Culture, Politics

Right-Wing Jews Support Forgetting The Armenian Genocide

The Washington Bureau of Hurriyet, one of Turkey’s mainstream and influential daily newspapers, reports:

Turkey’s newly appointed ambassador to Washington has dived into a busy schedule to prevent the passage of the Armenian “genocide” bill in his first days in office and received support from a Jewish organization.
Ambassador Namık Tan met with “the representatives of almost all Jewish lobbies and organizations in Washington” over the weekend, according to sources in the Turkish Embassy in Washington, D.C. According to the same sources, Tan met with the representatives of “eight or 10 Jewish organizations,” including the Anti-Defamation League, or ADL; American Jewish Community, or AJC; and B’nai B’rith International. They say the meetings are not only focused on the Armenian “genocide” bill.

Unbelievable, Heartbreaking, a chillul H’.
Full Story.

48 thoughts on “Right-Wing Jews Support Forgetting The Armenian Genocide

  1. Once again a coalition of brainwashed ultra-Nationalists and Turkish palace historians, supported by a multi-million dollar public relations campaign on behalf of Turkish holocaust-deniers have launched their annual aggressive campaign against the truth and recognition of the Armenian Genocide. Denial of genocide is nothing but a second killing. The current orchestrated campaign of the Turkish government is just as systematic, coordinated and criminal as the genocide carried out in 1915!
    Genocide – extermination of a race – is a political crime. Genocides are not committed by private individuals, but by the state itself.
    The reference to historians and historical science in regard to the Armenian Genocide is a tactical and spurious argument to relieve the world governments from the responsibility to act while simultaneously giving the perpetrators carte blanche. The proper reaction to political crimes is therefore only possible through political response – from the parliamentary houses, the politicians and the governments

  2. What’s wrong with some Jew? Does “never again” only apply to Jews? As an Armenian who’s family was murdered in the Armenian genocide, I am deeply hurt and insulted.

  3. Why do the Jews hate the Armenians so much. Denying the Armenian Holocaust is just about being good to the Turks. The main organizers of the Armenian Holocaust were in fact of a Jewish origin. Why do they hate us so much?

    1. Aratta writes:
      Why do the Jews hate the Armenians so much.
      Let’s not generalize about all Jews; note that Jewschool is a Jewish blog, and many of the commenters who are outraged at this are Jewish.

  4. Never again to Jews, but Armenians don’t count. But Darfur does. Who knows whether we’ll care about the next one or not?
    Um. Aren’t you missing the obvious difference between Darfur and the Armenians?

  5. One needs to wonder why the Turkish Government wastes so much time and energy on this issue…. If they were innocent, they’d have nothing to worry about…or would they now…specially since they know they’ve got the United States tied around their little finger because of the military support the Americans percieve to have there. Sooner or later the truth will come out.
    All I can say is if they were innocent, then they would have nothing to fear and they would see no need to spend so much time trying to re-write hitory.
    As for the Jewish right wing…if what is reported here is true…then buddies, shame on you…!
    Seems to me like Turkey i dictating US and Israeli Foreign Policy

  6. The difference is that the Darfur tragedy is something that occurred (is occurring) during these past few years, and the Armenian tragedy ended before just about every single person walking this planet was born . . . so of course people should make a much bigger deal about Darfur, because maybe those problems can be stopped.
    Even if this law passes, it’s not going to resurrect all of those Armenians. And, for that matter, making all kinds of Holocaust movies, and teaching the Holocaust as a central plank in Hebrew school education, doesn’t really do much go either.

  7. isn’t the point that the memory of genocide is equated in some regard to preventing it? in that remembering it and recognizing it is essential to preventing it? I think DAMW’s point, if I may, is that Jewish voices and money are loud and plentiful on issues like Darfur, but for some reason elements of the Jewish community also cohort with Turkish genocide deniers. It seems self evident that if one is for promoting the memory of one genocide (i.e., the Shoah) one would be for promoting memory of another (i.e., the one which is internationally recognized as the world’s first genocide). It is, frankly, disgraceful to the name of the Jewish people, to God’s name and to the memory of the dead of Shoah and any other genocide that to perpetrate the memory of one genocide another is diminished. THAT is what this is all about. People fear for some inexplicable reason that understanding and acknowledging the Turkish genocide against the Armenians will diminish from the severity and enormity of the Nazi genocide against the Jews. The purpose of memory is not resurrection, it’s ultimately to understand and correct our wrongs and end genocide now and prevent it in the future.

  8. People fear for some inexplicable reason that understanding and acknowledging the Turkish genocide against the Armenians will diminish from the severity and enormity of the Nazi genocide against the Jews.
    Is that it? I thought this was entirely political – to not damage Turkey’s relationship with Israel (or, depending on the person, with the United States), because Turkey takes this very seriously.
    I’ve read about this before, and I’ve never gotten the impression it had anything to do with anything other than not antagonizing the Turkish government over a matter of abstract principle.

  9. I think it’s a mixture of both, em. I think that there are times where the Israeli government will pander to Turkey, but this is an example of the US Jewish lobby, I don’t know about the other 7 or so orgs, but ADL, AJC and BB are not only focused on Israel.

  10. This issue has several facets.
    For the Israeli Foreign Ministry and Israel pumpers in America, this is about a strategic alliance that is sometimes rocky (no thanks to Deputy Foreign Ministery Danny Ayalon).
    For American Jews at large, this is about the tensions between Jewish exceptionalism and Jewish responsibility. I would dare say the power of the Holocaust narrative supercedes the connection to Israel, making this uncomfortable for many Jews. And the balance is shifting, as more of us these days don’t think for a second that Israel will disappear, making the consequences of flouting Israel’s strategic alliance less dire.
    I remember when Abe Foxman was fighting so hard to not acknowledge the Armenian genocide. As irritated as I am with the organized Jewish community because they’re more conservative than I, there has never been anything approaching as hypocritical and damning as a Holocaust surivivor engaging in genocide denial. Foxman is from a previous generation that might be a different dimension to my worldview. But he absolutely lost his hechsher after that.

  11. >>“This issue has several facets.
    For the Israeli Foreign Ministry and Israel pumpers in America, this is about a strategic alliance that is sometimes rocky….
    For American Jews at large, this is about the tensions between Jewish exceptionalism and Jewish responsibility.”

    Actually KFJ this issue goes well beyond Jewish concerns. This is about a secular Muslim country that has been in an accelerating slide towards Islamism and alienating itself from the West.
    The question is whether a provocative ‘dig’ by the West’s leading country at this time will or won’t help keep Turkey as a moderate, Western-facing country….. or increase the likelihood of its being ruled by the type of government that might not be so ashamed of events like the Armenian genocide…

  12. @ Justin.
    Yeah, I know that ADL, et al., are not only focused on Israel, but I just don’t see the evidence that this is about Jewish exceptionalism. If it were about Jewish exceptionalism, you wouldn’t see so many Jewish voices speaking against the genocide in Darfur. You have not seen a widespread reluctance in the Jewish community to label recent (post-Shoah) genocides as such. And do you really think that Abe Foxman is indifferent to the position the Israeli government prefers that he take on this issue?
    It’s absolutely shameful, but not every shameful thing done by Jews is so psychological in its origin.

  13. I’m with em. There’s no evidence that the reluctance on the part of some Israelis and right-wing Jews to prevent recognition of the Armenian genocide has to do with ANYthing other than preservation of Israel’s and the US’ ties to a strategically-important Muslim-majority country.
    Doesn’t make it right, but let’s not make spurious allegations of Jewish exceptionalism, etc.
    (An aside: The Shoah WAS exceptional — for reasons too complicated and varied to go into here. That said, we need to work to prevent/recognize genocide whenever/wherever it occurs/occurred. Grown-up folks are able to maintain both of these concepts in their head without their brains exploding.)

  14. So… after Danny Ayalon’s big FU to the Turks, can Israel PLEASE recognize the Genocide?
    Besides, if a country is going to scrap any and all ties based on a SINGLE issue, then it is no ally or friend.

  15. And let it ring throughout the halls of shuls and JCCs everywhere that the culprit here is none other than JINSA.

  16. So… after Danny Ayalon’s big FU to the Turks, can Israel PLEASE recognize the Genocide?
    Now would seem like a good time to just rip off that band-aid and get it all over with.

  17. @em-
    I think it’s the fact that if people deny the Armenian genocide then they can say that the Shoah is unique because it was “first and worst.”

  18. @rc-
    I’m not saying it’s a product of Jewish nationalism. I think it’s a result of Holocaust education and how the last few generations have experienced its memory. Ultimately, I think it comes from fear (I suppose nationalism ultimately stems from fear also so perhaps there may be a deeper connection) and I think is also one of many symptoms of why the way we have typically educated and remembered the Shoah is not necessarily the healthiest or most productive.

  19. This whole discussion thread is just emblematic of some Jews’ myopic obsession with the Jewish “angle” of every issue. Again folks: this has to do with A LOT MORE than Jewish concerns here. This is about a geopolitical linchpin between Europe and Asia that is at the precipice, facing a decision about whether to go Islamist and anti-Western or remain pro-Western, secular and open. That has, ahem, rather serious implications.
    The problem is that an anti-Turkish punch right now — which is exactly how many normal Turks will see such a resolution — will give ammunition to those political forces pushing for regression and hostility to the West.
    So step out of your gefilte fish for a minute and look at the whole picture please.
    Perhaps it’s a sign of their maturity that “eight or 10 Jewish organizations” are willing to listen to the Turkish ambassador’s take on this issue.
    And if “right wing Jews” were so insistent on maintaining the Holocaust’s “special” status they wouldn’t have been leading the protests during the Darfuri and Bosnian massacres. It was Elie Wiesel himself who at the dedication of the Holocaust Museum in DC called on President Clinton to intervene in Bosnia.

  20. Jonathan, fine points all. I would agree that a focus on Darfur is more important. But it’s also important to respect the deaths of the Armenians. It’s a desecration of their lives to treat them this way in death.

  21. @eric-
    I would agree with you that to the turks this is not a jewish issue, but to your average american jew, this is not a turkish issue and that’s why they’re coming to them

  22. I take heart seeing the compassion of most Jews in this debate. Systematic and planned slaughter of defenseless humans is wrong regardless of who was first and who the perpetrators “friends” are. One of the few ways to attempt to stop genocide is denouncing it loudly without debate. The Turkish governments current attempts to quash recognition of genocide is “the final step of genocide”. Hopefully the righteousness of Jews here will eventually filter to the top (or bottom) and reach these American Jewish political organizations to stop supporting the Turks in this.
    And to Jonathan1, there still are a few survivors of the genocide left, come see them at Time Square on April 24 (25th). They will be in the front row one step away from their front row Ressurection position.

  23. “@eric-
    I would agree with you that to the turks this is not a jewish issue, but to your average american jew, this is not a turkish issue and that’s why they’re coming to them”

    It’s only a “Jewish issue” because Jewish groups are (apparently) among those intelligent folks who don’t want to see a moderate Muslim country slide off the cliff into the Islamist camp.
    Perhaps the moral consequences of that scenario outweigh a Legislative Branch public service announcement that the Ottoman Empire murdered over 1 million Armenians 94 years ago. Wowsa, they did?! What an informative news flash. Thank the gods for the US Congress — we would be total ignoramuses without them.
    Fortunately there’s an enormous amount of scholarship about the Armenian genocide and no lack of information — with or without a Congressional holy proclamation.
    And let me ask: if there was a risk that a Congressional proclamation about a long-studied anti-Jewish campaign carried out by a large European or Muslim government last century would provoke that government to stop its present-day security or military cooperation, or move into a hostile alliance, would you also be shouting for it? I sure hope we’re not that immature.
    But I know we’re all just far too morally sophisticated to consider such things, aren’t we? History and geopolitics are just so boring. Much more fun to scream at evil “right-wing Jews”…

  24. And to Jonathan1, there still are a few survivors of the genocide left, come see them at Time Square on April 24 (25th).
    So?

  25. Turkey a “moderate” country?! Someone tell the Kurds. Or the Cypriots.
    What makes you think that promoting the Turkish cover-up somehow achieves the effect of stopping Islamic extremism in its tracks? The promotion of secular dictatorships as a bulwark against Islamic extremism is hardly working (see Egypt), so how’s this any more effective?

  26. here’s why the importance of recognizing the Armenian genocide should be intuitive to Jews:
    “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” Adolf Hitler, 1939-08-22

  27. here’s why the importance of recognizing the Armenian genocide should be intuitive to Jews:
    “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” Adolf Hitler, 1939-08-22

    U.S. House panel votes to recognize Armenian genocide, 23-22 (Haaretz)
    Thank God!!!! Now there will surely be no more genocides!!!!

  28. eric-
    I don’t know what you think i’m trying to say, but i’m not denying that to turkey is is exactly about what you’re saying. i think you’re ignoring the complexity of the issue in the psychology of your old-guard typically educated Zionist American Jew.

  29. Thank God!!!! Now there will surely be no more genocides!!!!-Jonathan1.
    Are you sure you are Jewish? If so,why do you take the name of God in vain?????? I suspect you are really low class goyim.

  30. >>>“i think you’re ignoring the complexity of the issue in the psychology of your old-guard typically educated Zionist American Jew.”
    The typical “old-guard typically educated Zionist American Jew” is sickened at the idea of genocide and would support doing a hell of a lot to stop it, probably including military intervention.
    The question is whether provoking a strategic ally at a strategic time in that ally’s sociopolitical development, over an event that occurred a century ago, is a morally intelligent or defensible thing to do — even though it makes people feel very warm, fuzzy and brave for “taking” such a “stand”.
    The Armenians who were murdered, were murdered. Their Turkish Muslim killers mainly got away with the crime. But the Turkish Muslims who descended from them now populate a moderate Muslim state whose geopolitical importance is difficult to overstate. And they are very testy (rightly or IMO wrongly) about being censured over what happened almost 100 years ago.
    I’m not sure what “complexity” you’re referring to — but if any side in this discussion tends to ignore complexity it’s those who clamor for an urgent Congressional proclamation about a century-old event while disregarding the consequences that action will provoke in the current world.

  31. Um, why is everyone accepting the report as true? First of all, it says he “received support from a jewish organization.” Sounds like a single organization (which, based on its historical position would be the ADL) despite having met with a whole lot. And second, the very notion contradicts what was widely reported in the Arab and international press- that the Jewish lobby was responsible for the Congressional resolution finally calling the genocide a genocide. See, for example: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1154423.html

  32. Justin,
    the only joke here is that one group that was subjected to Genocide is assisting the perpetrator of another group’s Genocide (which happened to become the model for their own). Sadly, it is a deplorable joke in very bad taste with Satanic overtones.
    Goy II

  33. @Robert. Nobody here thinks there is anything wrong with being a non-Jew (Goy.)
    I just hope non-Jews don’t stumble onto this forum and read your words.

  34. >>See, for example: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1154423.html
    —Siviyo · March 6th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Hmmmmmm…. according to that article, the big evil right-wing Jewish lobby may have played a rather different role than assumed above.
    “Jewish lobbyists contrived a U.S. congressional vote that labeled the World War One-era massacre of Armenians by Turkish forces as genocide, a London-based Arabic-language newspaper claimed on Saturday.”
    If that’s true we might have to stop yelling at “right-wing Jews” …. which would definitely cut down on the fun.

  35. Jews and Armenians are brothers even if we don’t realize it in the conscience. Turks always hated Jews, so why we should support them against a fact that concerned us direclty in the history ?

  36. Jews and Armenians are brothers even if we don’t realize it in the conscience. Turks always hated Jews, so why we should support them against a fact that concerned us direclty in the history ?
    @eddy; John; Aratta; Berge Baonian; Robert; xisnott; and Lazar:
    The murder of millions of Armenians happened during the years 1914-1918 . . . we’re living in 2010 now. We really are! Do all of you actually think that a government/organization that does not officially condemn those murders is somehow complicit in those murders? What form of Criminal Law is this? What exactly is everybody hoping for here? What’s the end-game, that their deaths will have had purpose if the Knesset passes a resolution on the matter? I’ve got bad news for everybody, only HaShem understands the reason behind those murders, and I have a hard time believing that all of those souls would rest easier if Ruby Rivlin were only to condemn the 2010 Turkish government for 1915 killings.

  37. To Jonathan1;
    the murder of millions of Jews happened during the years 1939-1945…we’re living in 2010 now. We really are?
    How does that feel in your gut, Johnathan?
    We are not hoping for anything, we just want justice like your people received in the worlds’eye.
    by the way, souls don’t rest- they await Resurection- (please see my earlier comment)When they are and if you are around then, you can again attempt to explain your moronic logic and arrogant disrespect to them.

  38. How does that feel in your gut, Johnathan?
    I feel bad for them, but I’m not sure how I’m supposed to prevent their muder a century ago.
    We are not hoping for anything, we just want justice like your people received in the worlds’eye
    I assume you are referring to the millions killed by the Nazis. What justice did they receive?
    When they are and if you are around then, you can again attempt to explain your moronic logic and arrogant disrespect to them.
    Ok. I’ll say to them the same thing I’m saying to you: I’m really sorry for your suffering. However, there was nothing I could do in 2010 to prevent your murder in 1915 (my time-machine is broken.) If I were to meet a Jew from WWII Germany, I would say the same thing.

  39. recognizing and refuting the horrid acts might reduce the probability of recurrence of Genocide, in accordance with the mantra “never again”. That is what you are supposed to do.
    Justice in the form of memorializing both in education and monuments to the sufferers, billions in reparations, a land grab in Palestine and a lifelong claim to scream anti-semitism any time Israel is criticized. Sounds like some justice to me. We’ll take it ior even part of it.
    you could start by supporting our efforts to recognize the events of 1915 for what they were- Genocide- please call you congressmen today- anca.org

  40. I get so frustrated with the knee-jerk Jewish liberals who know little about their own history and even less about Ottoman Turkish/Armenian history.
    The Armenians act as if they were saints during the war, equating their plight to the Jews during the Holocaust. What they don’t tell you is that witnesses saw truck loads of arms and ammunition taken out of their churches in 1915. I quote the respected Turkish-born Albert Amateau. A descendant of Jews who were expelled from Spain in 1492 and settled in the Ottoman Empire, his grandfather later rose to hold the post of Hahambashi of Palestine. Before he died at the age of 106, Amateau documented his personal observations in a sworn statement:
    “–If 1.5 million Armenian lost their lives during that war, they died as soldiers, fighting a war of their own choosing against the Ottoman Empire which had treated them decently and benignly. They were the duped victims of the Russians, of the Allies, and of their own Armenian leaders.–”
    By the way, Amateau was a Jewish man, a lawyer, and lived in New York City.

  41. Shelomo Alfassa, please take your Turkish rewriting history propaganda skills elsewhere! The world knows the truth already of the 3.5 million Christians butchered by the hands of your Turkish friends, yes 3.5 million Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks.. along with thousands of Kurds! So tick it where the moon won’t shine!

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