Agreements, schmeements!
I have been watching with enthralled pleasure as the Obama administration begins treating Israel not as a pampered toddler but as the adult country it is. Although with Bibi at the helm, it’s more like dealing with a whiny teenager.
An era of double standards appears to be passed; Obama officials have demanded that Israel carry out the letter of its agreements with the Palestinians and America. Instead of punishing the Palestinians for failing to fulfill unreachable benchmarks and coddling Israel by allowing it to break agreements, we have these conversations between US Mideast Envoy George Mitchell and Netanyahu’s officials:
“But we’ve never heard a thing about them [alleged Bush-Sharon agreements permitting settlement growth] — they certainly weren’t formal agreements between our governments. The Israelis want us to commit to oral understandings we have never heard about, but at the same time they are not willing to commit to written agreements their government has signed, like the road map and commitment to the two-state solution.”
As an embarassing example, at a meeting between Mitchell and the Israeli Deputy Prime Minister:
At the meeting, the Israelis claimed there was a letter between former president George W. Bush and former prime minister Ariel Sharon stating that the settlement blocs would remain in Israeli hands, so construction is permitted there. Mitchell showed the Israelis that one of the letter’s sections discusses the principle of two states for two peoples. “That is also written in the letter — do you agree to that?” he asked.
The Netanyahu government is squirming under the fair-minded standard that governments follow their agreements. This is, after all, what is demanded of Hamas, that as a member of the Palestinian government it abide by prior agreements between Israel and the PA. The State of Israel has agreed time and again that a Palestinian state will be created in the territories, and now Netanyahu wants to reneg? I’m sorry, there is no place in government for that intransigence.
If not, then the US should consider what was leaked to the New York Times, that the US not veto key UN resolutions critical of Israel. Let Netanyahu reap what he sows.
Clearly this post is meant to provoke, so let the games begin!
The Palestinians should stop being held to unreasonable benchmarks? Like not shooting rockets at civlian areas? Totally unreasonable.
“This is, after all, what is demanded of Hamas, that as a member of the Palestinian government it abide by prior agreements between Israel and the PA.”
…And Israel agreed that Hamas should continuing firing rockets, attempting to send suicide bombers into Israel’s cities, and teaching its Children that a real map has no such place called Israel and that their life’s mission is to destroy the Zionist entity?
Maybe holding to agreements is what is demanded of Hamas, but they certainly don’t take direction well. Why should Israel offer any favors? We’ve offered a two-state solution before, you’re right…but have always been turned down. I see no reason new leadership has to keep the same offer on the table indefinitely when the other side has made their intentions known.
Being critical of Israel’s government is great, and necessary, but perhaps you should see the faults with the Palestinian one as well?
As the NYT pointed out, the measures are “all largely symbolic”. The only thing that might convince Israel to end its slow-motion suicide through settlements is the threat of actual repercussions — removing financial and/or military assistance. Neither is on the table, and so Israel will continue to jeopardize its own existence and the safety and security of Jews throughout the world.
I have been watching with enthralled pleasure as the Obama administration begins treating Israel not as a pampered toddler but as the adult country it is
The age analogy is apt, but your tone isn’t particularly mature.
The important part is that unlike its predecessor, the Obama administration acts like an adult, and so its expectations are that anyone it addresses act like adults. If Obama and his foreign policy team is insisting both Israel and Palestine live up to written agreements, it’s not to score points for or against one team or another, but to bring about a workable peace for everyone.
As the NYT pointed out, the measures are “all largely symbolic”.
This does seem to be the case, and it’s a bit suprising that KFJ is so optimistic that President Obama will press Israel very hard.
The only thing that might convince Israel to end its slow-motion suicide through settlements is the threat of actual repercussions — removing financial and/or military assistance.
The entire paradigm shift that occured in Israel since ’67 will probably mean the country’s destruction…but has history not shown that what is needed for a two-state agreement is a confluence of wills on both sides? It hasn’t happened (at least in my lifetime,) except for six months in 2000, when it looked like a deal might occur.
Maybe holding to agreements is what is demanded of Hamas, but they certainly don’t take direction well.
You don’t get it, beershevaboheme6. There is a school of thought in certain “pro-Israel, pro-peace” circles that including Hamas is actually critical in coming to an agreement!!!! I can’t understand it either.
Simon and Boheme, both of you are ignoring (by accident or design, neither speaks well) the dearth of organized terrorism from the West Bank. Viz a viz settlement activity, we’re talking about the West Bank where the PA has greatly accomplished its duties in stamping down terrorism! Terror in the West Bank is now random knifings and occasional shootings, hardly the organized campaigns of a suicidal guerrilla army out to throw the Jews into the sea.
The Nation reports on 500 Palestinian soldiers trained by the US who kept the West Bank policed during the Gaza war.
And what does the West Bank get for its trouble? Nothing? I think not. You cannot punish the secular Fatah government in the West Bank for the radical religious brinkmanship of Hamas in Gaza.
Does anyone else see the very, very important distinctions between which Palestinians are treated in which manner?
What is also troubling to me, is how often Fatah disappears from any conversation.
Too often I find myself encountering the rhetoric that comes from the anti-Israeli to pro-Hamas end of the spectrum that completely ignores that Fatah is feeding Palestinians, improving the economy of the West Bank, keeping Palestinians from being killed– and if anyone addresses these examples of Fatah being responsible to and for their own people the traditional response is to dismiss Fatah as sellouts to Israel.
When I find myself dealing with a knee-jerk Likudnik (or worse) they don’t seem to grasp that the West Bank and Gaza situations are distinctly different. They don’t get that the 500 Palestinian soldiers (that KFJ mentions) are keeping not just Palestinians, but Israelis safe. They don’t get that the U.S. aid and training is going to that cause, and not to purchasing qassams for Hamas.
You’re making the perfect argument to strengthen Fatah, but not Hamas, KFJ. This is the correct argument. Perhaps this is an oppurtunity to demonstrate to the Palestinians that compromise and cooperation pay dividends (Fatah) and violence and rejectionsm only brings disaster (Hamas.)
At least consider bringing this up with your friends at JStreet.
It seems like the writing is on the wall regarding a similar debate concerning Iran, btw…whereby many (most?) American Jews will ask if military action against Iran is prudent…But will the Progressive community acknoweldge than this Iranian regime with nuclear weapons is a huge danger?…Or will it adopt the position that such claims are simply the puffery of the “war-mongering” Jewish right?
KFJ, I am very cognizant of the difference between terrorists and civilians, Fatah and Hamas, and while terrorism emanating from the West Bank has greatly decreased (and I realize the explosive effect this idea will have) I think a good portion of that is due to the security fence-wall-barrier-divider, pick your term. While Fatah has done many a good thing in their post-Arafat years in terms of actually using incoming aid to feed/clothe/educate the people, they have at base, always been a terrorist organization, and I am more than a little hesitant to accept that they’ve simply thrown that out the window beyond appearances. We are talking about the party led by Mahmoud Abbas, a man who based his PhD on denying the holocaust. Their charter, last I read it, still proclaimed a Palestine extending…lets just say a bit further than the land called “Israel”. Just a thought.
There is a school of thought in certain “pro-Israel, pro-peace” circles that including Hamas is actually critical in coming to an agreement!!!! I can’t understand it either.
This would probably surprise you Jonathon1, but actually consider myself Pro-Israel, Pro-Peace, and that’s why I think we need Peace (On BOTH SIDES) to come to a successful agreement. While the West Bank should not be held responsible for actions tied only to Gaza, if we grant statehood to the West Bank (and they were to accept it…which obviously hasn’t happened yet) what would happen to the people of Gaza? We just go “Hey Egypt, CATCH! They’re all you?” Something tells me that wouldn’t work out. So what is the alternative? We simply allow them to become an independent terrorist state sharing a border with Israel?
Thousands of people wiser than I have attempted to “solve” this conflict for ages…how I wish we had a perfect answer here.
Why would it suprise me that you are Pro-Israel/Pro-Peace?
A deal will need to be made with the only party that might make a deal–Fatah. It is not inconceivable that they can take control of Gaza back (in any case, Gaza will need to be tripled southward, into present-day Sinai, as part of an agreement.)
Thousands of people wiser than I have attempted to “solve” this conflict for ages…how I wish we had a perfect answer here.
There probably is no answer is the answer, it seems.
Boheme, why would the security barrier work?
First, it’s not even 60% finished. And have you visited the barrier? It’s chock full of holes and leaks all over, nevermind how the recent acts of shooting, stabbing and bulldozer terrorism have originated from the East Jerusalemites locked within the wall on the Israel side. The security barrier will stop infiltrators — when you can no longer just catch a sherut to where it’s incomplete, that is.
Second, I wish I could cite the source, but the Shin Bet reported in 2007 that the decline in terrorism was the result of cooperation and the ceasefire with the PA, not the wall.
Third, the Intifada is over. Until tensions soar again. Bibi seems to be doing his best to provoke one.
The wall has not been the magic bullet.
You’re right, the wall is no magic bullet, nor would it be even if it were complete. I HAVE visited the wall, on several occasions, at a number of different points, and with everyone from Humanitarian organizations to IDF representatives. I’ve even seen a stream of people ducking through a hole in it, to the other side. You’re right, in many places it is so penetrable, the stir around it is practically laughable.
However, there are other places where it IS impenetrable , like Qalqilya, a city that sent more suicide bombers per capita into Israel proper than any other prior to the erection of the wall around it. Should the innocent people of Qalqilya be trapped the way they are in a humanitarian light? Absolutely NOT. But does the wall and 24 hour army outpost by the city work? It does, because there hasn’t been a successful suicide bomber from Qalqilya in several years, although many were caught trying to leave with explosives. I don’t think the sudden drop-off was due to Fatah, as much as I’d like to. Perhaps they help maintain peace there today, having never been closer then the barrier overlooking the city, I don’t know what happens on the streets, but I sincerely hope so. If they DO have a hand in keeping the peace, then hopefully someday (sooner rather than later) we will be able to tear down this concrete eyesore on the landscape and both sides can share a table and a solution.
Because that IS what I want. Peace. From BOTH parties.
Kung Fu Jew,
I find this post to be naive at best and dangerous at worst. You seem to propose a new double standard. Bibi and the settlers need to be stood up to, but so too do all Palestinian leaders. If Bibi is to be expected to enforce policies that will clearly be unpopular in his country, then so too should Hamas and Fatah. For starters, Israel needs to be recognized by the Palestinians and rocket attacks must be stopped completely. Even one attack is unacceptable. You are quite happy that Israel will now be treated like an adult country, but don’t you think the Palestinian leadership should also show that they can grow up? You seem to take delight at the prospect of a new double standard, which I pray will never materialize.
“like Qalqilya, a city that sent more suicide bombers per capita into Israel proper than any other prior to the erection of the wall around it.”
is there a source for this? can you prove such a drastic assertion?
I wish I had a printed source on hand, it was a statistic I was told on a tour of the barrier with an IDF spokesman in 2006. I’ll look around…