An interesting letter
Dr. David Berger, recently appointed director of YU’s Yeshiva College’s Jewish Studies Department, writes a response to the accusation that he excludes a major Jewish group from Orthodoxy (the Lubavitchers) and requires members of the Chabad-Lubavitch communityat YU to “take some sort of oath declaring they do not believe the Rebbe is the Messiah to be considered accepted within Orthodoxy.” This accusation, appearing in the Commentator
challenges Berger to be more open-minded – I suppose about whether or not it’s okay to believe that the Lubavitch rebbe is either the messiah or divine.
The gist of his response is that “a large majority of Lubavitch hasidim believe that the Rebbe is the Messiah while a very substantial number believe that he is pure divinity. (For a succinct presentation of the evidence, see http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/archives5766/pinchos/olubavtchpnc66.htm),” suggests that parties interested in the matter read his book, The Rebbe, the Messiah, and the Scandal of Orthodox Indifference, states that he is not calling for excommunication – comparing his call to be similar to that of moderate Orthodox to Conservative and Reform Jews, which tickles me in oh, so many ways.
He concludes, more or less,
We live in an olam hafukh, an upside-down world, where spokespersons for a movement permeated by Christian-style posthumous false messianism and even avodah zarah can accuse Jews who deny them automatic Orthodox legitimacy of violating Jewish values. This is how I formulated the point in the Hebrew book: “Chabad hasidim have largely succeeded in silencing their critics with the accusation that those critics are fomenters of strife who undermine Jewish unity and disdain the supreme value of ahavat Yisrael. Permission is thus granted to the destroyer (nittenah reshut la-mashchit) to hijack your religion as you watch, while you remain helpless-because you are a decent person who loves the Jewish people and shuns divisiveness.”
Students in my Bernard Revel Graduate School course on messianism will testify that although I assigned some of my writings on Chabad-along with the works of Lubavitch hasidim-I kept classroom discussion as analytical and non-polemical as possible. As to Yeshiva College, it no doubt contains students who are not fully committed to Orthodox Judaism, and I do not see the need to ask questions of Lubavitch applicants that are not asked of others. But attending Yeshiva College is not the same as serving as a rabbi, a dayyan, a Jewish Studies principal, and, in the context of avodah zarah, a shochet, a sofer, and a wine producer.
Wow, and they say I’m blunt.
xp Kol Ra’ash Gadol
What a putz. (him. not you.)
Kol, thanks for posting that dribble.
Sunshine is a great sanitizer.
I’d like to see how many YU graduated Rabbis pasken that OU, Chof K,cRC Chicago and OK cannot be relied upon for Meat or Wine kashrut.
(For those who don’t know they all rely on Lubavitcher Mashgichim and Shochtim world over – with know “pledge test”)
That will be a good litmus test of Rabbi Dr. Berger’s acceptance in Klal Yisroel.
The comments on that response are quite fascinating.
Reb,
I think you make a great point. Chabad presents a truly difficult case to deal with. I mean, the vast majority of messianic jews aren’t observant, so for any J for J people, we can usually write them off because they look nothing like jews.
But chabadniks are a different breed of messianic jew: they believe a dead guy is mashiach while sacrificing none of the observance. it’s a big issue. clearly they bring a lot to the table when it comes to kiruv and making kosher thins and jewish life available at places where it otherwise wouldn’t be.
But let’s not kid ourselves, they’re breaking a fundamental law that many of us hold dear by making the rebbe into mashiach (and let’s not even get into the christian messiah-as-savior thing that chabad is riffing off of). So, i guess we let them around because frankly they are synonymous with judaism in many small places, we rely on them too much because really, we have to. but i don’t think a professor at a large orthodox institution is out of line at all for making students feel bad about believing things that the majority of orthodox jews is not only not jewish but antithetical to judaism.
*not out of line at all.
oops
Damn right AWESOME
Sanctimonious triumphalism is very off putting regardless of who professes it. Berger is unrepentent. His grasp of reality is not very nuanced. Chabad on the other hand is very nuanced. Reality is very nuanced. There are Reform members who keep kosher, there are conservative members who use the mikveh. There are Orthodox followers that are not careful in all areas of observance. It drives me crazy people that run around pointing fingers saying that is not how to live. Live properly and people will follow you.
There is a vast majority of Chabad Rabbis and laypeople who do not believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach in the simple naive sense of the word. The soul of Moshiach is the same regardless of the body that it comes out of. The hardcore Meshichists are a small group and getting smaller. Attacking them though is not the way to change beliefs.
And lets not forget the collateral damage they inflict on indigenous Jewish communities by ruining local variants of Judaism by their overrunning brand of whatever it is they practice. Kosher wine or not, I don’t trust these people.
the collateral damage they inflict on indigenous Jewish communities by ruining local variants of Judaism by their overrunning brand of whatever it is they practice
I wouldn’t say it’s collateral damage at all.
As Steg summed up once at http://boroparkpyro.blogspot.com/2005/08/my-non-chassidishe-shechita-beef-with.html, after telling a few unfortunate anecdotes:
I’ve encountered this attitude from Chabad books and people many times — the rejection of “Traditional Judaism” as unfulfilling, and the need to replace it with something new and improved: Chabad Chasidism.
Where does this attitude come from?
Maybe from here:
It’s part of a letter supposedly written by the Ba‘al Shem Tov, where he says:
I asked Moshiach, “When will you come, master?” And he replied, “By this you shall know: it will be a time when your teachings become publicized and revealed to the world, and your well-springs have overflowed to the outside. [It will be when] that which I have taught you — and that which you have perceived of your own efforts — become known, so that others, too, will be able to perform mystical unifications and ascents of the soul like you. Then all the evil klippos will be destroyed, and it will be a time of grace and salvation.”
In other words, the messiah will only come when the Ba‘al Shem Tov’s teachings are embraced by the world. The Torah wasn’t enough. Sinai wasn’t enough. We’ve all just been going through the motions, wasting our time and not getting anywhere because the ultimate Goal — mashiahh, tiqun ‘olam, the fulfillment of all our prophecies — has been impossible to reach without this New Revelation of Hhasidism and (especially!) Chabadism.
Which I guess explains why most of the Lubavitchers I’ve met have barely any knowledge at all outside of their own movement. It makes sense that they’re unfamiliar with R’ Soloveitchik and R’ Shimshon [ben] Refa’eil Hirš, as the leaders of a competing conception of contemporary Judaism (a.k.a. Modern Orthodoxy). But R’ Yoseif Karo? The RM”A? Maimonides? It also explains why R’ Shneur Zalman of Liadi called his halakhic work “Shulhhan ‘Arukh”, appropriating the name of a previous generation’s halakhic code. This is what happens when you believe that your own movement — your immediate 4 amot — is the be-all and end-all of Judaism. It’s all very logical — if all of history depends on you spreading the Good News, you’re going to spend your time learning the “prophetic” essays of your semi-divine Rebbe, and not worry so much about all the outdated and useless halakhic and philosophical opinions of a bunch of rabbis who don’t really matter anyway, in the grand scheme of things.
This is my beef with Chabad, the negative impression I’ve gotten of their movement and their ideology. I know that there are good Lubavitchers out there, such as one Chabad House rabbi my brother knows who “never implies that other people’s Halakhic Judaisms aren’t good enough” and “also gets along respectfully and jokes around with the [Conservatives] and the [Reforms]; he never implies they’re bad.” But I missed meeting him the last time I was in his area. So I’m stuck with the ones I know, who, for instance, were horrified that anyone would want to arrange a mínyan where they can daven their own ancestral nusahh, and didn’t see the light and benefit of becoming one with the New World Order.
letter supposedly written by the Ba‘al Shem Tov
I doubt.
Nevertheless, even so, lots of other Chasidic groups don’t do this; in fact, the whole family of dynmasties of Pschischa (i.e. Rabbi Reb Simcha Bunim, and all his descendant dynasties such as Kotsk) would have been horrified by such a thing.
And furthermore, IMO Dr. Berger may be a little blunter than one might hope for, but *if* it is true that a significant number of Lubavitchers believe that their deceased rebbe is divine, then that does make them kofrim, and in fact, means that their hegemony over the shchita industry in this country is hugely problematic, since it would render the food treif, which is, I suspect, the real reason that no one is being quick to try to boot them out (I think Berger may have pointed this out somewhere in his book).
But let us say that it is only that the majority thinks the rebbe will be resurrected as a non-divine messiah, which is crazy, but not quite heresy. Or is it? How close to the line does that make them? At what point is the line actually crossed?
I don’t actually know the answer to this question, but I find it interesting that while many Orthodox are fine with writing off the entire COnservative movement as heretics, they are not willing to do so for Lubavitch, despite evidence that quite possibly as great a percentage are… this at the very least underscores that the charge of heresy is more related to social norms (role of women, for example) or “how things look” than halachic ones.
I also wonder rather strongly, why those Lubavitch who are not believers in the divine rebbe or even the about to be resurrected rebbe, are not doing more about this? I know that they exist and form at least a sizable minority. An older friend of mine who grew up Lubavitch thinks that the whole movement is compromised, but surely those who remain committed, but not to the divinity of the rebbe, must be wondering what the heck is going on?
OK, flame away.
that does make them kofrim, and in fact, means that their hegemony over the shchita industry in this country is hugely problematic, since it would render the food treif, which is, I suspect, the real reason that no one is being quick to try to boot them out
Rubashkin & Agriprocessers have American Jewry by the balls. So far, to feed our addiction for cheap fleish, we’ve abandoned the halachot of tsa’ar ba’alei chayim, the halachot of treatment of workers, the halachot of ethical business practices, the halachot of dina demalchuta, and finally the halachot of kefira & who is a kosher shochet.
this at the very least underscores that the charge of heresy is more related to social norms (role of women, for example) or “how things look†than halachic ones
Amein, my brother/sister. Sad but true.
OK, flame away.
What is that, a gay joke? 😉
Withlove, when you say “Live properly and people will follow you.”, i see that as EXACTLY the problem we have in dealing with chabad, because the living we neccesarily take issue with, it’s the beliefs that they have. judaism is based on certain core beliefs, and believing in a dead messiah is a hard pill to swallow.
and saying meshichists are a small group? where do you live? i live in pico-robertson in L.A., and it’s a constant thing.
As someone who attend Lubavatcher services, torah study classes and the like, I agree with virtually every one of the posters above. There is a disturbing aspect to the position some (who knows what %?) Lubatvathcers take on the messiahood of the Rebbee. On the other hand, wont’t the problem go away with time – when the Rebbee doesn’t reappear here on earth within the next several years, the believers in his messiahship will fade away and become a historical memory, but Lubavither’s good works will continue.
when the Rebbee doesn’t reappear here on earth within the next several years, the believers in his messiahship will fade away and become a historical memory
Don’t we already have one historical counterexample to that prediction?
As for the inaction/silence of non-meshichist Lubavitchers, well, quite frankly in talking with them, they don’t feel the need to defend their position or make massive edicts which will make little difference. All that would do probably is just make a bunch of crypto-meshichist lubavitchers, and that would complicate things within the chabad community, now wouldn’t it?
Furthermore, when you consider the position that a Moshiach candidate is born in every generation, than the position of some people who say the Lubavitcher Rebbe Z”TL was Moshiach isn’t as problematic as it might seem. Now, those who regard the Rebbe as chas v’shalom, divine, well that’s definately a huge problem. For obvious reasons. But I have reason to believe that those who believe that are a small group.
Lubavitcher outreach efforts have made Judaism more accessible to a lot of people. You might have theological differences with their particular chassidus or chassidus in general, but you can’t deny the reality that they are aiding Jews in doing mitzvos. Not that other groups arent doing outreach, but they aren’t doing it on the same scale.
To make blanket statements about the beliefs of Lubavitchers is just as insane as it is to make blanket statements about the beliefs of Reform Jews.
Remember, there are requirements for accusing someone of avodah zarah. Otherwise, its just lashon hara.
“The Messianic Doctrine of the Lubavitcher Rebbe (e-book)”
http://www.lulu.com/content/943186
You’ve got to read this – if you’re gonna make any real sense of the whole Moshiach thing!
Berger is a lovely guy – but really don’t have a clue!
according to strict halacha it is possible for the Rebbe to be moshiach even though he passed away. how so?
i’m glad you ask. it is because according to several opinions there will be a revival of the tzaddikim (rightous) before the coming of moshiach and the general revival of the dead. this makes it possible for somebody who has passed on to be revived and then to lead the jews out of exile. make sence?
so, bears for israel, when saying that they break a fundamental law many (indeed? many?) of us hold so dearly, please explain yourself. please quote halachic opinions too.
chillul who:
you quote this steg. he says that lubavitchers think that their way is the only way. these are the just the he’s met.
in fact though, most lubavitchers dont have this additude. “these (opinions) and these (opinions) are the words of the living almighty”. this is yidden. many diverse opinions, and they’re all correct.
the HUGE success of chabad on the larger scale is due largely to this aditude of srict adherence to the halacha but flexibility for those who don’t keep.
and of course chabad, just like any form of yiddishkeit has something to add that was previously lacking.
and so, when steg writes: “In other words, the messiah will only come when the Ba‘al Shem Tov’s teachings are embraced by the world. The Torah wasn’t enough. Sinai wasn’t enough. We’ve all just been going through the motions, wasting our time and not getting anywhere because the ultimate Goal — mashiahh, tiqun ‘olam, the fulfillment of all our prophecies — has been impossible to reach without this New Revelation of Hhasidism and (especially!) Chabadism” indeed he is correct.
the world did fine with all it had only UNTIL a certain period when world jewry was in the tubes ( after shabbetai zvi, pogroms of the years ta”ch and t”t, class differences amongst jews etc.) and there arose a need for a more accessible yet intence form of yiddishkeit.
here come chasidis.
did it help? i think so. a jew can tavel where ever he wants on this earth and have a place to pray and a home? this is a help.
and so many formerly unaffiliated jews getting involved in yiddishkeit in ever growing numbers? more yeshivas now than in all of our history? i could go on and on.
of course this isnt the doing solely of chabad, but we all know (although some hate to admit it) that their role is essential.
this is real and true yiddishkeit; it continuously evolves and expands to cater to the condition of an ever changing human society.
one more thing. the code of law written by the Alter Rebbe know as the shulchan aruch ha’Rav is not only accepted but studied by all forms of orthodox judaism and is used as a primary source of learning for many parts of halacha.