26 thoughts on “Don't Get Too Comfortable

  1. If nothing else, I’m wondering which passage of the Talmud states that we can have sex with 3 year olds….anybody?

  2. the Talmud does discuss the possibility of someone having sex w a child, and if the child was under 3, she is legally still a virgin.
    It doesn’t say you CAN, but it doesn’t say you CAN’T either– there’s no concept of child abuse/ age of consent/ rape or statutory rape.
    It’s pretty icky that the Talmud only sees it in terms of virginity.
    But to be fair, that’s the way the whole world saw things back then, not just the Talmud.

  3. like it or not, the talmud is full of horrible rules and regs, including that one, which I brought up with Rabbi Shmuel Bloom, who when he started to justify taking Claims Conference money said to me the Talmud says: and my response was :The Talmud says you can rape a 3 year old but then you have to marry her. Where I come from, you rape a 3 year old, you get a bullet between the eyes end of story.
    So here is my question:
    Why is a raped 3 year old mentioned in the Talmud in the first place with an “it’s sort of ok to do that and get away with it if you marry her?” and why is my grandson learning about it in MTA?
    I asked him why no one in his class asked the rebbe why this is being taught to 15 year olds, and why no one in the class has the beitzim to tell the teacher that it is disgusting and doesn’t belong in the Talmud and that furthermore they have no business teaching it to 15 year old boys.
    We Jews, have also been doing medical experiments on the elderly in Israel without their permission,
    Aren’t we wonderful, ethical and moral beings?

  4. The text about the three-year-old is in Tractate Kiddushin (don’t remember which page but it’s early on) and I studied the passage in rabbinical school. It was the only passage all semester that stopped the class completely dead (given that there’s a lot of dfsturbing stuff in Kiddushin, that’s saying a lot). We spent the rest of the session discussing ethics, and how we could understand why the rabbis were telling us about sex with a three year old as if the only issue was her hymen. We did not come up with any good answers, though some people made the same points that Rebecca made in her post. (Though I want to menton that the rabbis _do_ have a concept of rape, though it only seems to come into play for married women. It’s similar in the Bible , which makes a distinction between forced and consensual adultery, for example.) I am utterly nonplussed by this text.

  5. What’s not to get comfortable about? I am deeply concerned about the rise of antisemitic crimes across the globe, but these people are a joke. 75 Neo-Nazis’ showed up that day, compared to the 800 people that came to celebrate diversity and fight racism. While these groups should be monitored for potential hate-crime activity, their hopes of White America is as untenable as it is absurd.

  6. I’m able to access it, but I don’t know if you’d want to–it’s the site of the National Socialist Movement, a Nazi group (the same one that started riots in Toledo last Fall).

  7. From my understanding the tractate in question was about whether or not the child was left a virgin. There were different laws relating to a virgin and what she was entitled to monetarily when she married and who she could marry etc. I think a rape of anyone would be considered an assault, and punished in accordance with a bodily assault. But I’m not a Rabbi..
    And that video is very scary.

  8. I assume this video was produced by the group that put on the rally and then somebody in Israel added the titles, right?
    Note how the camera is placed low to make the speakers look mighty. And how they put what appears to be all their followers behind the podium so they’d be caught on camera and make it look like a huge rally. Note also that the camera never shows the “audience” in front of the podium–presumably because there wasn’t any.
    That’s some clever nazi camerawork. But it ain’t Leni Riefenstahl.

  9. I always thought it would be fun to have a large platoon of off-duty Israeli paratroopers hang out at one of these events.
    It never gets old to me, the ridiculous contradiction: We’re weak, snivelling idiots, but we also control the world.
    Finally, to paraphrase Jesse Custer in the comic book Preacher:
    “Why are the strongest believers in the white race always the worst examples of it?”

  10. i know more people who went there to counter-protest than they had on their stage. But watch out Hillary, it looks like you may have a serious compititor in ’08…

  11. “But watch out Hillary, it looks like you may have a serious compititor in ‘08… ”
    Not to worry, Dave. Even if one of these guys beats Hillary in the primaries (the Leftist base might go for the anti-Israel venom), McCain or Giuliani will save the day.

  12. J, I know you think you’re being funny. But I have to say–implying on a Jewish website that the left would support neo-Nazis is just fucking offensive.

  13. As much as I love Jewschool, I’m continually frustrated by the fact that those of us who weren’t fortunate enough to go to Hebrew School are left out of the loop. C’mon. Give us some translations. I’m learning, but I ain’t there yet.

  14. //I’ve translated the Hebrew text of the film for those who do not understand it. The translation is literal and I have not adapted or altered the text.//
    The film that will now be shown was filmed two days before the eve of Holocaust Remembrance Day in the town of Lansing in the state of Michgan, USA.
    In the USA there is a radical movement called NSM – National Socialist Movement.
    The movement’s headquarters are situated in the state of Minnesota – Minneapolis and numbers roughly 180 activists.
    Via the internet – there are many hundreds more who take part in these parades across the USA.
    The movement functions by exploiting freedom of speech in a democratic nation and organises legal protests in full coordination with the police.
    The movement was established in the year 1974 under the deep influence of the leader of Nazi Germany Adolf Hitler
    and sees itself as the continuer of his way and belief.
    The movement has Nazi uniforms and symbols and a chain of command that imitates the 3rd Reich.
    The leader of the movement is a young man by the name of Jeff Schoep.
    The movement has a website that emphasizes the subject by the name of http://www.nsm888.com
    8 = H
    88 – Heil Hitler
    [after the clip…. The Hebrew translation is accurate, however does not attempt to convey the speakers’ “linguistic limitations”…]
    This film was edited and translated by SHELLY_OR
    Please involve others in this sensitive issue.

  15. Mister Goat:
    Funny or not, you seem to have ignored what I was responding to. See comment 14, where dave implied that Republicans put up neo-Nazi candidates (as a joke). If it’s OK to suggest that the more pro-Israel party has neo-Nazi candidates, why can’t I return the compliment about the more anti-Israel party with its left-wing activist base, which sometimes does in fact spew anti-Semitism like the neo-Nazis do?

  16. J and Mr. Goat,
    I think J was merely pointing out that there are anti-semitic extremes in both parties. I think that is a valid point.
    I have never found it helpful to fight over who has the most extremes. What I do think is important is to compare the thoughtful moderates in both parties.
    Unfortunately, J, I don’t think the Republicans have promoted such leadership generally in the last couple of elections. But I’ll certainly admit that I personally (and I only speak for me, here) would find a Giuliani candidacy a most compelling option. Quite frankly, I do not believe McCain is of the same caliber. I am surprised you appear to equate the two. Even many Giuliani haters concede he is brighter and more talented than McCain, and fear his talents. I want someone capable of calculated strategy, not from the gut policy. McCain has been prone to the latter, and is anyway– by the time of the next administration–well past the age I would be comfortable with for a first term president, or after Reagan, even a second term president. That entire 2nd term was an Alzheimer’s awareness campaign.

  17. hi
    i was in the israeli army as a volenteer with 24 other americans for 3 years stationed in the golan
    i saw the video and i am disgusted…how people could reverse back into the old ideology shocks me
    i spoke to some of the guys who i went to the army with and we agreed to go to thier next rally and stand thier proud with our kippot on our heads and our israeli flags!
    does anybody know how i can find out when and where thier next rally is?

  18. im an exisraeli army general
    i live now in america in the same area as 7 other ex israeli soldiers who i served eith
    can anybody tell us where there next rally is
    we would love to get together and turn up
    plz get back to me

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