Interviewing the Producer of "Feeling the Hate"
Nearly unknown just months ago, Joseph Dana and Mairav Zonszein have become crack activists in the field of digital anti-occupation work. Their videos have received hundreds of thousands of views, press coverage on every major Israel blog, and considerable adoration and hate mail. Wielding digital camcorders and a willingness to jump into the digital advocacy maelstrom, they weekly broadcast the ugly faces of Israel’s religious right. And what ugly faces they are (see video below).
Though not limiting themselves to the kind of sensationalism that garnered so much attention for their first collaboration with Max Blumenthal “Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem,” they seek to present commonplace opinions about settlements from Jerusalemites, recent American olim being moved to the settlements, and Tel Avivians on Obama.
Dana and Zonszein tirelessly bring us footage of the daily lives of Israeli left activists at work with Taayush and Combatants for Peace in the West Bank. Eschewing ideological statements and platforms, the organization concentrates on direct actions for which they get attacked attacked and arrested on camera several times. Their work is volumnous and increasing by the day, and we owe them a huge thanks for their work.
Jewschool interviews Dana below the fold.
What was it that led you to become an activist?
I never referred to myself as an activist as I feel like it is a bit of a dirty, dismissive word. Don’t get me wrong, Ta’ayush is engaged in a form of activism. As an Israeli-American concerned with the conflict and firmly against the occupation I was drawn to Ta’ayush because of the inclusion of voices and viewpoints. I feel that most of the organizations and groups on the ground are deeply mired in rigid ideological viewpoints. Ta’ayush, while clearly against the occupation, does not make solid claims on ideology or long term goals. Instead we focus on direct action week after week. Furthermore, as an Israeli Jew, I think that it is important to work with fellow Israelis that want to break down barriers between Palestinians and Israelis, as opposed to simply fueling anti-Israeli rhetoric like other anti-occupation groups tend to do.
Who are the people who do Taayush?
Ta’ayush is very diverse and always changing. The core group, which is about 10 or 15 people features all different backgrounds and ages. There are three professors from the Hebrew University including one of Shoah history. A handful of students like myself and working people that are engaged in various professions including interior design. And of course Ezra Nawi (www.supportezra.net) who is a plumber. Most of us fit the stereotype of the intellectual Ashkenazi Jew leftist except for Ezra who is of Iraqi descent. One of the reasons that I am so attracted to Ta’ayush is the fact that we are all upstanding citizens with real jobs or careers that want to engage with the occupation. You know, we are not a leftist groups like the International Solidarity Movement that professinally deal with ‘the struggle’ all over the world. We are normal Israelis that want to make over voices heard about our disagreement with the actions of our government.
How did you choose video for your exposes?
Ta’ayush is always taking video camera to the West Bank with us. They are our major weapon in the fight to expose the realities on the ground. I have never worked with video editing (as I am sure you can see from my first films) but it seems natural to try and tell a story about our experiences in the West Bank using video – especially since so many people, including Israelis – have no idea what it looks like. I have also recently begun using Twitter (@ibnezra) as a form of live updates from the ground and communication with the world what is happening in the non violent resistance to the occupation.
What’s the most surprising element of your activism so far?
The reaction to the “Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem” was definitely the most surprising element of the blogging and journalist side of what I have been doing. [The video was removed from YouTube for offensive content, primarily drunk and young American Jews in Jerusalem calling Obama the n-word.] You have to keep in mind that Max and I were sitting in my apartment after a long day of interviewing people (I was helping him translate along with my girlfriend) and the idea popped into my head that we should go out and ask people what they thought of Obama. The rest is history.
The reactions to my descriptions of Ta’ayush and our work have been incredibility positive. It is important for me to remind the world that there are Israelis that will work, in solidarity, with Palestinians against the settlement expansion and the continued occupation.
What’s the state of the Israeli left today?
Israel has moved far to the right over the past ten years as Israeli society has largely accepted the status quo of occupation and the lack of a Palestinian partner for peace. “Left-wing” governments’ consistent role in the settlement project since 1967 and the recent war in Gaza has exposed the weakness of traditional left parties like Labor and Meretz. As a result of these trends, I feel like the Israeli left has died. In its place, a new left has begun to take shape. A left that is interested in direct action against the occupation and is highly critical of the Israeli army and security establishment.
It should be noted that parties like Hadash and Meretz have intervened on our behalf over the recent months and we have held meetings about our work with some of their MKs.
Who’s your favorite or most respected bloggers?
Antony Loewenstein is doing great work both in terms of keeping an active blog but also writing about the “blogging revolution” in general. I like Magnes Zionist and I read Israeli bloggers like Eyal Niv, and Noam Sheizaf on a regular basis. And of course, Mondoweiss, which in my opinion is the best progressive Jewish blog on the internet.
If there was a two-state agreement tomorrow, what would you work on next?
There are so many internal issues to deal with in Israel that I feel like I would have no problem finding something to pour my energy into as a citizen. The divide between the religious and the secular, the issue of minority rights (i.e. discrimination felt at the institutional level that Israeli Arabs experience everyday), or the growing issue of migrant workers. Part of the problem with the occupation is that it puts a lot of these internal issues on the back burner and little gets done in the foundational questions of Israeli identity. We are in serious need of debate about the quality of our country and raison d’etre. These debates do not flourish because we are investing all of our resources and thought into the occupation and external threats. Perhaps it will always be this way. I am not sure.
they seek to present commonplace opinions
Would it not be more accurate to say something like: They seek to go out with a camera, and record what they find at certain times and places? Are the views they present really “commonplace” in Israel?
Israel has moved far to the right over the past ten years
Really? 56% of the seats in the current Kennesset are held by parties who officially advocate a Palestinian state in their respective platforms. “Palestinian state”–the two dreaded words Rabin didn’t dare use in the ’92 elections.
Speaking of Rabin, he insisted that “eternal united Jerusalem” would remain in Israeli hands forevever (like every Labor PM before him). Since Camp David, it’s hard to find one Labor politician who does not call for a Palestinian capitol in Jerusalem.
Sharon, Mr. Jordan-is-Palestine, the settlment’s godfather, removed every settlement from Gaza. According to all polls, his popularity was sky high when he founded Kadima, a party created to carryout the uprooting of many West Bank settlments [if not most of them].
Netanyahu, Mr. Never Palestinian state, now makes a speech calling for one. And, Benny Begin doesn’t even raise a voice of objection.
This is Israel veering far to the right?
accepted the status quo of occupation and the lack of a Palestinian partner for peace
Wow. It’s shocking that Israelis wouldn’t think there’s a partner out there, after the fabulous experience of 2000.
>>“Wielding digital camcorders and a willingness to jump into the digital advocacy maelstrom, they weekly broadcast the ugly faces of Israel’s religious right.”
Nice to know that everybody’s invited to the non-judgmental dialogue and inclusive bridge building…. unless you’re an ugly-faced member of Israel’s ugly religious right. In that case please take a hike: your type, [spit], aren’t wanted here.
>>“Eschewing ideological statements and platforms, the organization concentrates on direct actions…”
I just don’t get what that means. Both organizations feature statements of ideology, belief and mission. Are you saying they’re more interested in just “doing stuff, anything” than in thinking about what they’re doing? Are their actions unsupported by a well-considered set of beliefs? Is “direct action” (nice euphemism) based on an ideology or is it just a reflexive mania?
>>“Israel has moved far to the right over the past ten years as Israeli society has largely accepted the status quo of occupation and the lack of a Palestinian partner for peace….”
First off I have to basically echo Jonathan1 here: Israeli leftist parties have gone comatose because they’ve chosen to be non-adaptive to the reality unfolding around them.
To be hit for 9 years by mass-murders, bombings, and missile strikes and then proclaim that not one whit or iota of your ideology has changed and that you wouldn’t do anything differently, and that no, your ingenious plans for success don’t need any rethinking at all, and that your policy prescriptions are brilliant and are actually the “only choice”…. well all of that suggests a certain denseness. Some might even say…arrogance.
And if Israeli voters detect that and reject it the Leftist parties really have nobody to blame but themselves.
More generally you know how I read that paragraph? ‘Israeli voters have basically rejected our ideology. The leftist parties are incapable of getting them to buy into it anymore. We’re really pissed off about that. So having been defeated at the ballot box we’ve decided instead to execute “direct action” against the policies we dislike and the people who help enact them.’
First off how is that anything but anti-democratic? And if Dana’s group has decided to do these things then doesn’t it suggest that Israeli hardcore leftists have basically given up on the democratic system?
Because it’s pretty clear that the “new left” Dana believes is forming (at least if it’s centered around groups like his, which he believes it is) is too intense, too narrow and way too extreme to capture any significant number of votes in an election.
“Nice to know that everybody’s invited to the non-judgmental dialogue and inclusive bridge building…. unless you’re an ugly-faced member of Israel’s ugly religious right. In that case please take a hike: your type, [spit], aren’t wanted here.”
Now YOU show me a pro-peace religious figure who isn’t R’ Froman or R’ Ovadia Yosef circa 1994.
Go ahead.
B.BarNavi, you’re frankly just reinforcing the stereotype that leftists live in a bubble wherein they have no real interaction with or knowledge of their ideological opponents. Do you seriously think that “religious figures” aren’t “pro-peace”? Do you think they’re pro-war? Are you serious??? I’m sorry but it just sounds outlandish to hear someone say something like that.
And BTW how do you define “pro-peace”?
Do you have any interaction or relationships with religious Israelis or non-leftist Israelis? To be really blunt maybe it’s time for a little more.
Pro-peace: actually doing something to actively hasten Israel and Palestinians to the bargaining table and make the compromises everyone knows must be made.
Because you like the idea of peace doesn’t mean you’re pro-peace. Everyone likes the idea of peace, even the Kahanists and one-staters. For example, any support of Bibi at this time is not pro-peace. Bibi doesn’t want negotiations. That’s not pro-peace.
Bibi doesn’t want negotiations.
Is that what you want, KFJ? Negotiations? Or capitulations? Cause it seems like all Bibi is doing, all he has done since coming to power, is negotiate, on just about everything. Everything except Jerusalem, and THANK G-D FOR THAT!
You see, that’s what negotiations are about – interests, our interests and theirs. You seem to think that because the Palestinians are willing to go on killing Jews unless we give in to their demands, that it is our fault there is no peace. That’s not negotiation, it’s capitulation. Let’s be frank: you seem to desire the capitulation of the truly pro-peace position that Bibi represents – one that actually deals with and responds to the reality of Palestinian animosity, division and long history of adherence to political violence against Israel.
You’re not pro-peace, KFJ. What you propose has been tried, every which painstaking way, and it leads to war and death. Your way to supposedly achieve peace has resulted in the extermination of countless lives on all sides. Those were human lives the policies you supported extinguished and buried in the ground, all while you proclaimed your desire for “peace”.
Your good intentions mean nothing to the dead. Results speak for themselves. So what credibility do you have to speak of peace, KFJ, much less wave the mantle?
You’re not pro-peace, KFJ. What you propose has been tried, every which painstaking way, and it leads to war and death.
“My” way is the way that Israeli leaders have used to create safe borders and security alliances with Egypt and Jordan, who previously were the largest daily threats to Israel’s safety.
As if Israel can’t afford the concessions you oppose? Israel doesn’t need the West Bank, even for security purposes. The Israeli public doesn’t support keeping it either. So I don’t understand what you’re dragging your feet over.
Bibi is not interested in peace anytime soon or two states. He’s a hawk. His policies have always enjoyed warring, not discussing. Yet the majority of both sides know what the final status agreement will look like, including the division of the Jewish and Arab halves of Jerusalem. That model always polls 70% approval. But Bibi has assembled the fringe right-wing elements of the Israeli electorate into his coalition, and they’re not interested in anything resembling it.
With luck, anti-peace Bibi will either fall from power or jettison his furthest-right coalition partners in favor of parties who want to END the conflict, not drag it out another 60 years.
Israel doesn’t need the West Bank, even for security purposes.
It’s hard to argue that Israel will not self-destruct if it continues its hold on the West Bank (it seems too late already.)
But, there are no security risks in handing over that area, especially after some of this past decade’s experiences?
Jonathan1, can you detail how exactly Israel will “self-destruct”? I’m getting a bit tired of all the doom and gloom hysterics. If anyone should be panicking, it’s the Palis.
Yaacov Lozowick wrote something for Tisha b’Av you should read, before making such improbable statements.
Where have you been?
Other than the human rights disaster that’s occurried in the territories since 1967?
I just don’t think that Israel can survive ad infinum in an apartheid situation (in the West Bank.)
Nor will it resemble anything it’s founders dreamt of if we continue along this path: It won’t be an overwhelmingly Jewish society, that takes the best of Jewish values, liberal Western ideals, and socialism.
Other than the human rights disaster that’s occurried in the territories since 1967?
I just don’t think that Israel can survive ad infinum in an apartheid situation (in the West Bank.)
Nor will it resemble anything it’s founders dreamt of if we continue along this path: It won’t be an overwhelmingly Jewish society, that takes the best of Jewish values, liberal Western ideals, and socialism.
I read that article, btw:
It completely does not consider the rights of the millions of Arabs in the territories;
it notes that 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs–while failing to mention that number was 14% in 1967, before the immigration from the FSU of 1 million people;
and it pretends that all of those immigrants are Jewish by any standard, even though all studies indicate that 300,000 of the Russim aren’t Jews. If you don’t believe me, ask them.
I’ve been around, mostly just reading. Imagine the frustration! It far too easy to blow away time commenting. I have poor time management skills as it is.
Did you miss me?
I did.