face the future and understand how Islam and Judaism can exist in a post-industrial world dominated by powerful, new networks that have to be addressed.
So you truncate the issue and we can’t think so myopically. We’re out of the industrial, Max Weber, let’s be rational with “circular reasoning” world. Obviously, the K’s action is “irrational” but such actions are becoming more prevalent world-wide.
It’s sociology 101, as the world becomes more complex, our tools to understand it must evolve.
Josh
“I think that more people would support full equality when the Arab citizens of Israel start trying themselves to integrate themselves into Israeli society. Please let me know when they start paying taxes like Jews, start sending their youth to either the army or a national service, stop commemorating Yom Haatzmaut as destruction day, etc.”
Fact check here. 1 – Arabs pay taxes exactly like Jews do. 2 – We chose not to draft Arabs, but Arabs can and do volunteer for service. In addition, Druze men are drafted, and many many bedouin men volunteer. 3 – Commemorations of al Naqba by Israeli Arabs is a new phenomenon and that brings us to the most important thing here. Let us look at the history. Those Arabs who are today Israeli citizens became that way, because their grandparents, took a huge risk. They stood up to Jordanian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi and internal Palestinian pressure, and chose not to fight and not to run away. (granted many of the refugees might also ahve chosen not to fight, but that is a different story) They chose to embrace the Jewish state. From the first day of the State the Arabs made known their allegience, and we made them a promise. We failed on that promise. And well surprise, surprise, as we ahve failed to deliver on our promise, many of them have become disillusioned with the State of Israel, and many of them lhave come to see the events of 47-48 as tragedy rather than celebration. It is tough to blame them.
The key thing to look at is the trend. At one point about 60 years ago, they wanted very much to be part of Israel, and as time has gone on, they have grown less and less interested. Fascinating that at the same time, the interest of Jews of expatriating Arabs has grown.
You talk of the civil rights movement, and the identity of black with America. Well, to be quite honest that is a miracle. That a people should be so thoroughly abused for so long, only to want to join the abusers on equal turf. It’s an odd and unique occurrence. Or you know what, I can give you a real good way for explaining that, and well, it’s kinda shitty. The white folk in America did such a good job with their oppression of the Africans they brought over, that those Africans lost everything they had They lost their culture, their language, their names, their families, absolutely everything. And in the face of that absolute loss, their only option, or so it would have appeared was adopting American culture. Perhaps we should be thankful that our oppression has not gone so far that the Arabs are all begging to be Jewish.
Or, you know what, let me tell a nicer story. Even if blacks were oppressed by the average American, still Americans spoke of a greater dream, and seemed destined to fulfill it. And well, even the oppressed could identify with that dream , that vision, and they were therefore willing to join their erstwhile oppressors. Halevai, we should be able to articulate such a dream and such a vision that will allow all people to want to join us on that project
it is incredible that 60 years after ethnic cleansing in palestine began in earnest, “progressive” jews still argue that the natives are not living up to our expectations. they are “not willing” to integrate — excuse me, what about Ka’adan, who for a decade has been trying to move into a Jewish community, under court order? could it be the Jewish communities that refuse to be integrated?
someone praised rubenstein’s idea to give JNF lands back to the state. How about actually returning the land to its owners, many of whom are actually Israeli citizens. You remember Abbas Suan, the Arab football player liberals love to use an example of what an integrated society Israel is? his family is not allowed to go back to its ancestral lands, just a few km from Sakhnin, stolen from the Suans because they were a few miles from their village when the Naqba ended.
josh (not josh frankel) isn’t a progressive. he’s a religious settler.
Mobius, if you go back to the original Haaretz article, you’ll see that it’s dated June 25. Maybe it’s just something strange with the
Google alerts? In any case, any news about Tamir has been swallowed up in the current Histadrut general strike, which started this morning.
In any case, I generally agree with you here – I do not want Zionism to be racist, I want Zionists to recognize that there is another people here who have an equally valid claim to this land, whose nationalism is equally valid. Having just read Tom Segev’s book, “One Palestine, Complete,” it is plain to see, however, that there has always been a racist strain in Zionist ideology and practice. And before everyone descends on me also, I believe that Israel should continue to exist, despite all its flaws – but it should be a state that truly grants equal rights to all its citizens (by the way, I would say exactly the same thing about the United States), and it should be a state that finds a way to make peace with the Palestinians.
DK Fair point but the entire thing here is asking us to look at these issues and say can we support such craziness as individuals, as a community and as Jews.
I say no. Perhaps that is just me.
“Halevai, we should be able to articulate such a dream and such a vision that will allow all people to want to join us on that project.”
Thanks Josh Frankel. You know, Yeshayah described it first? Now we just gotta get people to do it.
Not sure I phrased that right.
The point is, the results of the vision JF described have been portrayed by Yeshayah the prophet.
The problem is actually getting there. Keep at it, I say. Tsiyon bemishpat tipadeh.