Americans want Israel held accountable for WMDs & Human Rights
US Newswire reports:
A poll conducted by Zogby International, and released [on Wednesday] shows that 56 percent of Americans agree and 29 percent disagree that Congress should pass an Israel accountability act on weapons of mass destruction and human rights violations.
[…]As might be expected, Muslims were strongly in favor of such an act (72 percent), but so were a surprising percentage of Jews (45 percent).
[…]Support for an Israel accountability act came primarily from Democrats and independents (61 percent), 18-29 year-olds (69 percent), progressives (70 percent), and liberals (72 percent), but also a plurality of Republican voters (46 percent).
The draft act and a petition are available on the web.
And after that, we can pass a British Accountability Act, then a French one, a Japanese one, and for good measure, a German one. The foolishness and pure political gamesmanship of this idea shouldn’t be missed. The US has accountability acts for Iran, Syria and Libya because these countries have values and worldviews that are diametrically opposed to those of the United States (nod of encouragement to Libya’s recent steps towards liberalization).
WMD, especially the nuclear kind, are defensive weapons. The US built them out of fear Germany would, the USSR out of fear from the US, Pakistan out of fear of India, and Israel (assuming they really have them) out of fear the Arabs would overwhelm the county with conventional weapons. This was, and can easily be again, a real possibility.
Perhaps if Israel felt a little more secure in it’s ability to exist, it wouldn’t need the have a nuclear card and it might be more willing to give up the West Bank, which is critical defensively in a conventional war. And don’t underestimate the power of conventional war in what is currently a non-conventional, asymmetric world.
It would help to know what the survey questions were, how they were framed. A surbey can get you any result you want. It is all in how you word the questions.
“And after that, we can pass a British Accountability Act, then a French one, a Japanese one, and for good measure, a German one.”
WMDs can be offensive, that’s why Israeli citizens have gas masks, and everyone around the world is paranoid of WMD attacks.
Well, frankly there are some basic differences between America’s relationship with Israel and America’s relationship with England, France, Japan and Germany
1) We don’t bankroll England, France, Japan or Germany
2) We don’t get planes flown into our cities because of our association with England, France, Japan or Germany
3) England, France, Japan and Germany are not in possession of undeclared WMDs nor are they having the same type of Human Rights abuses.
So with those differences in mind, yes we could pass accountability acts for England, France, Japan and Germany.
Come now, people. Israeli WMD?
This discussion does not exist; I’m not seeing this thread either. (applying white-out to his eyeballs as he clicks *submit*)
You should all be put under house-arrest.
😉
zogby’s a real reliable pollster.
next let’s have the saudi’s do the polling.
In response:
1) We don’t bankroll Israel either. Annual support for Israel totals less then 3 billion dollars, while their GDP in 2002 was $117.4
2) Come on, 9/11 had practically nothing to do with our relationship with Israel. Osama hadn’t ever mentioned the “struggle for Palestine†before. And he was only made a reference to Israel after the attack, and after the Palestinians were cheering in the street for him. Osama’s big beef was the fact that US troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia. Remember, US = Big Satan, Israel = Little Satan. Who’s the main focus of the anger?
3) England, France, Germany and Japan all have relatively friendly neighbors. And there is plenty of talk in Japan about going nuclear if N. Korea tests. Maybe if the Arabs would talk of peace and reconciliation instead of war and instigation of their populations, Israel might feel secure enough not to need WMD’s. Oh, and every one of those countries have human rights blemishes in their recent history (during and since WWII) that makes Israel look downright sweet. Besides, Israel has tried to GIVE THE DAMN LAND (and therefore the people it’s “oppressingâ€) TO THOSE PEOPLE!
Accountability for Israel (besides the current accountability already imposed on the foreign aid) is as silly as accountability for England, France, Germany and Japan.
“1) We don’t bankroll Israel either”
“Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today’s population, that is more than $5,700 per person.
…
In a meeting at the White House late last month, Israeli officials made a pitch for $4 billion in additional military aid to defray the rising costs of dealing with the intifada and suicide bombings. They also asked for more than $8 billion in loan guarantees to help the country’s recession-bound economy.
Considering Israel’s deep economic troubles, Stauffer doubts the Israel bonds covered by the loan guarantees will ever be repaid.”
Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US
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“2) Come on, 9/11 had practically nothing to do with our relationship with Israel.”
Oh please
This whole 9/11 and war against muslims is very wrapped up in the US’s relationship with Israel. To deny that is to stick your head in the sand.
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“3) England, France, Germany and Japan all have relatively friendly neighbors.”
Irrelevant. Doesn’t affect my point
“Maybe if the Arabs would talk of peace and reconciliation instead of war and instigation of their populations, Israel might feel secure enough not to need WMD’s.”
Powell Says Saudi Peace Plan Important – March 4th, 2002
Arab summit adopts Saudi peace initiative – March 28, 2002
Hamas would accept Saudi peace plan, spokesman says Group would stop attacks on Israelis if occupation ends – April 28, 2002
Sharon To Saudi Peace Plan: Drop Dead
How to Torpedo the Saudis – March 4th, 2002
“Thirty five years of occupation and settlement have eroded Israel’s abilty to reason, leaving instead a mixture of arrogance and folly
If, in May 1967, an Arab prince had proposed that the whole Arab world would recognize Israel and establish normal relations with it, in return for Israel’s recognition of the Green Line border, we would have believed that the days of the Messiah had arrived. Masses of people would have run into the street, singing and dancing, as they did on November 29, 1947, when the United Nations called for the establishment of a Jewish and an Arab state in Palestine…”
oh and if you’re going to say that the Saudi plan is a trap, not a good deal etc then I’ll strike a ‘pre-emptive attack’ at that old myth:
They know it was a good deal, yet the Likudniks don’t want to give up any land, not for peace, not to save israeli lives, not for security, not for anything.
Israeli leaders express interest in Saudi peace initiative
“Prime Minister Ariel Sharon requested that American officials help arrange a meeting with Saudi officials to discuss Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud’s peace initiative, government sources said. A range of Israeli leaders said the plan, first reported in the New York Times and which reportedly offers Israel full diplomatic relations with Arab countries in exchange for a withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, warranted serious consideration.”
Sharon responds to Syria peace overtures with settlement plan
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Syria backs Middle Eastern WMD-free zone
“It is better for the Americans, for the Israelis, for every citizen on earth, especially in the Middle East, and it is good for the American forces in Iraq, to see that the whole Middle East is a zone free from all mass destruction weapons,” Shara said.
“Also it is very useful to see this taking place because in this case no terrorist, as the Americans say and some Europeans say, no terrorists can have these mass destruction weapons with them.”
England, France, Japan and Germany are not in possession of undeclared WMDs nor are they having the same type of Human Rights abuses.
What about Pakistan? India? What about Russia? They get money from us, have lots more nukes than Israel, and Chechnya seems very similar to the territories. Should we condemn them? The truth is, however much Israel deserves to be criticized, the reason Israel is criticized is because it works.
EMTAlex – see points 1 and 2 above
and yes, of course we should condemn every country that spreads nuclear technology or violates human rights
Interesting that the Zogby site has nothing at all on this. I’d also like to see the survey questions; I have a feeling that the poll respondents weren’t informed of some of the more inflammatory language in the act.
” Interesting that the Zogby site has nothing at all on this.”
look in the right-hand column, the one with the orange text
currently anyway, the last link is:
Americans Want Equal Mideast Accountability…
[read on]
Scoop – New Zealand – (4/7/2004)
Also the Council for the National Interest, who apparently sponsored the poll has a blurb about it on their page, though I can’t find the poll either. I only spent a few minutes looking though.
America taking a more multilateral view could only be good.
Iran taking a more multilateral view could only be good. This is a news article from their Islamic Republic News Agency
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-239/0604273783162848.htm
No mention of Israeli civilians killed, except in the statement that Islamic Jihad will take revenge.