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Jewish Students Attacked at Auschwitz

Boomerang…

“Auschwitz is a place where everyone who visits shows a certain degree of respect,” he says. “These people’s total disregard for the feelings of the people who come here, especially the Jews who come here to mourn, is horrible. But, I suppose some people don’t come to mourn; some people come for completely different reason, which we cannot completely comprehend.”

Bchol Dor V’Dor, Omdim Aleinu Lachaloteinu.

28 thoughts on “Jewish Students Attacked at Auschwitz

  1. and that sentence at the bottom – give me a fucking break. that is classic jewish paranoia.
    i was in poland and i hated those stupid israeli flags everywhere. our principal got pissed out that we werent singing the tikva out loud but whispering it softly.
    the poland trips run by the educational system (i dont know about other ones, i heard hanoar haoved had good trips) are ruined by the cynism and exploitation of a horrible human tradegy in narrow political terms. it is a disgrace if u ask me.

  2. I am sorry, 3 Frenchies assaulted 50 Jews? Are you kidding me? How does that even happen? I don’t care if they were all 18 they should kicked some ass!!! It doesn’t take much for the frenchies to start running!!!

  3. I agree with THH. The Jewish teens should have laid down some serious ass-kicking upon those anti-semetic jerks.
    It would have been especially cool if they tied them up with the Israeli flag.

  4. Asaf, someone is using your name to post the below ugly parody of a truely self hating jew. i suggest you check with moby immediately to have the imposter kicked off this site.
    “i was in poland and i hated those stupid israeli flags everywhere. our principal got pissed out that we werent singing the tikva out loud but whispering it softly.
    the poland trips run by the educational system (i dont know about other ones, i heard hanoar haoved had good trips) are ruined by the cynism and exploitation of a horrible human tradegy in narrow political terms. it is a disgrace if u ask me.”

  5. asaf,
    haha. you never cease to have shockstutter.
    moses didn’t stutter shock value to lead us to the promised land, he used what you would call the “cynism and exploitation of a horrible human tradegy in narrow political terms. We wander in the desert, we burn alive. G-d forbid zionists show up at auschwitz with those jewish symbols of national pride. Your cynicism: “it is a disgrace if u ask me.”
    – eli

  6. From the article.
    “But, if the two sides hadn’t been separated, it would have come to blows.”
    3 vs. 50. Yeah… sounds like a bunch of nebbish Jews to me. The term we use ’round here is JAP (Jewish American Princess).
    Mind you, it still is ‘interesting’ that these Francaphones decided to get uppity at Aushwitz of all places. Wouldn’t the UN be more appropriate?

  7. Asaf/oofnik,
    I really am sorry for you and your self-hating feelings.
    A good Jew for you is an assimilated, secular Jew, right?

  8. avi and josh – self hating? i dont have problem with respect and dignity. if i was there i hope i would have come with a nice way to show those french “gentlemen” what that means. ignorance mixed with hatred is a painful thing to see.
    eli, you wrote: “G-d forbid zionists show up at auschwitz with those jewish symbols of national pride. Your cynicism: “it is a disgrace if u ask me.””
    eli, do you think it is not cynical to talk about holocaust IN poland, in the narrow terms of army service/refusal, current politics, and the political implications of the quote “bechol dor vador omdim alayinu…..” 24-7? it made me sick to the stomach. Obviously my classmates were intellectually mature enough not to swollow that garbage and we had a great experience. I mean, when a principal shouts at you for not singing the tikva loud enough (thats not cynical, right?) you gotta be pretty blind not to understand that somethings wrong. this is not only the point of view of a “radical” – as i said many of my classmates felt the same, and it is your full right to deny those feelings of ours.

  9. THH, Canuck, and Jason,
    It’s easy for you to say, in hindsight, what they should have done. I’m sure many of them now wish they had beat the sense out of the bastards. But if you were walking through a gas chamber, thinking about all the horrible things that happened there, and suddenly some started yelling incoherent, hateful nonsense at you, do you really think you’d jump into action. Maybe you’re all superheroes, but I know I’d take a good minute or two before I realized this was not some bad dream. Grow up.

  10. “eli, do you think it is not cynical to talk about holocaust IN poland, in the narrow terms of army service/refusal, current politics, and the political implications of the quote “bechol dor vador omdim alayinu…..” 24-7?”
    No, actually I think it’s quite appropriate. The politicization of the Jewish people first happens at Auschwitz when, as descendents of ,as you like to call them, “white Ashkenazi Jews” view places where our families were murdered /because/ of the fact that they were “white ashkenazi Jews” – the inherent political nature of those terms not only comes out, but is shifted. Now, if we assume that their is some sort of political, social, emotional or socio-economic connection between the ashes of those people and the current affairs of Jewish people in the diaspora and Israel, I would be more angry that Mercedes Benz’s cart passengers all around Tel Aviv everyday, Henry Ford’s Ford Foundation funds half of the Free University of Berlin, and secular American Jews would rather celebrate their new big screen television than their son’s bar mitzvah.
    Standing at those camps turns me from a utopian socialist into someone with their feet on the ground. It is the one place where I feel perfectly comfortable feeling just as sick and angered as everyone else. If those as you say, “ignorant french” so much as sneered at me wrapped in an Israeli flag, I would have done more than shake it off.
    I don’t deny your feelings, I shake my head at them. But it doesn’t matter to you, or your “intellectually mature” classmates. You had a “great experience” visiting the place where not a soul, whether Jew or gentile, recieved a dignified burial.
    “bechol dor vador omdim alayinu”

  11. “I don’t deny your feelings, I shake my head at them. But it doesn’t matter to you, or your “intellectually mature” classmates. You had a “great experience” visiting the place where not a soul, whether Jew or gentile, recieved a dignified burial.”
    Eli, why do you shake your heads at other people’s experiences and feelings? is there anything wrong in not coming out with a nationalistic message from maidaneck but perhaps with an anarchist one?
    is it reall that bad to feel disgusted to see us indoctrinated to be soldiers in such a circumstance? instead of understanding that humans commited genocide against other humans, we are left with formula of Nazis vs. Jews. such a formula is very safe because our role in it is already fashioned – we can only be the victims. the fact is that we are potential holocaust victims as much as we are potential nazis.

  12. “Eli, why do you shake your heads at other people’s experiences and feelings?”
    I don’t shake my head “at other people’s experiences and feelings.” I shake my head at you for repeating the worn out attitudes of Arendt, Pavel, and other so engrained in the iconoclastic “banality of evil” read on…
    “is there anything wrong in not coming out with a nationalistic message from maidaneck but perhaps with an anarchist one?”
    of course not! but, whether or not you like to believe it, one is not an /autonomous/ individual standing at Auschwitz. You are Asaf, the Jew. You may very well be praising Emma Goldman to the high heavens, you are Asaf, The (anarchist) Jew. In Israel, who cares, everyone is Jewish. In the United States, who cares, you’re not that special. In Poland, You are not only a Jew, but an Israeli.
    “Is it really that bad to feel disgusted to see us indoctrinated to be soldiers in such a circumstance?”
    I think your feelings are valid. But I don’t think that feeling has to do with any of your “classic jewish paranoia” accusations. Not once in your first post did you say anything about said indoctrination, I can only assume unfairly that you connect Israeli flags to being a soldier and/or singing hatikvah. This I can assert, is a patently false comparison made by the most virilent of anti-Zionists.
    “Instead of understanding that humans commited genocide against other humans, we are left with formula of Nazis vs. Jews.”
    This rough evocation of Arendt and other similarly minded historians is clear. Ask any Jew, or anyone really if the Nazis were flesh and blood human beings (homo sapiens) only the most psychotic would assert they were any other species. That line is patently cliche, and obvious.
    “such a formula is very safe because our role in it is already fashioned – we can only be the victims.”
    I’m sorry, but at Auchwitz, in that space, we are Jews. Anyone who challenges Jews physically in that space will be automatically compared to the Nazis by all the Jews there. If you disagree, take it up with history.
    The fact is that we are potential holocaust victims as much as we are potential nazis.
    Sure, but go tell your black american friend that American slavery shouldn’t inspire militant black nationalism because the Black people have the same capacity to enslave, murder, and commit genocide as do the White Christian Europeans that committed the crimes initially.
    You can talk about anarchism, universalism, non-hierarchical living and all that good stuff, but I’m truly disturbed that you hatikvah, the israeli flag, and evocations of the Jewish army in a space where Jewishness (not Israeliness) is threatened every second of the day.

  13. You can talk about anarchism, universalism, non-hierarchical living and all that good stuff, but I’m truly disturbed that you find hatikvah, the israeli flag, and evocations of the Jewish army distateful in a space where Jewishness (not Israeliness) is threatened every second of the day.

  14. “but, whether or not you like to believe it, one is not an /autonomous/ individual standing at Auschwitz. You are Asaf, the Jew. You may very well be praising Emma Goldman to the high heavens, you are Asaf, The (anarchist) Jew. In Israel, who cares, everyone is Jewish. In the United States, who cares, you’re not that special. In Poland, You are not only a Jew, but an Israeli.”
    i am not denying my identity. i was born into it and cant deny the implication the holocaust has on me as a jew. thats not what i am saying. i am talking about political indoctrination performed by the Israeli education system. i hope i wasnt born a zionist too- zionism is a very broad term with political implications. no one is bron a zionist or a soldier (well, legally that is actually not far from reality). as far as i know being israeli doesnt mean i have to stand the annoying rhetoric repeated so many times in history classes and even more in the preparation for the poland trip. thats ALL i am saying.
    “I think your feelings are valid. But I don’t think that feeling has to do with any of your “classic jewish paranoia” accusations. Not once in your first post did you say anything about said indoctrination, I can only assume unfairly that you connect Israeli flags to being a soldier and/or singing hatikvah. This I can assert, is a patently false comparison made by the most virilent of anti-Zionists. ”
    read my original post above. i responded to the Town Crier’s “jewish paranoia” and then went on to describe my own experiences in poland trip. for all i care people can carry flags wherever they want. i personally hated it in poland. but that wasnt the indoctrination part of the trip – simply a not-very-aesthetic manifestation of it. if you ever were in an Israeli history class you would understand what i mean. in any case i am sorry i wasnt clear.
    “This rough evocation of Arendt and other similarly minded historians is clear. Ask any Jew, or anyone really if the Nazis were flesh and blood human beings (homo sapiens) only the most psychotic would assert they were any other species. That line is patently cliche, and obvious.”
    not for an Israeli. in high school i was writing for the school newspaper and wrote a piece on the above argument (not what u wrote but what I wrote) – that the holocaust was commited by humans against humans, and thus there is a double message here – not only are we the potential victims but also potential criminals. the editor censored it, claiming its too radical.
    “Sure, but go tell your black american friend that American slavery shouldn’t inspire militant black nationalism because the Black people have the same capacity to enslave, murder, and commit genocide as do the White Christian Europeans that committed the crimes initially. ”
    I agree! dont u?
    “You can talk about anarchism, universalism, non-hierarchical living and all that good stuff, but I’m truly disturbed that you hatikvah, the israeli flag, and evocations of the Jewish army in a space where Jewishness (not Israeliness) is threatened every second of the day.”
    to paraphrashe arundhuti roy, the holocaust is used to shrink the brains of the soldiers, and then the flag is used to bury them when they die. In the polish concentration camps I saluted all my human brothers and sisters who fought oppression or refused taking part in it in the holocaust – whether they were polish people who hid jews in their houses or jews who stole food for their brothers and sisters in the ghettoes.
    One thing you dont seem to comprehend is that it is true that we cannot ignore our identity as jews when walking into the death camps. but there are parts of our identities that we can shape – the political identity. and the difference is that political identity is personal. thus – If i would salute anyone it would be the refuseniks, not the IDF soldiers. Unless you care to challenge the political identity itself, you have no right to monopolize the political identity of all jews wherever they are.

  15. It seems this argument will run in circles. There is a clear difference.
    “One thing you dont seem to comprehend is that it is true that we cannot ignore our identity as jews when walking into the death camps. but there are parts of our identities that we can shape – the political identity.
    and you’re political identity has /everything/ to do with the fact you are a Jew. You maintain you went AWOL because you didn’t believe in the actions of the Israeli Army, the army of a Jewish state that you were born with a ticket into.
    “and the difference is that political identity is personal.”
    hence your own comment above.
    thus – If i would salute anyone it would be the refuseniks, not the IDF soldiers.
    Which, to me, contradicts your belief that the personal and the political are intertwined. If you truly thought they were intertwined you would see no difference between the political identity between a Refusenik Jew (who refuses because he is Jewish) and a Soldier Jew. (who fights because he is Jewish)
    But you do, so you say:
    Unless you care to challenge the political identity itself, you have no right to monopolize the political identity of all jews wherever they are.”
    I challenge with every fiber of my being those Jews who play, as you have, the game that pits one Jew against the other. I have contempt for your feelings about Zionist display at Auschwitz because it seems you sacrafice Jewish unity for your own rugged individualism you mistake as being completely up to you, completely at the whim of your own personal decisions. I used to think like you for a long time “If I believe in peace, love, and justice, I can create an immediate world around me that shares the same values. I can be a Jew, but I can only use this as a non-exclusionary self-understood term, and salute all those around me as human beings first and foremest” I don’t believe any differently now, I found I was too proud of my radicalism, and it cut me off from those who “weren’t as radical as me”. I see my face in yours.
    I certainly don’t monopolize anyones political identity, Asaf, but I challenge yours.

  16. I wrote: “and the difference is that political identity is personal.”
    Ooops. typo- i meant to write “personal choice”. this might explain your misunderstanding:
    “Which, to me, contradicts your belief that the personal and the political are intertwined. If you truly thought they were intertwined you would see no difference between the political identity between a Refusenik Jew (who refuses because he is Jewish) and a Soldier Jew. (who fights because he is Jewish)”
    there is part of your identity that can be chosen (zionist, anti-zionist, post-zionist, political), and part that cannot be (jewish etc.). so now you see- i have a right to salute one jew and not another (i do salute some soldiers… this is not the place to discuss who i do or do not salute) based on their political views. what you seem to think is that any jew going into aushcwitz has to hold the same political identity, as you wrote earlier on: “The politicization of the Jewish people first happens at Auschwitz when, as descendents of ,as you like to call them, “white Ashkenazi Jews” view places where our families were murdered /because/ of the fact that they were “white ashkenazi Jews” – the inherent political nature of those terms not only comes out, but is shifted…”
    obviously you have a right to hold any political view you want but dont force it on me like my educational system did.
    and now lets go on…
    “I challenge with every fiber of my being those Jews who play, as you have, the game that pits one Jew against the other. I have contempt for your feelings about Zionist display at Auschwitz because it seems you sacrafice Jewish unity for your own rugged individualism you mistake as being completely up to you, completely at the whim of your own personal decisions.”
    You see what you are doing? you are not challenging me regarding the specific incident in aushwitz – you are challenging eveerything about my political views or criticism of zionism. how else can you explain your complete disrespect to the fact that i find militarist propaganda on the backs of jewish victims to be disgraceful? the only way you can justify that is through the use of the terms “jewish unity”. Jewish Unity? what are you talking about? can you stand behind your words and show that all jews stand behind the propaganda i was given from day one in history classes, building up to the day i went to poland? and even if you can show me this “Jewish Unity” (u sure you dont mean “zionist”? that would be a bit closer to the truth, just itsy bitsy bit), does that deligitimize my own political identity? the fact is, i was born a jew, i wasnt born a soldier, a zionist, an anti-zionist or a voter for the likud.
    “I certainly don’t monopolize anyones political identity, Asaf, but I challenge yours”
    no no no. you are using words like “jewish unity” to cover up what is really a political monopoly. you seem to think that being a soldier in the army (any army, for the sake of the argument) is as politically charged as being a jew. but there is a huge difference that i hope i dont need to spell out. there is a difference in going to aushwitz as a jew in the context of the Jewish holocaust than going in the context of militarist propoganda. i dont deny the existence of the jewish holocaust or of a jewish context to the tradegy.

  17. “obviously you have a right to hold any political view you want but dont force it on me like my educational system did.”
    that is true. but I can’t help but laugh.
    In terms of your other retorts:
    1) I consider your criticism of zionist display at Auschwitz as indicative of your overall contempt and anger for the ideas and events you experienced as a Jew living in the state of Israel.
    2) The term “Jewish Unity” has as much to do with Ahavat Yisrael as it does with universal love. In the same way that Marcus Garvey and David Walker fashioned “black unity” as the first means to undoing the physical displacement of slavery, I view “Jewish unity” as the first means to undoing the physical, spiritual, and emotional displacement of Jewish people, whether they go AWOL in NY or fight palestinian militants in Shechem every day, or care more about their Benz than their children. I may not agree with any of their political identities, be it anarchist, gush enumim, or republican, but I don’t determine my opinion of their character, nor do I accuse them of any moral transgression. Your fondness for anarchism would know that I, as well as you, meet the individual as the individual.
    3)I criticize your disrespect of Zionist displays of the Israeli Flag and a teacher scolding you to sing hatikvah louder at a death camp. I don’t dismiss them as “militarist propaganda.” In fact, I think that terms diminishes the individual Jew as an heir to a history of cultural repression and diaspora. But you know nothing of the diaspora. NYU isn’t the diaspora.
    Obviously you have an entirely different vantagepoint from which you view Jewishness, Zionism, Israel. It is profoundly sad you can’t understand why it makes me ill you have such contempt for Jewish unity,
    repatriation is a must, listen to some sizzla and you’ll get in on the new adventures of those like us, those born in an American Babylon, where we’re Jews but no minority discourse accepts us as their own.

  18. “that is true. but I can’t help but laugh…. But you know nothing of the diaspora. NYU isn’t the diaspora.”
    i never claimed to have that knowledge of the diaspora. at the same time you seem to have ignorance of Israel itself: “I consider your criticism of zionist display at Auschwitz as indicative of your overall contempt and anger for the ideas and events you experienced as a Jew living in the state of Israel. “
    you see, i was not the only engaged in the discussion about militarism and zionisim in poland. all my class was. it was an uplifting experience. i wonder where you would have fit into that discussion. you would be probably the one claiming that the whole discussion shouldn’t take place. why arent we shouting the tikva louder? where are the flags? are there any people in uniforms? let them hold them flags. ok, when the ceremony begins, make sure the soldiers are holding the flags high. yeah, thats right. louder, kids, louder!!
    fuck that. the poland trip was one of the most amazing experiences i had in my life. my fellow students (now serving in gaza and the kyria), not me, were the one who ridiculed the principal’s request for us to shout the tikva louder.
    You seem to wish that all jews going to aushwitz should experience the same experience you do. thats your problem, not OURS (I am saying this on behalf of more than hundred students who had more than hundred different experiences). we all stood in solidarity with each other, with the fact that we share this tradegy together. but yes, we are indibiduals, not some collective conscious.
    “criticize your disrespect of Zionist displays of the Israeli Flag and a teacher scolding you to sing hatikvah louder at a death camp. I don’t dismiss them as “militarist propaganda.” In fact, I think that terms diminishes the individual Jew as an heir to a history of cultural repression and diaspora. But you know nothing of the diaspora. NYU isn’t the diaspora.”
    forget it, you weren’t even there and you are criticizing my emotions, which is bringing us nowhere. when you go to poland and see the piles of the ashes in the great monument in mydanek (?), i wont tell you what to feel. for all care join the army, it aint my business. but no one needs to tell me to do the same. the flags are a minor issue, i already explained to you that.

  19. EMTZAlex, you are right. I would have just been frozen in shock.
    This is just too unreal – but it is real, and we’ve got to do something about it.

  20. eli, i looked back at earlier posts in this thread and you wrote the following:
    “No, actually I think it’s quite appropriate. The politicization of the Jewish people first happens at Auschwitz when, as descendents of ,as you like to call them, “white Ashkenazi Jews” view places where our families were murdered /because/ of the fact that they were “white ashkenazi Jews””
    you obviously hold a caricature of me and my political views that may have been more accurate 4 years ago, if at all.
    “The term “Jewish Unity” has as much to do with Ahavat Yisrael as it does with universal love. In the same way that Marcus Garvey and David Walker fashioned “black unity” as the first means to undoing the physical displacement of slavery, I view “Jewish unity” as the first means to undoing the physical, spiritual, and emotional displacement of Jewish people, whether they go AWOL in NY or fight palestinian militants in Shechem every day, or care more about their Benz than their children. I may not agree with any of their political identities, be it anarchist, gush enumim, or republican, but I don’t determine my opinion of their character, nor do I accuse them of any moral transgression. Your fondness for anarchism would know that I, as well as you, meet the individual as the individual. ”
    you obviously care more about my political identity than you think. i told you already a few times that there is nothing wrong in putting the holocaust in a jewish context. in fact its not wrong to put the holocaust in a militarist conflict as long as i dont have to be there and suffer it.

  21. one more thing:
    “of course not! but, whether or not you like to believe it, one is not an /autonomous/ individual standing at Auschwitz. You are Asaf, the Jew. You may very well be praising Emma Goldman to the high heavens, you are Asaf, The (anarchist) Jew. In Israel, who cares, everyone is Jewish. In the United States, who cares, you’re not that special. In Poland, You are not only a Jew, but an Israeli.”
    thats 100 percent correct. but it has nothing to do with my dislike for cynical militarism manifested in nationalistic exhbisionism. is anything wrong with that?

  22. i’ve never heard of a Jew who doesn’t , in the smallest ounce of passion, take pride in the militarism of those who fought in every ghetto uprising. If I understand correctly, you may take pride in it as a “human being” I take pride in it as a Jew. That is one place we differ. Where we differ is that I find pride in the militarism of those in tzahal who are soldiers, law-abiding, moral, and fierce soldiers who fight militarist Palestinians who seek to kill not only their immediate enemies, but also random Jews like you and me. We look like those boys and girls.
    the Israeli flag and a loud tikvah make many of us very proud.
    You claim to have a better understanding of the army that I speak of, and therefore you don’t support many if not all of its actions, and more importantly, you chose not to fight in it. You were born in Israel. I was born in New York City. You fight your identity. I fight for one.

  23. “i’ve never heard of a Jew who doesn’t , in the smallest ounce of passion, take pride in the militarism of those who fought in every ghetto uprising”
    excuse me? who was talking about the ghettos??
    “If I understand correctly, you may take pride in it as a “human being” I take pride in it as a Jew.”
    you didnt understand correctly. i said that i recognize the jewish context and appreciate the holocaust from within that context too. it is kind of inevitable because i am a jew.
    “You claim to have a better understanding of the army that I speak of, and therefore you don’t support many if not all of its actions, and more importantly, you chose not to fight in it. You were born in Israel. I was born in New York City. You fight your identity. I fight for one.”
    all this is all good and will but is besides the point. i guess this isnt going anywhere. off to a pub with some friends from israel… i’ll ask them for their thoughts about poland – maybe i am just a crazy jew.

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