Culture, Identity, Israel, Justice

Israel is like Baklava

Listen to Avraham Burg talk about how Israel is like baklava.
More specifically, he explains how the notion that Israel is a Jewish democratic state is like baklava. When you first taste it, its feels sweet, but after a few minutes, things get sticky, and you are left with a lump in your stomach.
Burg says a lot more than that. The interview is 90 mins long. He talks about love conquering hate, the place of the holocaust in the Israeli psyche, the place of minorities in Israel, and the end of the zionist myth.
Its well worth a listen.
(link courtesy of JTA)

15 thoughts on “Israel is like Baklava

  1. I’m gonna take a wild stab and say that Jason DIDN’T listen to the interview.
    This guy has a LOT to say, even if you don’t agree with some of his views. Particularly of interest is his take on the diaspora/Israel dichotomy.

  2. Does he talk about this: Ha’aretz’s Ari Shavit writes:
    In an interview in Haaretz Weekend Magazine, [Burg] said that he is in favor of abrogating the Law of Return and calls on everyone who can to obtain a foreign passport.

  3. He doesnt mention that specifically, but he does talk about the end of aliya in both demographic and moral terms. Its worth a listen.

  4. Actually, thanks. I DID listen to the interview. I just respect very little someone who now admits to not being a Zionist, yet chose to lead the Jewish Agency and be the Speaker of the Knesset of the State of Israel, a period in which he describes himself as “a lie”.
    I fully respect Burg’s right to express himself, and think he is quite intelligent. But I was simply asking when many Jews will realize his lack of credibility in anything he says.

  5. I don’t agree with Rav Ovadia Yosef’s political views, but does that mean he isn’t credible on other fronts?
    OMG, Avraham Burg was once part of major Israeli institution and is now non-Zionist. Shocker. Don’t people change their minds all the time? Particularly when new information is introduced?

  6. You’re missing my point. It’s that if I disagree with Burg, so his views aren’t credible. It’s that he himself has admitted to living part of his life as a complete lie. Once that happens, everything he says, or any decision he makes, must be questioned imo.
    I rarely agree with anything Rav Ovadiah Yosef says. But unless one day he admits that it was all fake, and that he was “living a lie” as Jewish religious leader, then he remains believable. I trust that he believes what he says, however messed up it may be.

  7. Jason, while I understand your desire for consistency, that is not how politics works. My sense is that Burg stuck around for as long as he thought he could do good from the inside. When the contradiction became to much, he left. Plus, as is clear from his career, has has not always been so critical of zionism. I imagine some of his experiences at the sachnut let him to see things in new ways.

  8. My sense is that Burg stuck around for as long as he thought he could do good from the inside. When the contradiction became to much, he left.
    Nope. His political star was dimming so he left public service to pursue business. His little real estate development failed; it was only some years later that he started with this post-aliyah nonsense.
    With all due respect to his years of service, he should now move abroad and leave Zionism to (a) the people that still believe in it, and (b)the people for whom there is no alternative to Israel.
    I strongly suspect there are some Freudian father issues behind his distaste for Israel and Zionism.
    He is relevant at this point only to the Ha’aretz editorial board (and a smattering of Ha’Aretz readers) and to N. American Jews who like to talk about this stuff. He is not some important voice that we need to be listening to. It only seems that way. Don’t beleive the hype.

  9. Hey Jason,
    I hear what you’re saying, but you’d better check your facts about Rav Avadiah Yoseph…
    Rav Avadiah has been one of the most open-minded rabbis, if not the most, of his generations (ie, his ruling, long ago, that it is possible to give up parts of the Land of Israel to save lives; his ruling that the Ethiopians are definetly Jews; even last week, he approved a new organ-donation system in Israel, by which hunderds of lives may be saved annually.
    Not so relevant to the Burg conversation, but important that people know.

  10. Rav Avadiah has been one of the most open-minded rabbis, if not the most, of his generations (ie, his ruling, long ago, that it is possible to give up parts of the Land of Israel to save lives; his ruling that the Ethiopians are definetly Jews; even last week, he approved a new organ-donation system in Israel, by which hunderds of lives may be saved annually.
    Most open-minded *haredi* rabbis, perhaps. The examples you mention are all things that most people take for granted.

  11. “Haredi” must cover just about every national-religous rabbi; because there sure aren’t many of them sanctioning giving up parts of the Land. It’s hard to find Orthodox rabbis who will, especially on the “level” that Rav Ovadiah is held.
    Of course, what the Shas network has done for the Mizrachim, who haven’t exactly been showered with love over the years, is the topic for another blog, by somebody more qualified than me.

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