Target: Hospitals
Haaretz reports
“Witnesses in Baalbek said they saw dozens of IAF helicopters hovering over the city. They said the private hospital in Baalbek, filled with patients and wounded people, was bombed by IAF helicopters late Tuesday. Plumes of burning smoke billowed from the hospital after it was directly hit, they said.”
Full Story
Now we’re bombing hospitals? What gives! I hope our soldiers are alright. I hope the patients in Lebanon are alright. But bombing a hospital?
They are in the Bekka Valley, which is the headquarters of Hezbollah training, as well as the major route of Syrian arms shipments. So no, we are not wantonly bombing a hospital. As we should learn from the ’67 war, Arab media make up stories in order to motivate/placate their own population. Perhaps there are some commandos at this hospital on a mission to kidnap a high ranking Hezbollah member, but I find that hard to believe, or at least difficult to believe that such forces would go in so deep into Lebanon without lots and lots of ground support (Hez. is claiming that there are IDF troops trapped in this hospital).
As we should learn from the ‘67 war, Arab media make up stories in order to motivate/placate their own population.
making up stories in times of war isn’t a uniquely Arab thing–it’s called propaganda, and it’s pretty old. This may indeed be propaganda, but I’d point out that it’s not coming from the “Arab media,” but from Haaretz. I hope that the report of bombing a hospital containing patients is incorrect, but I see no denial of that from any Israeli official int he article.
I fear that a hospital was indeed bombed, and we will hear (as some conneters on the article are saying) that Hezbollah had forces in the hospital. Which may be true. But bombing a hospital is still a pretty sure way to kill innocent people.
These injured people should know better than to go to a hospital in a part of the nation where Hezbollah is engaged in defense against Isreal’s temper tantum. Don’t they know that Isreal thinks nothing of killing civilians to further its goals?
What idiots these Lebanese sick people are.
Too bad they are not smart like the zionist Jews.
Sure propaganda isn’t strictly an Arab thing. My point was that it certainly is historically precedent that Arabic media sources (those that are state run) have traditionally reported military victories and such. All I am saying is that Hezboillah sources are not to be trusted. And the Haaretz story merely said that there was fighting around a hospital, which is much different than stating that a hospital was bombed.
And now we’re 7 miles from the Syrian border….? Any opinions?
Why is Israel buggin? Haven’t they made their point? This is making us look bad.
couple of thigns here. One, hizbollah said the hospital was evacuated before the attack, two, a heli sposedly landed, dropped off soldiers who ran to hospital, then sposedly rose and started firing everywhere? Hitting near the hospital? Pretty lousy military tactic if you ask me- drop your soldiers off then fire in their direction to kill your own soldiers?. Also, it was Hizbollah was firing on the hospital- no mention of condemnation about that in the article. They damn Israel for firing on hospital, then turn around and tell of the bravery of Hizbollah as they fire on the hospital. Nah- no double standards there- anti-Semitism is all just an illusion dreamed up by us Zionist supporters, right?
Didn’t hear anythign of any of this on major news channels who would be all over any story light like flies on a gutwagon that shows Israel in a bad .
So it does look like they captured some Hezbollah officials. No bombing of the hospital though..
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292046965&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Hey the eyewitness reports must be correct, they were made by Muslims, and we all know Muslims don’t lie, after all they are the Religion of Peace.
this is interesting, i think this is the first time i’ve seen militants referred to as “junior.” Usually whenever someone is killed or captured in the territories, they’re always a “senior militant,” or a “senior activist,” leaving me to wonder if there are any junior ones. maybe only in Lebanon.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745276.html
IDF forces reportedly captured five junior Hezbollah militants
Miss Yaicha,
I sure do have an opinion: Stay the hell away from Syria! While they might be indirectly involved with this sh*t, I sure as hell don’t want this to become a domino effect where all of the hostile Arab nations are sending their troops to fight in this “conflict”.
Now that we know the truth – Israel had conducted a “surgical strike” rather than a “humanitarian outrage” – could Josh F post a photo of himself eating his words?
Adam wrote, And the Haaretz story merely said that there was fighting around a hospital, which is much different than stating that a hospital was bombed.
I was going on the text of the article, which said, “Witnesses in Baalbek said they saw dozens of IAF helicopters hovering over the city. They said the hospital in Baalbek, filled with patients and wounded people, was bombed by IAF helicopters late Tuesday. Plumes of burning smoke billowed from the hospital after it was directly hit, they said.” Sounds like Haaretz reporting the bombing of a hospital to me. Sure, the witnesses may not have been truthful, but they were apparently trustworthy enough for Haaretz.
Hmm…my bad, sorry I think we were looking at different articles. This is the closest that I saw:
“Israeli warplanes and helicopters started the operation on Baalbek and its surroundings at 10:20 P.M. Israeli helicopters also attacked a target 15 kilometers west of Baalbek, starting a huge fire, witnesses said.
Al-Jazeera television reported that an Israeli commando unit landed near a hospital in that area. According to the report, the unit was planning to attack a senior Hezbollah official suspected of being in the hospital, but the official was not actually located there. “
No worries. Where was that article? Also Haaretz? Love to see a link.
Yeah, here it is…
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745301.html
oh darn confusing Interwebs.
here’s a news video compilation centering on Baalbek: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/VIDEO__Aftermath_of_Deepest_Attack_0802.html
This would explain why Israel claimed they’d only captured “junior” activists. For those unfamiliar the “Angry Arab” is a lebanese poli sci professor in California:
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2006/08/hasan-dib-nasrallah-is-now-in-israeli.html
Hasan Dib Nasrallah is now in Israeli custody. So you heard about that brilliant Israeli special forces’ operation in Ba`albak. So Israeli Orientalists as you all know think that there is one Mahmud Husayn in the entire Arab world, and one Muhammad `Ali. New TV just explained the “daring” Israeli operation at a hospital, HOSPITAL, in Ba`albak. So Israel “was told” that there is a certain Hasan Nasrallah at the hospital. The very commander of the airforce was put in charge to plan this daring kidnapping of Hasan Nasrallah. Well, it was a civilian by the name of Hasan Dib Nasrallah. They kidnapped other civilians along with him. Of course, the Nation magazine gives Israel the right for those kidnapping because it is all part of “its right to self-defense.” Hasan Dib Nasrallah is now in Israeli custody wondering why he was kidnapped. In that “daring raid” Israeli occupation soldiers also kidnapped Muhammad Nasrallah, a shepherd, but later released him. He was 14. Israeli Orientalists thought that Hasan Nasrallah is a bit older. Later, to cover the fiasco, the Israeli army claimed that they kidnapped “members of Hizbullah.” Even that claim was a lie, says New TV which investigated the story and interviewed the family members. The kidnapped Lebanese are poor construction workers.
PS. This is really something. The commander of the Israeli Special Forces still claimed in a press conference that the “operation” worked according to plan. What does that mean? That the Israeli government has been really trying the capture Hasan Dib Nasrallah, not to to be confused with Hasan Nasrallah, the Hizbullah leader?
This would explain why Israel claimed they’d only captured “junior” activists. For those unfamiliar the “Angry Arab” is a lebanese poli sci professor in California:
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2006/08/hasan-dib-nasrallah-is-now-in-israeli.html
Hasan Dib Nasrallah is now in Israeli custody. So you heard about that brilliant Israeli special forces’ operation in Ba`albak. So Israeli Orientalists as you all know think that there is one Mahmud Husayn in the entire Arab world, and one Muhammad `Ali. New TV just explained the “daring” Israeli operation at a hospital, HOSPITAL, in Ba`albak. So Israel “was told” that there is a certain Hasan Nasrallah at the hospital. The very commander of the airforce was put in charge to plan this daring kidnapping of Hasan Nasrallah. Well, it was a civilian by the name of Hasan Dib Nasrallah. They kidnapped other civilians along with him. Of course, the Nation magazine gives Israel the right for those kidnapping because it is all part of “its right to self-defense.” Hasan Dib Nasrallah is now in Israeli custody wondering why he was kidnapped. In that “daring raid” Israeli occupation soldiers also kidnapped Muhammad Nasrallah, a shepherd, but later released him. He was 14. Israeli Orientalists thought that Hasan Nasrallah is a bit older. Later, to cover the fiasco, the Israeli army claimed that they kidnapped “members of Hizbullah.” Even that claim was a lie, says New TV which investigated the story and interviewed the family members. The kidnapped Lebanese are poor construction workers.
PS. This is really something. The commander of the Israeli Special Forces still claimed in a press conference that the “operation” worked according to plan. What does that mean? That the Israeli government has been really trying the capture Hasan Dib Nasrallah, not to to be confused with Hasan Nasrallah, the Hizbullah leader?
Oh, the scorn we should heap on “Israeli Orientalists”. For those of you who might miss the reference, Edward Said, that well know lover of Israel, used the term “Orientalists” to stigmatize those who believe the Western values of democracy and the like should somehow apply to the Muslim nations of the middle-east. And the failure of the [disgusting, awful, stupid, brutal, nazi-like, terroristic – those of you who like can choose the word] Israelis to capture their primary target is obviously grounds for relegating that nation and the Jews who support her (probably 98% of the worldwide Jewish population) to the depths of hell. Somehow, when my people’s lives are at stake, I feel somewhat dirty even having to have discussion.
I think that xisnotx’s post has a lot of interesting stuff in it, while dirrigible’s post contributes nothing new.
I am interested in the war nerd’s assessment that the IDF is losing it. One of my operating assumptions throughout all of this has been the basic competence and skill of the IDF and its ability to achieve its objectives, whatever they may be, with the exception of its larger objectives such as “the removal of hezbollah from southern lebanon.” But at least it should be able to achieve its individual operational objectives. If it’s not performing well, I don’t know what to say about that.
Well, if you go under the premise that their main goal is to create a buffer until a multi-national force arrives…well they kind of are (certainly not smoothly, but) achieving their goals. For all the talk of how difficult the fighting has been (which makes sense when Hez. has been able to re-arm for 6 years) no one seems to be mentioning that this goal is being acheived (difficult to see while rockets are still falling in Israel, I realize).
So far it sounds like this was a successful mission from everything I’ve seen. Israel suffered no casualties and supposedly captured documents and Hezbollah operatives. So “Angry Arab” may need to write fiction to help him get over the fact that his side is suffering terribly due to the actions of his leaders.
The hospital was a Hezbollah command center.. It’s hard for me to sympathize with the civilian casualties in Lebanon when Hezbollah operates in hospitals…
The most unsuccessful war
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745313.html
The Six-Day War and Yom Kippur War were wars of survival, and through them the IDF was revealed in all its greatness. The present war is the most unsuccessful we have ever had; it is much worse than the first Lebanon War, which at least was properly prepared, and in which, with the exception of gaining control over the Beirut-Damascus highway, the army more or less achieved its goals as determined by then-defense minister Ariel Sharon.
It is frightening to think that those who decided to embark on the present war did not even dream of its outcome and its destructive consequences in almost every possible realm, of the political and psychological damage, the serious blow to the government’s credibility, and yes — the killing of children in vain. The cynicism being demonstrated by government spokesmen, official and otherwise, including several military correspondents, in the face of the disaster suffered by the Lebanese, amazes even someone who has long since lost many of his youthful illusions.
Xisntox–not so suprising given the weak ‘liberal’ Olmert’s desire to impress the master of stupidity, the chickhawk Bush.
Really, this is quite embarrassing for leaders of the supposed ‘free world’ on the left of the political spectum.
Masculinist infintle temper tantrums always invoke terror and tragedy. Not too hard to figure out how this will end up–with Isreal shamed and the Arab world (rightly) more apt to rally round and resist the empire/Israel’s impoverished, decrepit, fanatical designs for the region. One step closer to the big nuke frying everything kosher over that region of the ME.
Not too swift from the stupid chickenhawks supporting this gross, criminal stupidity.
“gross criminal stupidity”; “stupid chicenhawks”: words used to criticize Hez and Hab for sending out young men and women to murder Jewish babies by suicide bombs? Guess again.
Congrats, dirrigible. That was one of the most inane mis-descriptions of orientalism I’ve ever seen. Add to that the fact that it was totally a non-sequitur, and you win the prize!
Not sure what prize, but there ought to be one…
Matt, whether or not you agree with my description of Said’s use of “orientalism” you have missed the far more imortant point _Jews are being killed, Jews are being terrortized, Jews are being murdered – and yet some of us use our time to slander Israel. Shame.
Dirrigible, you’ve made that same point over and over again. Do you expect people to look at you in revelatory awe each time? Particularly when the “slander” you speak of is based in a Haaretz report? I tend to think that self-examination is an essential part of being Jewish.
And if your distorted summary of Said wasn’t important, why did you bother with it?
also, you spelled chickenhawk wrong.