Monday was Yom Ha'Atzma'ut…
Mar Gavriel tells us:
Most of the world is observing Yom Ha’Atzma’ut on Tuesday, because Yom HaZikaron is the day before Yom Ha’Atzma’ut and when Yom HaZikaron is due to be on a Sunday we push the whole lot up a day – Yom HaZikaron on Monday and Yom Ha’Atzma’ut on Tuesday – so as not to encourage people to drive to the memorials when it is still Shabbat.
Consideration 1: According to Rav Hershel Schachter (top bod at Yeshiva University), halakhic Yom Ha’Atzma’ut can never fall on any date other than 5 Iyyar, because that is the actual date on which the miraculous event occurred. So no pushing it off to Tuesday – if 5 Iyyar is a Monday, Yom Ha’Atzma’ut is a Monday, end of story.
Consideration 2: But this Monday was Ta‘anit Behab. Almost no one today still fasts, but a number of communities still recite the associated Selichot.
So — on Monday, the main YU Beis Medresh minyan recited Selichot AND Hallel. Not something one generally sees.
I’m sorry, did you say “halachic” yom ha’atzmaut? They can give halachic sanction to totally made up modern holidays, but they cannot ordain women or come up with a solution to the agunah issue? Are you kidding me? Halacha, it can’t be changed, except, you know, when it can be. Sheesh!
They *can* ordain women, they just don’t want to.
I was wondering about this. Here in Israel, there is very little of the Herschel Schachter style of creative halakha – if there’s any chance of hillul shabbat, we put things off. But somehow, it seems disingenous to me to not allow a day like Yom HaAtzmaut, which has by most authorities the same status as Purim (which gets put off for Shabbat, too), to defer the recitation of selichot, just like it defers Tachanun and Psalm 120.
What’s with that?
While I disagree with Schachter on most topics from assassination to monkeys, I have to agree with him on this one (though I would also agree with Simcha Daniel about deferring selichot). If you’re going to observe Yom Ha’atzma’ut as a religious holiday, it should be observed on the actual day, and not moved just because the Knesset says so. The Knesset has civil governmental authority in Israel, but I don’t think this body of secular Jews, hareidim, and Israeli Arabs should have religious authority. And while I can understand, to some degree, the strong link between Jewish religious observances in Israel and Israeli civil religion, that shouldn’t have any effect on Jewish communities outside of Israel.
It’s not like there isn’t precedent. Tisha B’av is always the 9th of Av…except of course those years when Shabbat pushes it to the 10th. Ta’anit Esther is always the day before Purim, unless Purim falls on Motzei Shabbat. Then, we push the fast back TWO days given the unseemliness of fasting on erev Shabbat. Doesn’t it make sense then that when Yom Hazikkaron falls on motzei Shabbat, rather than creating a situation of chillul Shabbat and/or delaying the start of the tekesim until an ungodly late hour, we push it back a day. Shabbat is not diminished. Yom Hazikkaron is not diminished.
And if you believe that 6 Iyyar 5708 was any less miraculous a day than 5 Iyyar, you are (I submit) missing the bigger picture rather completely.
BZ, I’m actually surprised you celebrate an Israeli civil holiday in a religious way at all (except maybe skipping tachanun, which disappears for any good excuse).
Now I see that you don’t.
And if you believe that 6 Iyyar 5708 was any less miraculous a day than 5 Iyyar, you are (I submit) missing the bigger picture rather completely.
The bigger picture being that Israel’s founding was conclusively miraculous? I choose to believe that it was the result of human agents and actions. How am I wrong, exactly?
It’s not like there isn’t precedent. Tisha B’av is always the 9th of Av…except of course those years when Shabbat pushes it to the 10th.
Tisha B’Av commemorates an event that lasted multiple days, and 10 Av is one of the dates given in Tanakh.
Ta’anit Esther is always the day before Purim, unless Purim falls on Motzei Shabbat.
The date of Ta’anit Esther doesn’t commemorate a specific event (Esther’s fast was in Nisan).
10 Tevet, in contrast, does commemorate a specific event, and is observed as a fast even on Friday, with the fast going into the beginning of Shabbat (and some say would be observed as a fast even on Shabbat, except that it never falls on Shabbat in our calendar).
Then, we push the fast back TWO days given the unseemliness of fasting on erev Shabbat. Doesn’t it make sense then that when Yom Hazikkaron falls on motzei Shabbat, rather than creating a situation of chillul Shabbat and/or delaying the start of the tekesim until an ungodly late hour, we push it back a day. Shabbat is not diminished. Yom Hazikkaron is not diminished.
Sure, it makes sense. And many would also say that it makes sense to move Pesach when it falls on motzaei Shabbat, but I would be surprised to see any religious communities move the date of their Pesach observance as a result of a secular government’s actions.
And if you believe that 6 Iyyar 5708 was any less miraculous a day than 5 Iyyar, you are (I submit) missing the bigger picture rather completely.
What are you referring to? The invasion of the new state of Israel by Syria and Egypt?
@BZ, i think it’s the rabanut, which is a religious authority (a problematic one, obvi), who pushed off yom hashoah/yom hazikaron/yom haatzmaut.
Isn’t the choosing of ה’ אייר as the date for Yom Ha’atzmaut arbitraty to begin with? Obviously I know about declaring independence that day, but if, for example, the Zionists declared that כ”ט ב’נובמבר (anniversary of UN partition plan giving the Jews a state) would be the date, would R’ Shachter say the same thing (that you could not postpone a day because of Shabbat)? My point is that because one technically could have chosen a variety of different days anyway, the halachic principle seems open to being more flexible, don’t you think?
That said, if you do hold that ה’ אייר has to remain the day on which Yom Ha’atzmaut is celebrated, then why not move Yom Hazikaron to Thursday before Shabbat, similar to Taanit Esther? Yom Hazikaron is definitely the more “choose whatever date you want” type of day.
the english word “miracle” denotes the precipitation of divine intervention.
the hebrew word “nes” (which is translated to miracle) actually means “sign” or something that is charged with sparks of meaning. see Isaiah 11:12
“Tisha B’Av commemorates an event that lasted multiple days”
Israel’s independence, by contrast, lasted only one day. Oh, wait.
“The date of Ta’anit Esther doesn’t commemorate a specific event (Esther’s fast was in Nisan).”
And yet it has come to be intimately linked with Purim, even as Yom HaZikkaron is in the Israeli soul inextricably related to Yom HaAtzmaut. Can’t have one without the other.
“And many would also say that it makes sense to move Pesach when it falls on motzaei Shabbat, but I would be surprised to see any religious communities move the date of their Pesach observance as a result of a secular government’s actions.”
Pesach is by definition celebrated in the home. Yom HaZikkaron, by contrast is marked communally and therefore presents greater logistical challenges (if you don’t believe me, just wait and see what balagan emerges as hundreds of thousands descend on Meron en masse Motzei Shabbat Lag BaOmer this year).
the only reason 9th of av cannot be commemorated on shabbos is because of the fast. we don’t fast on shabbos. if we fasted on yom ha’atzmaut, that wouldn’t be celebrated either.
“we don’t fast on shabbos.”
Except on Yom Kippur, when we do. We don’t mourn on Shabbat, which is an excellent reason for ensuring that neither Tisha B’av nor Yom Hazikkaron are observed on Shabbat.
Except on Yom Kippur, when we do.
“Shabbat shabbaton”.
while you all bring up some good points practically speaking you would be hard pressed to find anyone that fasts bahab that would also consider yom hatzmaut a yom tov (or even if you werent against the state per se you certinaly wouldnt be saying hallel) although there are some strange mutations of zionaistic orthodoxy coming out of YU these days..
‘Most of the world is observing Yom Ha’Atzma’ut…’
Most of the world doesn’t have a clue what Yom Ha’Atzma’ut is.
BZ, I used to also think that Yom Kippur took precendence over Shabbat because of the ““Shabbat shabbaton” thing, but there are multiple references in the Torah to Shabbat itself being called “Shabbat shabbaton”.