Israel, Politics, Religion

"Cursed Be He That Keepeth Back His Sword From Blood."

Rabbi-Avi-Ronzki_From yesterday’s Ha’artez:

The Israel Defense Forces’ chief rabbi told students in a pre-army yeshiva program last week that soldiers who “show mercy” toward the enemy in wartime will be “damned.”
Brig. Gen. Avichai Rontzki also told the yeshiva students that religious individuals made better combat troops. Speaking Thursday at the Hesder yeshiva in the West Bank settlement of Karnei Shomron, Rontzki referred to Maimonides’ discourse on the laws of war. That text quotes a passage from the Book of Jeremiah stating: “Cursed be he that doeth the work of the Lord with a slack hand, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.”
In Rontzki’s words, “In times of war, whoever doesn’t fight with all his heart and soul is damned – if he keeps his sword from bloodshed, if he shows mercy toward his enemy when no mercy should be shown.”

Whatever else we might think about Maimonides’ (or Jeremiah’s) words, we are certainly free to debate their academic meaning. But when they are uttered by the Chief Rabbi of the IDF to future Israeli soldiers, words such as these are much, much more than merely academic.
You may remember that Rabbi Rontzki (above) was in the news following Israel’s military operation in Gaza, when soldiers alleged that he gave them a religious booklet entitled “Go Fight My Fight.” This publication was written by Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, head of Ateret Cohanim yeshiva in Jerusalem, who wrote that Palestinians were the equivalent of the Biblical Philistines and that cruelty can sometimes be a “good attribute.”
You may also remember that Israeli soldiers from the organization Shovrim Shtika (“Breaking the Silence”) brought this issue to light following the war in Gaza. Though they have been attacked mercilessly by the Israeli political establishment, soldiers have continued to speak out. Last September, Gal Einav and Shamir Yeger, two reserve infantry soldiers who fought in Gaza wrote a powerful editorial in the Israeli press about what they considered to be an unwelcome “messianic” religious influence into the IDF:

There is a problem with the growing tendency to provide religious elements with a monopoly on values and fighting spirit, and particularly with the legitimacy granted to organizations with a missionary and messianic character to operate amongst the soldiers. Most of the commanders in our division are religious, yet up until the last war there was complete separation between their private world and their military position.
If we fail to clearly draw the line right now, in a few years we shall find ourselves shifting from wars of choice or no-choice to holy wars.

In a September BBC report, Reserve General Nehemia Dagan had this to say about the issue:

We (soldiers) used to be able to put aside our own ideas in order to do what we had to do. It didn’t matter if we were religious or from a kibbutz. But that’s not the case anymore.
The morals of the battlefield cannot come from a religious authority. Once it does, it’s Jihad. I know people will not like that word but that’s what it is, Holy War. And once it’s Holy War there are no limits.

(You can watch the BBC report in its entirety here and here.)
What explains the growth of this right-wing religious influence in the IDF? I tend to agree with blogger Zachary Goelman, who points out an larger demographic trend in Israeli society:

With conscription rates dropping annually, especially among secular Jews, and a simultaneous increase in the country’s religious population, Yeger and Einav are part of a shrinking minority. No doubt they know many who ducked their conscription call. If they have draft-age children, they’ve certainly heard them discuss the myriad ways of obtaining a deferral.
This trend is reversed in the dati-le’umi sector, the category of Israeli Jews broadly classified as “national religious.” In one way or another the men and women woven from this cloth see military and national service as a form of religious duty, and their ranks in uniform and civil society will increase in the coming decades. Coupled with the consistent growth of ultra-orthodox families, secular Israel may be in the final throes of its götterdämmerung.

Whatever the explanation, I personally find the implications of this trend to be beyond troubling. How will we, as Jews, respond to the potential growth of Jewish Holy War ideology within the ranks of the Israeli military? For that matter, how do we feel, as Americans, by the very notion of a “Chief Rabbi of the IDF?” Should we really be surprised that things are now coming to this – in a country where the civil authority lies in the hands of a traditional religious elite?
I do not ask these questions out of a desire to be inflammatory. I ask them only because I believe we need to discuss them honestly and openly – and because these kinds of painful questions have for too long been dismissed and marginalized by the “mainstream” Jewish establishment.
For myself at least – as a Jew and as a rabbi – I will take this opportunity to register my personal offense at statements such as those made last week by Rabbi Rontzki.

29 thoughts on “"Cursed Be He That Keepeth Back His Sword From Blood."

  1. It should also be noted that the same Rontzki, several years prior to bis appointment, ruled that an IDF medic should refrain from treating gentiles on the sabbath. (PDF link, Hebrew).

  2. Before we get into this conversation, I think it’s important to preface it with the following: this is all second hand. Haaretz reporters, generally speaking and in my experience, write poorly on religious matters, and routinely sensationalize, decontextualize and reframe statements made by religious authorities to achieve the highest sensational effect. The impression I have is that many Haaretz reporters have little to no understanding of religious perspectives, and view statements by religious leaders through the prism of their fears.
    For all we know, the Rabbi’s remarks were in response to a question by a student of what Rambam meant by this statement, and not pertaining to contemporary conduct by the IDF. In the time I’ve spent in Yeshiva, it would be a child’s game to pick out completely innocent quotes made by a Rabbi in the context of lecture or Q&A and make them into a tempest.
    The context is impossible to tell from the way the story is put together, and it fits a certain template of how such things are reported in the secular Israeli press. To be condemning people on the basis of two or three choice quoted words in a Haaretz article is not warranted.
    For myself at least – as a Jew and as a rabbi – I will take this opportunity to register my personal offense at statements such as those made last week by Rabbi Rontzki.
    How can you do such a thing, when you haven’t investigated the facts? This is how judgement is made in a Jewish court, Rabbi?
    For that matter, how do we feel, as Americans, by the very notion of a “Chief Rabbi of the IDF?”
    The US Army (and other Western armies) have similar positions. In the US, there is a Chaplaincy Corps. The current Chief of Chaplains is Major General Douglas Carver.
    a country where the civil authority lies in the hands of a traditional religious elite?
    Is this true? Are Netanyahu, or Barak, or Livni, or Olmert, or Sharon “traditional religious”? Maybe they are, I’m just asking. There are religious political parties, religious Jews (and Muslims) hold civil office, and certain institutions – marriage/divorce, conversion – are largely controlled by the Israeli Chief Rabbinate. I’m not sure all this warrants your broad, alarmist language. Indeed, many religious Israeli complain that civil authority in Israel lies in the hands of a secular elite.
    Whatever else we might think about Maimonides’ (or Jeremiah’s) words, we are certainly free to debate their academic meaning. But when they are uttered by the Chief Rabbi of the IDF to future Israeli soldiers, words such as these are much, much more than merely academic.
    Assuming this is even what the Rabbi was talking about, what you are saying, in itself, is not the issue. Rambam was not engaged in an “academic” exercise, either, but giving his opinion on taking a practical course of action in the real world. Jewish soldiers, in a Jewish army, are fighting wars for the first time in 2000 years. The issue is whether the halacha follows Rambam (it often doesn’t), or even whether there is a halacha on this issue.
    Again, how can you, Shalom Rav, a Rabbi, be addressing such serious issues so cavalierly?
    I share concern that the IDF retain the highest ethical standards, which I believe are synonymous with the Jewish laws of war, to the extent they exist. However, what you’ve written is simply not part of that conversation. It appears to be scaremongering, at best. For one thing, get your facts straight. Imagine if you’re wrong. Would you publicly condemn someone on the basis of hearsay?
    Pick up the phone and call the office of the chief Rabbi of the IDF and clarify his remarks as they were interpreted by Haaretz. Then, facts in hand, write something thoughtful.
    Second, if you find out that Haaretz did not misquote the Rabbi, address his remarks. You didn’t actually do that here. What’s the halacha? If it’s not the halacha, then challenge him! And if it is the halacha, and you, a Rabbi, are saying that Jewish soldiers in a time of war should not be adhering to Jewish laws of war, then explain why. I realize all this requires more work than reposting the bulk of a Haaretz piece and issuing some alarmist remarks, but it would make for better blogging, a better discussion, and a more educated readership.
    There needs to be more consideration and reflection given to writing such articles, where condemnations, accusations and insinuations are handed out so carelessly. Please.

    1. Haaretz reporters, generally speaking and in my experience, write poorly on religious matters, and routinely sensationalize, decontextualize and reframe statements made by religious authorities to achieve the highest sensational effect.

      Avigdor, for all your concerns over my “cavalier” observations, this is a wholly subjective statement. Is your claim any more compelling because it is based upon “your experience?” Given that Rabbi Ronstzki had previously distributed religious pamphlets with very similar ideas to the ones he allegedly made last week, I would say that the Ha’aretz report sounds eminently reasonable (your “experience” notwithstanding.)

      The US Army (and other Western armies) have similar positions. In the US, there is a Chaplaincy Corps. The current Chief of Chaplains is Major General Douglas Carver.

      The US Chaplaincy Corps is not the same thing as the IDF Chief Rabbinate. US military chaplains come in many faiths and they serve the personal religious/pastoral needs of our soldiers. They do not and should not hold forth on the religious laws of warfare.

      “a country where the civil authority lies in the hands of a traditional religious elite?”
      Is this true? Are Netanyahu, or Barak, or Livni, or Olmert, or Sharon “traditional religious”? Maybe they are, I’m just asking. There are religious political parties, religious Jews (and Muslims) hold civil office, and certain institutions – marriage/divorce, conversion – are largely controlled by the Israeli Chief Rabbinate. I’m not sure all this warrants your broad, alarmist language. Indeed, many religious Israeli complain that civil authority in Israel lies in the hands of a secular elite.

      By “civil authority” I was referring to the jurisdiction over issues of personal status, which has been always been controlled by Israel’s religious authority – another area in Israel where what we would call “separation of church and state” is blurred.

      “Whatever else we might think about Maimonides’ (or Jeremiah’s) words, we are certainly free to debate their academic meaning. But when they are uttered by the Chief Rabbi of the IDF to future Israeli soldiers, words such as these are much, much more than merely academic.”
      Assuming this is even what the Rabbi was talking about, what you are saying, in itself, is not the issue. Rambam was not engaged in an “academic” exercise, either, but giving his opinion on taking a practical course of action in the real world. Jewish soldiers, in a Jewish army, are fighting wars for the first time in 2000 years. The issue is whether the halacha follows Rambam (it often doesn’t), or even whether there is a halacha on this issue.

      Rambam’s rulings on warfare were academic because when he ruled, no Jewish army existed. They had no practical implications outside the yeshiva. It is one thing to continue to debate the academic meaning of his words – and quite another to apply them to an actual Jewish army going to battle on behalf of an actual Jewish state. At the very least, I think most Jews today would agree that mixing religion and warfare is a fairly perilous enterprise.

      I share concern that the IDF retain the highest ethical standards, which I believe are synonymous with the Jewish laws of war, to the extent they exist. However, what you’ve written is simply not part of that conversation. It appears to be scaremongering, at best. For one thing, get your facts straight. Imagine if you’re wrong. Would you publicly condemn someone on the basis of hearsay?

      It is not hearsay to claim that Rabbi Rontzski distributed Rabbi Aviner’s pamphlet, which contained religious rulings that compared Palestinians to Philistines. It is not alarmist and it is not cavalier to give credence to Israeli soldiers (including an ex-General) who are expressing concern over an increasingly intolerant religious influence in the IDF. Casting aspersions on my writing will not change this – in fact you only serve to validate my final point: that these kinds of questions are routinely dismissed and marginalized by people such as yourself.

  3. Avigdor,
    I see where you’re coming from about the context of the statement but given the trends in National Zionist rhetoric, including a very loud and sometimes armed and willing settler movement, I don’t believe it’s such a stretch to trust Haaretz on this one.
    “and certain institutions – marriage/divorce, conversion – are largely controlled by the Israeli Chief Rabbinate.”
    No they are COMPLETELY controlled by the Israeli Rabbinate (for Jews that is).

  4. Avigdor, Gen. Ronzki himself tried to say that those were his remarks. Then haaretz released a recording of his actual words, and it was obvious he was not giving an academic lecture on hilchot melachim.
    The man is evil. seriously.

  5. Oh yes, and the halacha – as understood by the majority of poskim throughout the ages – is that Jews should not subordinate the nations of the world, and they should wait for the messiah to come and save them.

  6. Dismissed? Marginalized? A sole comment left on an article you wrote at the premier progressive Jewish blog on the internet has marginalized and dismissed you? You’re not a victim. You wrote a shoddy article, playing to an alarmist template while making accusations based on hearsay. This is irresponsible at best. All I asked was for you to raise the quality of your writing. Do some basic fact checking before casting aspersions. Would that really be so difficult? Bring some context and analysis worthy of someone with your title.
    There’s no point arguing about this. This could have been an important, thought provoking article that educated your readers. How about explaining who the Philistines were, and why there is no foundation to compare the Palestinians to them, or to Amalekites for that matter. Instead, all we have are some cheap shots to feed the bobbleheads, as if polarizing people even more is going to help the situation. I hope in the future you write with better care and more thoughtfulness. Challenge yourself. That’s all.

  7. Avigdor,
    Please don’t turn this around on ShR and make it his responsibility to fact check the free Israeli press so that he can “facts in hand, write something thoughtful”. See the last two paragraphs of the post. Reads like thoughtful to me…
    Your argument sounds a lot like conservative political voices in the US who claim that because a story ran in the NYT it is automatically biased and untrue – or at least should be verified by some other source (it works with liberal voices towards Fox i suppose too).
    Why do you want to divert attention away from Rontzkis dangerous speech. DO you agree with him that mercy is rewarded by damnation? Careful, don’t take me out of context now.
    Absurd.

  8. Rabbi,
    while you may have possibly had somewhat of good intentions when writing up this article, look what you have caused. you have brought about more sina’h and are therefore preventing the rebuilding of the bais hamikdash. this is the REAL problem today. we as a nation have so many religious leaders (i.e. “rabbis”) who are supposed to be role models for everybody else yet dont follow the halachos themselves. speaking loshon horah about another jew is a much greater than most can comprehend. look right below the space to write a reply there is a whole paragraph about loshon horah. there is enough antisemitism in the world already the last thing we need is more; and especially from within. the truth of the matter is that while it may sound harsh and extreme, that IS part of our religion. the when actually at war we as a WHOLE NATION are supposed to fight a sincere war and not slack off this is true. to say it is not is to call jermiah a false prophet. which quite frankly is on par whith blasphemy and uproots some of the most basic tenets of judaism. we have to accept the whole torah not pick and choose.
    and to all of those who raised the point that we should not be fighting “religious wars” who are so utterly mistaken. the modern “state of israel” was not founded because we were some nomadic people looking for a home and stumbled into a nice little piece of land. we are in israel because we are JEWS. that is why we are there and that is why we fight for it every single day. that is why the muslims have declared jihad. the religion and the wars are NOT separate entities. GOD is the one who gave us this land. it was no coincidence that we ended up there. when a general who teaches war strategy at west point was asked by a jewish private why the class never discussed Israeli strategies the non-jewish general from the midwest replied that the only way these wars were won was with the direct hand of god. no logic could have explained them otherwise.
    in addition to every other army have a head chaplain, the israeli army as i have just stated is one that was founded through religion whether it is accepted today or not. hence, why the rabbi stated that the religious soldiers are generally the better soldiers. they see the real reasons why they are fighting while many others are just there for “self defense” and dont believe in a greater picture. many feel forced which is why so many now avoid the army. i can tell yoiu that as a religous jew who was born in america, i am going to VOLUNTEER to fight in the war of OUR nation and religion. this is the point, we have an obligation, a RELIGIOUS obligation, to do everything in our power to defend our brothers. understand that i am extremely greatful for being an american citizen and the freedoms i have been granted, but by sitting here in america and causing more hatred, there is no good that can be accomplished. showing mercy in wartime after trying for decades to appease a nation which wants nothing but to see all of US dead will not help our situation. i think we all need to take a step back and reconsider not only what we are doing with ourselves but why we are here in the first place and what we are supposed to be accomplishing in this world as well as looking toward the next. i hope that we can all come to an understanding and learn to at a minimum, tolerate eachother as opposed to breeding more hatred when the rest of the world is doing quite a good job at that already. may we all be honored with the opportunity to see the coming of moshiach and the rebuilding of the bais hamikdash TOGETHER in OUR land.

  9. rabbi i would also like to address two different statements you made about the “public views and opinion”
    firstly, you stated :
    By “civil authority” I was referring to the jurisdiction over issues of personal status, which has been always been controlled by Israel’s religious authority – another area in Israel where what we would call “separation of church and state” is blurred
    to stress my point, israel is a land that was given to the JEWS by GOD Himself and no one else. therefore, that is the foundation the state stands upon. to say that this “state” should be separate from its “church” is to say that we should take out both of its legs. we are a nation of GOD, THE CHOSEN PEOPLE. we need not model ourselves after other modern governments of today or prove ourselves to anyone. we need only to adhere to the word of GOD.
    secondly,
    you stated:
    Rambam’s rulings on warfare were academic because when he ruled, no Jewish army existed. They had no practical implications outside the yeshiva. It is one thing to continue to debate the academic meaning of his words – and quite another to apply them to an actual Jewish army going to battle on behalf of an actual Jewish state. At the very least, I think most Jews today would agree that mixing religion and warfare is a fairly perilous enterprise.
    no offense to any of the jews today but the “general feelings” of “most jews” has no bearing on anything. nearly 47% of jews today are intermarrying. they are foregoing all religious committments and giving the cold shoulder. for most their children will not be jewish and will de facto be children of the countries they are born in and no longer jews. these people do not hold any water in the arguements of how the jewish nation should conduct itself. and even if they were all religious and “keeping the faith”, to go back and say that a rishon’s words were just for academic/rhetoric purposes leaves us standing here blindly as it is the rishonim who explained the torah as we know it. they are the ones who codified and recorded what everyone else was forgetting. to say that means that there should be no rabbis, no religious leaders, no tradition and surrender it all. he did not mean this as pure topic of discussion, the Rambam codified Jewish law. there is however room to say that we do not hold like him and rather we hold of a different posaik, but not that his words have no meaning or validity. and to say that most jews today, who are unfortunately secular and/or divorced from the religion, disagree is the point that has no validity.
    i hope that in the future the concern for understanding one another as well as respect for the word of God can be put on higher regard than the general opinion of today, for that will be different tomorrow and the day after that. we will not please any of the nations no matter how far backwards we bend. so we may as well focus on our true purpose, to be pleasing to the Almighty
    chaim

  10. Chaim,
    I admire your passion and your commitment to Judaism and the Jewish People. Please understand however that there are many ways to be Jewish and yours is just one version. To say that our community leaders who “dont follow the halachos themselves” are the problem is narishkeit (sp?). Is Bibi shomer mitzvot – I highly doubt it.
    If there is anyone who is breeding the kind of sin’a that you are talking about it is R. Rontzki. I mean what else can you call it? He’s talking to a bunch of young Religious boys who predominately go into the elite fighting units in the army and telling them to show no mercy.
    I don’t know if you ever saw the Karate Kid or not but this is what the sense` of Cobra Kai dojo does with his students too. They lose the tournament in the end btw…

  11. Chaim writes: “no offense to any of the jews today but the “general feelings” of “most jews” has no bearing on anything.”
    It actually matters a lot. In fact the gemara uses this as a method to determine the law in some cases where it instructs the Rabbis to go to the market to see what people are doing. Am i giving apporpriate reverence to our tradition?

  12. Chiam and Avigdor:
    This lashon ha-ra concept is applied cynically in both your cases, giving sweeping benefit of the doubt to Jews but (from what I’ve seen of Avigdor’s comments especially) rarely ever non-Jews or Arabs.
    I think ShalomRav, myself and others are more guided by this precept of Jewish ethics:

    Whoever is able to protest against the transgressions of his own family and does not do so is held responsible for the sins of his family. Whoever is able to protest against the transgressions of the people of his community and does not do so is held responsible for the sins of his community. Whoever is able to protest against the transgressions of the entire world and does not do so is held responsible for the sins of the entire world. (Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 54b)

    Most militaries have head chaplains, but just as in the American military when chaplains begin preaching politics and begin prostelytizing, they are deposed from their post. The role of military chaplains is to minister the needs of their adherants. As soon as secular Israeli units are required to attend lectures on reclaiming Gaza by orthodox rabbis, then we have crossed two or three lines.
    As reported by this Israeli soldier:

    Another point that came up was when that rabbi said we are actually conducting the war of ‘the sons of light’ against ‘the sons of darkness.’ This is in fact a statement with highly messianic language. This is war that prepares the way for final redemption. This is outrageous in itself. Again, we witness a language that is not acceptable to all present, definitely a legitimate view and as such I have no problem with it. But it must not receive any kind of official stamp, it must not be used within any military framework. It is just like a political view. But the more disturbing point even, than this theological point, is its demonization of the other side. It turns the other side as a generality into ‘sons of darkness’ while we become ‘sons of light.’ There is no differentiation which we would expect to find between civilians and others. Namely, here is one people fighting another people, with all the messianic implications. But that’s the point: this is also religious propaganda. In other words, the army is not a revival meeting. This is not the reason people enlist. They do not put on a uniform in order to be Judaized and be reborn in the faith.

    1. Another point that came up was when that rabbi said we are actually conducting the war of ‘the sons of light’ against ‘the sons of darkness.’ This is in fact a statement with highly messianic language. This is war that prepares the way for final redemption. This is outrageous in itself.
      Not to mention that IDF rabbis are now apparently positioning themselves as heirs to the Dead Sea sect

  13. @uzi- not just in that part of the gemara, but all over the place “amrei inshei…” is used as a powerful source of halakhah, “People say…”

  14. In reference to some comment someone made about the role of the Rabbanut vs. the role of chaplains in America.
    As far as I understand (and I’m in the IDF), the Rabbanut is the equivalent of a chaplaincy- and there are Christian, Muslim and Druze chaplains under the “Rabbanut Tzvait.” (Others who’ve served and might know, correct me if I’m wrong.)
    Of course, I’m a Conservative Jew, and I can’t say the Rabbanut’s understanding of halacha really jives with mine, so I’m not going to address whether I think he and the other rabbeim are good chaplains for all Jews (you can guess that on your own). But I do think the Rabbanut includes chaplains for non-Jews.

  15. As far as I understand (and I’m in the IDF), the Rabbanut is the equivalent of a chaplaincy- and there are Christian, Muslim and Druze chaplains under the “Rabbanut Tzvait.” (Others who’ve served and might know, correct me if I’m wrong.)
    You are correct, but the concern is the tenor of thought by many national-religious rabbis, and what that means for the future of Tzahal as a “people’ army,” and not an army behodlen to certain rabbis.
    The jpost actually ran an article on this issue today:
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1258027307033&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

  16. and there are Christian, Muslim and Druze chaplains under the “Rabbanut Tzvait.”
    There is no such thing. If you want a clergyperson from your own religion, you’ll get access to one (most gentiles in the Israeli army don’t ask), but they’re not on the army’s payroll, and not in uniform. And there is not a single military church or mosque, not even in units made up completely of muslims (such as the Bedouin regiment).

  17. BZ – the term is used by many religious Israelis, and most don’t have an inkling where it comes from, and who exactly the sons of darkness are.

  18. the future of Tzahal as a “people’ army,” and not an army behodlen to certain rabbis.
    Yeah, right, like the majority of the “people” want us in Hebron.

  19. Wow, just wow. I’m not sure if I’m more frightened and nauseated by Rontzki, or his defenders in the comment thread.

  20. Jonathan, I do, and I was pointing out the fallacy of your position. It is not just “certain rabbis” who have a stranglehold on the Israeli military: it is the military itself which does not want to end the occupation, for a myriad of reasons, and sees itself as being above the government. It is the government which does not want to run the risk of angering the military. The IDF is not a “people’s army”, nor has it ever been.

  21. Amit, I don’t know if I would go that far to say that the military doesn’t want to end the occupation. It’s complicated of course because the political leadership are all former generals and defense ministers. But remember that most Israeli soldiers actually think they’re defending their country. They’re compartmentalized and given orders from above. So I say don’t confuse the political leadership from the commanders from the troops.

  22. It’s almost impossible to take this discussion in this direction, KFJ, because none of us (presumably) knows for sure the inner thoughts of the IDF general staff or, really, the dynamic between the IDF general staff and the cabinet.
    Amit is not alone in such theories, though. There certainly was a lot of this talk after the Rabin assasination:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZrQlYHkNqI
    the political leadership are all former generals and defense ministers
    Too many, but not all. Netanyahu and Olmert weren’t (was Olmert even in the army?)
    Still, Rabin, Barak, and even Mitzna made it pretty far–and they all came to the conlusion that the occupation has to end.

  23. Olmert was on the staff of BaMachaneh, the army’s trade magazine (sent to units, pensioners, etc.) So unlike many of Israel’s leaders, he was not a combat soldier, but certainly was in the army. Bibi, on the other hand, was a commando.
    Amit- you say that the majority of Israelis don’t want Hebron, and you may well be right. If that’s the case, perhaps there needs to be a new form of government where the majority will of the people is reflected by the majority will of the Knesset.

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