Orthodox Grandmother Assaulted By Haredim

As some of you may be aware, all is not well in Frumville. At least, not for the Modern Orthodox. Their women suffer bleaching; they suffer stoning for not holding by the shabbos zmanim of Chassidim from Poland, as they have the strange idea that shabbos ends when the sun goes in down wherever they happen to be, even if that place is the Land of Israel; and they are forced into segregation and haredi standards of dress they do not want.
Sometimes Modern Orthodox women resist being forced to sit at the back of the segregated buses. The haredim don’t like it when they perceive that to be happening. And now, yet another incident of an Orthodox woman being assaulted by haredim has occurred. This one a true threat to tznius (modesty, the numero uno mitzvah for women according to the right-wing ultra-Orthodox), a seventy year old grandmother trying to help seat her grandchild.
Emes Ve-Emunah reports,

“This is from an Areivim list member and it so important that it needs to get wider exposure. It happened yesterday.”
Sorry to bring up an old topic; but it hit close to home this time. This is addressed at all those readers who don’t believe that this happens without provocation:An hour ago my brother left my parents in Ramat Bet Shemesh and got on a Mehadrin bus with 2 of his kids – and my Mother came on behind him with the baby, intending to put the baby down and get off before the bus leaves.
A Kanoi [zealot] jumped up and pushed my 70 year old mother (holding a baby) backward and pinned her to the front of the bus, yelling at her to get off, ignoring her explanation of why she was on the men’s side. Of course she couldn’t get off because she was being pinned against the front of the bus.
Her arms are aching so badly so can hardly function; and the only person who intervened on a full bus of Frum Yidden was the Arab bus driver!!!!

Haredi apologists will rush to note that “daas Torah” does not approve of violence to achieve their goal of bus segregation. They will insist we should not condemn the many for the actions of the few.
It may be the actions of a few, but it is the inaction of quite a few more, because they are implementing the will of the haredi leaders and their masses . These assaults are happening because of the goal of achieving compliance of this new chumrah (stringency).
As Rabbi Harry Maryles notes,

The condemning posters in Ramat Bet Shemesh B put up by the Edah HaCharedis have been pointed to as evidence that the rabbinic leadership is strongly opposed to violent protest. But those posters in the same breath endorsed the very goals sought by those violent demonstrators.

29 thoughts on “Orthodox Grandmother Assaulted By Haredim

  1. Orthodox Grandmother Assualted By Haredim
    Orthodox Grandmother Assaulted By Haredim
    /TFIFY (there, fixed it for you)

  2. DK is doing great work exposing the attempt of the Satmars to take over the world – please look at my previous post complementing him about his investigative reporting:
    DK says: “in the haredi world. Of course, there are many other things to rely one’s contempt on”
    DK, I really appreciate your efforts to warn us that the Satmars are the evil rulers of the world. I understand you are afraid to say that outright, I’m sure you feel your life would be in danger should you outright set out the evil plot – but thanks to you we now see that Hitler was right, that
    the Iranian president was right, that Hamas was right, they are all fighting to stamp out the secret Satmar cabal that rules the world –
    the plot is nefarious beyond belief, first the Satmars rule the Herredi world (as proved by the Rebbees advising all to follow their lead (cf your prior cites);
    then the Harredi world turns all the world’s Jews into an “untouchable” caste, the second class Jews do all the dirty work, like capturing the political power over all the worlds leaders; and then the world does the bidding the just one man, the Satmar Rebbee.
    DK, I admire your insight! And now a confession, I too know about the plot, indeed I’m part of it, since my mother was born during a full moon (as you’ve previously indicated that makes me even lower caste than B’nai Niddahism)
    – my assignment is way down the totem pole, to run the mayor of Los Angeles.
    Oh, the pain of a 3rd class Jew – doomed (cf your prior cites) to mopping up the floor of the local shul, bowing in subservience to any Hassid I meet, and of course kissing the ground and never rising in the presence of a Satmar
    thank you DK for exposing my plight!

  3. Yes, that’s right. Let’s just ignore this sort of thing – because everyone knows that no frum Jew ever does anything wrong, and no frei Jew ever does or says anything right.
    Incorrect, I once asked this of former muslim and didn’t get an answer – why do you hang out here? Why do you even bother to post? You don’t agree with anything that’s said; you don’t seem to like these people. Why not simply hang out at a Hareidi blog – or start your own?

  4. Cipher: a) of course frum Jews do wrong things, and the article is an example of disgusting things done by religious fanatics; b) I hang out here because why bother hanging out where everyone agrees with you, that would be boring; in fact based on a few of the posts many do agree with me; and finally, it’s a good thing for those who constitute the majority here to occasionally leave their self contained cocoon to see there is another side to these arguments, who knows, maybe I have brought the light of day, or at least a little sanity, into their lives, maybe a month or a year from now they will see the foolishness of their thoughts and begin to change, and I will have played a small role in that.

  5. everyone agrees with you, that would be boring
    I have to think, then, that you’re just looking for conflict. I can’t believe that your post addressed to DK, similar in tone to so many of your posts, is meant simply to show him and the rest of us the error of our ways.

  6. Cipher, and how do you learn without conflict – isn’t that what diversity is all about, from the clash of ideas comes truth. What in your Jewish or school education made you believe you should only hear one point of view? Are you afraid that exposure to alternative thoughts just might shake up your belief system?

  7. Incorrect is completely holding it down so I don’t really need to add much, except this: anti-haredi prejudice is like any other prejudice, irrational and patently wrong. Were this referencing any ethnicity or non-Jewish religious group, it would be roundly denounced for being any number of words ending in “-ist”.
    Ultimately everyone needs a soapbox, one would, however, hope, that one would not choose a cause such as eradicating Jewish religious sects.
    On the flipside, my rav recently told me, in reference to the opposition my music has gotten in the Israeli charedi world, “they’re going crazy in Yerushalayim.” The condition is apparently spreading to Ramat Beit Shemesh.

  8. I’ll try once more, then I’m out.
    We don’t need conflict to learn. And you don’t simply engage in a clash of ideas – you ridicule. You do it all the time.
    Y-Love, c’mon. That’s not what this exchange between incorrect and myself is about – and you know it.
    That’s it for me. If you guys want to have the last word – go ahead.

  9. Y-Love, why don’t you read incorrect’s posts before agreeing with him just because he is pro-haredi. You may empower him, but you reduce the value of your own word in the process.

  10. I don’t, just for your personal information and enlightenment (since I know you’re pro-enlightenment), agree as a matter of course with anyone who happens to be pro-haredi. Case in point, there are entire Israeli communities I don’t agree with.
    However, there is a not-so-fine line between expressing rage over an incident (and the associated inaction) and anti-haredi prejudice and neurosis.

  11. “However, there is a not-so-fine line between expressing rage over an incident (and the associated inaction) and anti-haredi prejudice and neurosis.”
    Incident? As in — singular, this was an isolated incident? Is that your position?

  12. there are entire Israeli communities I don’t agree with
    Y-Love, I believe you – but, in this forum, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you criticize a pro-Hareidi poster or defend someone who was taking the opposing position – regardless of the issue. I remember about a year or two ago, Dan called you on it. I don’t think you answered him.
    BTW, if I misunderstood you earlier (thinking your post was directed at me) – my apologies.

  13. I just read it. I admire your courage in expressing all of this; I realize it must be painful for you.
    It’s a serious problem, Yitz. It can’t continue this way, yet I really don’t know what can be done about it. David has had first-hand experience with it, and walked away, which is why he feels an imperative about exposing it.
    Interesting that one of the commenters mentions Rav Kook; there’s no way that he’d ever have approved of these goings-on.
    Two stories about Rav Kook come to mind:
    As you know, haRav embraced Jews from all backgrounds, of little faith and of no faith. Once, he was being criticized by his Orthodox colleagues, who told him that frei Yidden are sinners, and that, by associating with them, he was giving them tacit approval and, in so doing, was sinning himself. His reply: “Better that I should be accused of the sin of ahavas chinam (causeless love) than that of sinat chinam causeless hatred).”
    The other I committed to memory over thirty years ago. I’ve never forgotten it (which is no small thing, because I can’t remember what I did this morning!). I think this is pretty much verbatim:
    “It is obvious to me that the reason for our people’s lowered estate is the continuing disrespect shown by those who uphold the Torah toward those who abandon it. It is the person who mocks the one who leaves the Torah, and not the latter, who withdraws himself from the community of Israel and divine grace.”
    The sad thing is, if Rav Kook were alive today, the Hareidim would probably shun him for not being frum enough.

  14. Can we please define the Heredim – I would think the Lubavatchers quailify – they are open to all Jews including those of little or no faith. So it’s not the Heredi who should be criticized in general, but those who act in an incorrect fashion – can we agree on that?

  15. incorrect,
    Clearly these were not Lubavitchers. They do not enforce chumras like that. And clearly these were not Satmar. They do not demand medinah infrastructure abide by their ways. However, both of these groups — for very different reasons — are not normative of haredi behavior.
    It is up to the haredim to identify the groups to whom the culprits do belong to. Only when the haredim turn on those committing such actions, and their respective sects–will haredim generally be exonerated. It is not for the secular or Modern Orthodox (who are more frequently the targets) to excuse the many for the actions of the few. It is for the haredi masses to stop encouraging such behavior through inaction, but rather, to take action against the zealots, and expose who they are.

  16. I think Y-Love’s point is self-evident: if the headline above read “Grandmother assaulted by Reform Jew” or “Muslim mass-murders innocent people” the rage at the headline-writer’s “bias” would be palpable. (i.e. “How dare you imply that Reform Jews like to assault grandmothers?! That’s profiling!”)
    So let’s at least have the honesty to admit that the posting itself is fueled by animosity against a specific group. We can then discuss among ourselves whether such an agenda targeting a large group of people is morally valuable.

  17. DK – be realistic and honest. Is the driving force, the mentality behind these posts, a kana’ut for the flag of Modern Orthodoxy? Or rather is it anti-haredi bigotry?

  18. Y-Love,
    I am afraid and have a grim assessment of fundamentalism generally. This is something I feel across the board. I generally restrict myself to issues affecting the Jewish community (including when tackling Islamic and Christian fundamentalism), because that is my own community, and my own experience.
    As for Eric’s concern about not speaking up to Reform Jews who gang up on Jewish grandmothers in the name of Reform Judaism, I will definitely speak up about that when it happens. I guess they just haven’t been caught any at it yet.

  19. That’s true. As Jackie Mason used to say, no one’s worried about getting mugged by an accountant!

  20. DK, do you want a list of secular Jews who have conspired to commit major crimes? Does that give me the license to constantly attack secular Jews as criminals? Anyone can find aberrant members of groups (isn’t that what anti Semites have done regarding Jews for 2,000 years) and then attack that whole group as if they all possess that same feature – that’s called bigotry – and isn’t that what you consistently do to the frum?

  21. incorrect,
    It’s different doing a crime based on Judaism and in the name of Judaism than because, say, Jews like money.
    Fundamentalists must not be allowed to use liberalism against itself. You don’t call for the segregation of women on buses, assault those who resist, and then turn around and call anyone who complains a racist to silence protest. Doesn’t work like that.

  22. DK, all the bits of aberrant behavior (assault, segregation, etc.) deserve to be exposed and dealt with – but you go one step further, you tar ALL frum with those crimes.

  23. The push for segregation–which you concede is a problem — is not coming from a fringe element of the haredi community or a few individuals, but rather, from the umbrella organization of most mainstream (but not all) haredi groups, the Edah Haredis. Read Rabbi Maryles post which I sourced and linked to.

  24. DK, re segregation, in my opinion they are wrong, they shouldn’t try to impose their own beliefs on public transportation, but they are my brethren operating from what they consider to be a religiously required mandate, I’m not going to call them names or deride them, I don’t consider them evil, just wrong – you heap scorn on them in a way that I would only use on my mortal enemies – don’t you see it’s your focus and attitude that is creating your objectionable views (from my point of view), not your discussion of the issues?

  25. “you heap scorn on them in a way that I would only use on my mortal enemies ”
    Incorrect, that’s just a silly statement. You heap scorn on people here all the time.

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