Demand a cease fire
From Avaaz.org
With over 400 Palestinians and 4 Israelis killed and the death toll mounting daily, we urgently need to demand that world leaders take strong diplomatic action to end the violence. An Israeli ground invasion is believed to be imminent and would claim many more lives — we must act fast to demand that our leaders act now.
Sign their petition here.
For the first time in a long time Israel is doing the right thing no matter how bad the consequences may be. I think that there’s a proverb from Pirkei Avos that says something along the lines of: If you don’t rebuke/punish the wicked at the appropriate time, you will harm the righteous at the inappropriate time.
Haven’t most of the world’s countries exhausted their diplomatic avenues (i.e. telling Israel and/or the Palestinians to stop doing X) already? As far as I can tell, nearly all have already demanded an immediate ceasefire.
There isn’t a whole lot other nations can do beyond that except mobilizing their own militaries, and I don’t think anyone else really wants in on this conflict.
From exactly whom should our world leaders “demand a cease fire?”
And forgive me for possibly sounding sarcastic, but why weren’t petitions like these floated when Hamas was bombarding Sderot on a daily basis?
I think we also need to look at these numbers given by Avaaz. Of the 400 Palestinians they list as having been killed, the vast majority have been connected with Hamas’ military wing. Even The Guardian, not known for being particularly sympathetic with Israel, places the civilian death toll in Gaza at 60. So what we’re seeing is that 15% of the deaths qualify as collateral damage.
This does demonstrate that Israel is making an honest attempt to minimize civilian casualties, while on the other hand, Hamas does fire its rockets rather indiscriminately at civilians and their technology simply doesn’t allow them to aim well.
I’m more of a dove than a hawk by nature, but imposing a cease fire without some sort of mechanism in place to prevent Hamas from [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwP_LusgPAw&feature=channel_page]stockpiling missiles in mosques[/url] and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI&feature=channel_page]launching mortars from schools[/url] is simply irresponsible.
I don’t want to see a single other Palestinian or Israeli killed in this mess and I would love to see a real cease fire put in place and the siege lifted so Gazans can get on with (or, sadly for most, start rebuilding) their lives. But for that to happen there MUST be real international monitoring to prevent Hamas from building its military capabilities and real penalties for violations by both sides. Imposing a cease fire to save a few lives now while allowing Hamas to continue devoting all their resources to [url=http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,531578,00.html]rocket building[/url] and their plan to destroy Israel is not acceptable. Hamas has made it abundantly clear they aren’t interested in negotiating peace with Israel. The day Hamas agrees that peaceful recognition of a Jewish state in the land of Israel is a possibility for them is the day that I’ll back efforts to restrain Israel.
I’m in agreement with you, themicah. A ceasefire followed by a serious effort towards a peace treaty is in order, but it’s not what Hamas is serving.
As far as those who keep asking what good is the ADL these days (yes, I do believe some criticism is in order for not showing solidarity with the Armenian community) they have a petition that chastizes the UN Security Council for drawing an equivalency between Israel and Hamas.
Penk,
You wrote :”but why weren’t petitions like these floated when Hamas was bombarding Sderot on a daily basis?” I think the call for the cease fire says it all when it says, “With over 400 Palestinians and 4 Israelis killed and the death toll mounting daily” The Qassam attacks on Sderot have not caused many deaths–which is also why Israel was so remarkable at showing restraint. But the death toll is shocking, and while many are militants, many are not. Perhaps half, according to some reports. We know that the 60 civilian counts are JUST women and children, and are coming from the UN. I think the cease fire call is balanced, it reports dead on both sides and seeks to end the violence, not allow Hamas to continue its rocket attacks, or for Israel to escalate with a ground invasion. God willing some reason will strike the minds of both Hamas and the IDF/IAF
Ugh, I posted all those links using bbcode instead of html. Let’s try again:
I’m more of a dove than a hawk by nature, but imposing a cease fire without some sort of mechanism in place to prevent Hamas from stockpiling missiles in mosques and launching mortars from schools is simply irresponsible.
I don’t want to see a single other Palestinian or Israeli killed in this mess and I would love to see a real cease fire put in place and the siege lifted so Gazans can get on with (or, sadly for most, start rebuilding) their lives. But for that to happen there MUST be real international monitoring to prevent Hamas from building its military capabilities and real penalties for violations by both sides. Imposing a cease fire to save a few lives now while allowing Hamas to continue devoting all their resources to rocket building and their plan to destroy Israel is not acceptable. Hamas has made it abundantly clear they aren’t interested in negotiating peace with Israel. The day Hamas agrees that peaceful recognition of a Jewish state in the land of Israel is a possibility for them is the day that I’ll back efforts to restrain Israel.
There. That’s better.
Hamas used the last cease fire to build up an arsenal of rockets that are more dangerous and reach even farther. They won’t use a cease fire to help their own people they will only use it for military purposes. A cease fire won’t help the Palestinians in Gaza.
This is from an interview Jeffrey Goldberg did with in The Atlantic with the recently killed Hamas leader Niar Rayyan:
“There was no flexibility with Rayyan. This is what he said when I asked him if he could envision a 50-year hudna (or cease-fire) with Israel: “The only reason to have a hudna is to prepare yourself for the final battle. We don’t need 50 years to prepare ourselves for the final battle with Israel.” There is no chance, he said, that true Islam would ever allow a Jewish state to survive in the Muslim Middle East. “Israel is an impossibility. It is an offense against God.”
What are our crimes? I asked Rayyan. “You are murderers of the prophets and you have closed your ears to the Messenger of Allah,” he said. “Jews tried to kill the Prophet, peace be unto him. All throughout history, you have stood in opposition to the word of God.””
Cease fire now and tell the citizens of Sderot, Ashkelon and the other southern communities to deal with the rocket attacks! Easy to say from your apartment in Ramat Aviv or the Lower East Side, isn’t it?
Evan, your shallow accusations that calls for a ceasefire are NOT conducted PRECISELY out of concern for the safety of southern Israel are a waste of hot air.
Further, your IP address shows you’re in America also, so if *we* don’t have authority to criticize, then neither do you. So zip it.
KFJ, How do you know Evan’s IP address? Is this a dumb question?
And Evan, I think that Israel is very wrong, morally and strategically, to bomb, but I also don’t think you need to “zip it” – I say post away. Not that you need my encouragement, but at least I wanted to speak for those of us who don’t believe in squelching dissent on a freaking blog.
I didn’t say anything about you having the right to criticize the IDF’s action. Criticize away. KFJ, if we go by your line of thinking the only people who have any say are the residents of Southern Israel. You said it not me. Go do a poll in Sderot and see what you find out. I’m sorry your ‘progressive’ friends in Union Square are giving you dirty looks because of Israel’s actions, but thats hardly a priority for the State of Israel.
Real interesting discussion, however, it blows my mind that your protesting only started once Israel retaliated. Where was your call for the ceasing of fire on Israel the past 8 years?
Just curious.
Evan,
IIRC, KFJ lives in Israel. His criticisms are not from the armchair, and your suggestion that they are is a cheap ad hom attack that is based on a false premise. I disagree with KFJ, but I respect his right to hold those opinions. And I think also that he is a contributor/moderator that he can view ip addresses.
KFJ – if one of my Israeli clients were to visit here while connected to VPN, you would see a Maidenhead, England IP addy. They’re not reliable.
Actually, I don’t live in Israel although I travel there frequently. As a site admin, I am privy to people’s IP postings, which can definitely be misread and/or misleading.
But whereas Evan is right that I live in NYC, he is wrong to imply that Israel should care about my friends in Union Square (what friends in Union Square?) he SHOULD care about the Jewish communal professionals with whom I spend every day and my weekends. Dude, I live in a reprehensible all-Jewish-all-communal-employees bubble in NYC. So my “friends” are the people who are being relied upon to defend this political ploy by Kadmia prior to Israeli elections.
What happened in Lebanon in 1982? In Lebanon in 2006? And the last Gaza incursions? None have ever stopped the rockets.
This will be like all the other attempts. What’s the definition of insanity again: doing the same thing again and again hoping for different results? Yeah, this is it.
So, unrelated to Israel and Palestine, but related to blogging: I’d like to propose that in the future, site administrators NOT make reference to info they glean from IP addresses, which frankly seems pretty shady – particularly when the info is then used for the express purpose of rebutting someone’s argument. If you want to know something about someone, you can engage them in dialogue, not take a shortcut only available to a small group of people.
Oh so only a few deaths in Sederot huh justin ?!
Oh I guess we should just keep a stiff upper lip and take it.
I am blown away as how far you can “understand” the other side that you have lost all sensitivity to reason and nation.
You and the rest give progressive judaism and liberalism a bad name.
to i love jewschool-
It would seem to me that those who have lost sensitivity to reason would be those whom rationalize why it is acceptable to take the lives of hundreds in the name of a few. I am not saying don’t respond, I am not a pacifist; but any response must be measured, moderate and responsible–the world agrees that what is happening in Gaza is not so.
As for “sensitivity to nation,” I have said it before I will say it many times over, I have no affiliation to nation. I ask you, what of your sensitivity to justice? This is not a black/white, right/wrong situation. It can be that Israel is wrong and so is Hamas, it does not have to be when one says that the incursion in Gaza is wrong that then the rocket attack on the south is right. All parties in this are wrong. As in Summer ’06 in Lebanon, Israel has the right to self-defense, the tactics we have seen are not self-defense.
What has happened to the Jewish people that those of us that question the justness of the military of the state of Israel are dealt with as traitors? When did we become a people that says all or nothing; we are a culture of nuance and doubt, of questioning and self-inventory. And yet, when it comes to Zionism and Zionist related issues, “you are with us or against us.” Why do we bring it to such a base level of discourse so as to say that one who holds a certain opinion “give progressive judaism and liberalism a bad name.” I don’t care about the labels of progressive, judaism, or liberal; what we are talking about here is the willful killing of hundreds, so many civilians and non-combatant police officers. Added to 41.5 years of occupation–we have no concept, what person on the planet would accept to live with another nation controlling their movement, their trade, their income, their everything!? And when those of us question the validity of such widespread destruction in the single densest populated area on the planet, when we question such acts we are traitors, we have abandoned reason? Perhaps some see that such violence will not bring peace.
We tell ourselves Israel “has no other options,” yet Israel has not ever tried other options. We say the people who live in southern Israel cannot be expected to live under fire, so it is acceptable for Gazans to live under fire? Much, much more destructive fire…
The world sees a bully picking on a relatively unarmed foe, they’re correct. The key to peace is through the people, military incursions only serve to further alienate the people. To a Palestinian child, the face of death is an 18 year old Israeli. Why would Israel not instead seek to implant an image for that child of 18 year old Israelis building houses and hospitals, building schools and encouraging trade. Why not lift the blockade that has starved and isolated these people for three years, why not allow foreign journalists in, why not act like a mature, civilized democracy? If there is a real threat and a serious need to extricate it, then do so with grace and honor. This is not a matter of saying, it is ok that one side or the other lose some people–it is time to say it is wrong to kill unnecessarily, and for one side to say these attacks pose an existential threat, and then to unleash fury unlike that which is often seen, well, that, to me, defies reason.
I’m sorry if you feel like I or anyone on this website gives anyone else a bad name–you should, instead, try and let each of us speak for ourselves, rather than transfer our opinions to that of “progressive judaism” or “liberalism” as a whole.
KFJ,
I believe Israel has learned from its military mistakes, and you can see that by looking at their aggressive rhetoric. Lebanon was a disaster, for morale and politician involved (except Olmert, of course) and for that reason, the current leadership can’t afford a loss on a similar scale.
The IDF is going all in, and will stay for a long time. Long enough to liquidate Hamas and restructure who’s in power. The world has always struggled with dealing with a democratically elected terrorist government.
Your calls for a cease fire are hopelessly optimistic. Stop fighting. Great. Then what? We go back to rockets and another invasion.
It is partly just plain luck that there are not more deaths in towns like Sderot. Many rockets have just missed schools. It is also because the residents of Sderot live in their basements or in caves.
Justin, you claim Israel is entitled to act in self-defense but that Israeli actions in 2006 in Lebanon and presently in Gaza are disproportionate and go beyond ‘self-defense.’ What type of response from Israel would be effective in stopping Hamas and proportionate in your eyes? Should Israel build Qassam rockets and indiscriminately shoot them into Beit Hanoun? Would that meet your test?
Evan-
Proportionality in war is not about tit for tat, it’s about calculating the presumed cost of life in the attack and making reasonable reaction that accords for the presumed cost of life in the response. Since 2001, a total of 18 Israelis have been killed, and however many thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands?) of dollars in damage to homes and infrastructure in the south. Since 2001 there have been countless deaths and endless damage done in Gaza–this is not proportional. There must be a way to excise terrorist threat and not make new terrorists all the while. Again, I do not hear anyone on this site calling for Israel to be attacked, or for just Israel to cease fire–people are desiring that both sides cease fire. I do not hear people taking away Israel’s right to self-defense, but rather questioning if these tactics are the right way to bring peace.
So, again, it’s not about using the same weapons or anything like that, it’s not about tit for tat. What’s more, I would hope and pray that Israel (or any other nation or militia) utilize the despicable tactics of Hamas or other terrorists.
sorry, i didn’t finish one of those sentences, a total of 18 Israelis have been killed by rockets from Gaza since 2001