Rodin’s ‘Thinker’ too risque for J-town
Jpost reports,
The haredi-controlled Jerusalem municipality has rejected a proposal to bring a replica of Rodin’s The Thinker to Jerusalem due to ultra-orthodox opposition.
“We cannot allow the placement of such a sculpture in a city like Jerusalem,” said Deputy Mayor Shlomi Atias (Shas). “If he was wearing a bathing suit, then maybe it would have passed, but he is totally naked,” he added.
While intelligent comments like the one above were being made by a deputy mayor, the official reason for the rejection according to a municipality statement is that they “couldn’t find private donors to cover the high cost of insurance and shipping for the sculpture – a total of NIS 550,000.”
Opposition leader, and hopefully next mayor of Jerusalem, Nir Barkat said “that he could have predicted the “discriminatory” municipal decision to veto the placement of the sculpture in a nonreligious section of Jerusalem.”
“From my year-and-a-half acquaintanceship with the decision-making process of Mayor [Uri] Lupolianski I am not surprised, since he does not act as the mayor of all the people of Jerusalem,” Barkat said, bemoaning what he called “a blow to the pluralism of Jerusalem.”
Pluralism in Jerusalem my ass. Just last week Mayor Lupolianski was fined by the Jerusalem District Court for illegally allocating two public buildings to private haredi schools.
Harry,
you have a short memory:
http://imra.org.il/story.php3?id=23315
JERUSALEM MUNCIPALITY DISTRIBUTING CHRISTMAS TREES
…
The mayor of Jerusalem, Uri Lupolinaksi, wishes a Merry Christmas to the Christian residents of Jerusalem and a year of peace, tolerance and brotherhood.
The Jerusalem municipality has been giving out Christmas trees in every administration. This isn’t something new that Lupolianski initiated. Lupolianski favors the ultra-orthodox. Period. His mayorship has been an absolute disaster.
Sorry, the above comment was left by me.
If Mayor Lupolianski was so anti-pluralistic, then he would have stopped giving out Xmas trees to ‘star/idol worshippers’. But he didn’t.
A blurb I read somewhere related about a meeting Mayor Lupolianski had with some local ‘secular’ representatives. They came to complain about Jerusalem becoming more ‘ultra-orthodox. Mayor Lupolianski replied that he’d be happy to encourage the secular popluation to increase their birthrates to compete..
When do the seculars say, if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em’?
Sorry Josh, your point has no merit. The problem is not that Jerusalem is becoming more ultra-orthodox, but rather that the mayor is favoring the ultra-orthodox population. The secular and national religious residents of Jerusalem actually the pay taxes in the city and the ultra-orthodox (who overwhelmingly do not pay taxes) benefit. Do you live in Jerusalem?
No merit? okay.
Mayors represent all their residents, but usually (and you’d hope so if you believe in democracy) a mayor will favour his/her electorate that got him into office. Mayors, above all the world over, love voters. Afterwards, they love taxpayers.
I live a bit north of Jm.
so whats wrong with showing a little skin??
i mean hardened clay or wht ever they use
Ok, this has nothing to do with Rodin, but I just need to vent about crazy orthodox people in general and I don’t know where else to do it. I am a Jew,and you know what, the more torah I learn the better I feel. However, the more Orthodox Jews I meet, the worse I feel. There, I said it. I never felt worse about being a Jew in my whole life and this Rodin stuff doesn’t help either.
I used to feel the same way. But like you said, as time goes by and you learn more for yourself, the frustration disperses like 2nd hand smoke. One thing that helped me was also a intro to sociology course in university where you learn essentially not to judge people by your own morals/values/mores/etc…
Ruth, I am right there with you.
Ruth:
What is it about Orthodox Jews you have a problem with? Which Orthodox Jews have you met? How many?
If we were to create a category called “non-Orthodox Jews”, so that any wrongdoing by any member of that group became attributable to the group, how would the people in that category compare to the Orthodox?
I am willing to admit, I went overboard when I used the term crazy orthodox jews. I should not have lumped them all toghther. Every group of people have bad apples. I am not sure why bad orthodox apples bother me so much more then other bad non orthodox apples. Maybe it’s the hypocrisy. Maybe I expect Orthodox people to have a higher standerd. Maybe it’s because I am becoming more relgious, and I am entering in a a new community, and I don’t nec. like that community, or feel comfortable in it. Or maybe it’s the sleezy lubav who expected to have sex with me becuase my collor bone was showing.
I myself, am leaning toward orthodoxy. I daven with the orthodox so I’d say I know quite a few. I get what your saying, and I can see how my commits are arrogant and naive, but what can I say, I have yet to meet one open minded left wing orthodox jew.
No that you have to be left wing, but at least open minded would be nice
Ruth:
I’m still not getting exactly what the problem is.
You say “Maybe it’s the hypocrisy. Maybe I expect Orthodox people to have a higher standerd.”
You’re going to have to accept that the higher the level of behavior a community demands, the more hypocrisy will be generated. But then, hypocrisy is not the worst crime, is it?
You should expect the Orthodox to have a higher standard, but people being what they are, don’t expect it to be much higher. Given human nature, even slightly higher is a triumph.
“I don’t nec. like that community, or feel comfortable in it. ”
Sounds like a style issue, not a moral issue. Of course, you may feel more comfortable as time passes.
“Or maybe it’s the sleezy lubav who expected to have sex with me becuase my collor bone was showing.”
It happens. But the non-Orthodox and non-Jewish populations aren’t so hot in this area, either.
What do you mean by open-minded? You must be aware by now that Orthodoxy has certain specific beliefs on a number of topics. You can’t expect an Orthodox person to be iffy about or contrary to those beliefs (although it does happen).
If by open-minded you mean people who seek out, listen to and understand those whose beliefs they oppose, on this site alone you can read the comments open-minded Orthodox lefties (as well as righties and centrists).
Well, I hope your right J, and you make excellent points. There are certainly a core set of beliefs in orthodoxy. Maybe I am borthered by some of those beliefs. But really I think I am more disturbed by all the rules. ( I feel like you and me are in some sort of thearpy session). So I guess that’s really the answer.
So how do you suggest one become more observent, if they are not comfortable around Orthodox people?
“But really I think I am more disturbed by all the rules. ”
Well, Orthodoxy does have a lot of rules, no doubt about it. But first, be sure that the rules you are currently following or trying to follow are the core rules, not the obscure and less-than-mandatory ones that can be found in the Kitzur shulchan aruch, for example, and are not merely customs followed by only some Orthodox Jews. Second, even concerning the core rules, why not take it slow and ease in to observance? If, for example, not using electricity on Shabbat for the full 25 hours drives you crazy, why not start with just Friday night and see how it goes? It’s no benefit to anyone if you try to do too much too quickly and then quit.
Depends where you live. If you live in a place with a large Orthodox population, I’d be surprised if you couldn’t find a handful of people you like. If there are few Orthodox people around, it’ll be harder; you may end up considering relocating.
And give it time; as you become more knowledgeable and experienced, you’ll probably become more comfortable.
Thanks for all the advice dude. My lease ends in April and I guess I could move to a more Jewish neighborhood, but I’m just not ready for that. However, my neighborhood can barely get a minyan toghther and I am probebly the only one under forty/fifty/eighty besides the rabbi, who goes there. So I like ME at least.
I hope the burning toenails or flushing them down the toilet becuase a pregnant woman might miscarry if she steps on them is an obsecure less then mandatory rule. Cause i mean, I dont’ think I could live a life in which I had to do that or things like that. I would go crazy and be fearfull evertime I picked my toenail or something like that. I mean if I don’t, what’s up, is G-d gonna get on my back about it?
“I hope the burning toenails or flushing them down the toilet becuase a pregnant woman might miscarry if she steps on them is an obsecure less then mandatory rule. ”
This is what I was afraid of. Who told you about that rule? And even for those who concern themselves with it, it should be a “best efforts” thing, not a source of paranoia.
You really should find someone who can tell you what’s essential and what’s not.
No one told me that rule, I read it. I read it on askmoses.com, which was why the hell I got so fustrated to begin with. Also, reading about all this stuff about not attending the marriges of friends while there is mixed dancing, or a bat mitvah in a conservative shul. So what now? I have to cut off all my friends and family ( cause I can sure as hell tell you I won’t be able to go to another wedding ever if that’s the case) That’s bull. I mean how can that be healthy in the least? I’m suppose to admonish my friends for taking a subway on shabbos. What the hell !!!!!!!!!!!!! I can’t get down with that. I can’t get down with a community that does that. And this asking someone what is essential or not? Do you suggest I ask the rabbi in my neighborhood who admonishes girls for going away to college? “Good jewish girls should stay at home untill they get married” I guess I am really really BAD cause I decided to get an education. (I am not pissed at you. I am just ranting.)
“No one told me that rule, I read it. I read it on askmoses.com, which was why the hell I got so fustrated to begin with.”
Just goes to show that you can’t do everything on the Internet. There’s a lot more to Judaism than a few random facts on a website. I don’t know anything about askmoses.com, but you shouldn’t be making major life decisions like whether to become Orthodox on this basis.
“Also, reading about all this stuff about not attending the marriges of friends while there is mixed dancing, or a bat mitvah in a conservative shul. So what now? I have to cut off all my friends and family ( cause I can sure as hell tell you I won’t be able to go to another wedding ever if that’s the case) That’s bull.”
There are good reasons for the general aversion to going to a Conservative synagogue, but I suspect there are authorities that could make an exception in the case of family members. As for mixed dancing, why not seek out those factions of Orthodoxy that tolerate it?
“I’m suppose to admonish my friends for taking a subway on shabbos. What the hell !!!!!!!!!!!!! I can’t get down with that.”
So don’t. Setting a good example is more effective, anyway.
“Do you suggest I ask the rabbi in my neighborhood who admonishes girls for going away to college? ”
Um, no. Clearly this rabbi is too right wing for you. There are lots of other rabbis out there. Instead of being angry about the rabbis/authorities you don’t like, why not use the energy to find ones you will like?
Although the complaints you posted can be ameliorated, I’m sure there are things about Orthodoxy that will remain problematic for you. You’ll just have to accept that becoming Orthodox is not like getting into a new hobby – new hobbies can be added to your other activities without changing the basic framework of your life. Orthodoxy presents its own framework. If you choose to become observant, you’ll have to either change your mind about certain issues, or wrestle with those issues. It’s not easy, it’s not always fun, it may not always feel rewarding. But that’s not really the object of the game, is it?
“Just goes to show that you can’t do everything on the Internet.”
Most everything I know about Judaism does not come from a website. Last time I checked…I was Jewish. Yes, your right, I should not be making major life decisions based on some internet relgious site. But in the modern age one does have to take into account how a group of people decides to present themselves via electronic means, aish, askmoses, bangitout, OU and so forth. I am not saying these websites represent every single Orthodox Jew in the world, but they do add another level to the dec. making process.
I don’t really know what else to say anymore.
As for the mixed dancing orthodox Jews. I am not saying I feel the need to particpate in mixed dancing. If it’s against a rule, then it’s against a rule right? I am talking about the people who think I should not go to a wedding in which mixed dancing occurs. Those people, in my humble, humble op. are a little crazy, oh yeah, and they are Orthodox.
J, have a great Shabbos.