Peace Out To Da Pope-ah
The Hindu reports on Jewish and Muslim mourning of The Pope’s passing in the Holy Land. For some reason this amuses me infinitely.
Thanks for the memories chief.
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Yeah. I’m sad. Not.
http://www.markb24.pwp.blueyon…
yingele: Why not? A great man died.
I’m an Orthodox Jew, but I certainly respect the man for the positive things he did, and as a ‘righteous gentile’ as well. Nu? If someone has some enlightening information as to why this perception is incorrect, please share.
that the Catholic church – The Vatican and the Pope covered up the molestation scandle where Catholic priests molested hundreds of boys and then covered it up is alone reason to not venerate this Pope. My idea of a righteous gentile is not one who knowingly allows little boys to be raped and sodomized.
The Pope himself covered up the pedophilia scandal? Evidence? I think it’s outrageous to accuse him of having knowingly allowed boys to be sexually abused.
Is that a joke Habibi? My evidence is that he is the head of the frickin church. And this wasn’t a one time thing that happened in some tiny little parish in the middle of nowhere.
Save your outrage for the priests who sodomized little boys, and the catholic church hierarchy (yes, all the way up to where the buck stops – the Pope) which just shuffled the pervert-priests around so more boys could get the host and the church could cover it up.
The guy is a rasha. He is the spiritual leader of idol worshipers. Come on… rest assured he was no “saint” 😉
Sausage in your ASS: never liked your blatantly STUPID comments. I will not dignify this one with an answer either. But, in response to other negative comments, truth is, they are exemplary manifestation of ‘ressentiment’. Or maybe, to an outside observer, they may also be manifestations of the ludicrous IMPOSSIBILITY to be at terms with some Jews, INREGARDLESS of one’s actions. Shameful.
Well if JC says he’s a rasha, we’d better listen. Hehe.
…..
…..
(By the way, if you think all practicing christians are rasha’im, your head is a little funky)
I think calling christians idol worshippers is far fetched. While there concept of the trinity does not jive well with Judasim, it does not make them idol worshippers. They understand G-d as one, with three components making up that sum. Whether that makes sense, is a whole other discussion, but I don’t think it puts Christians in the idol worshipping class.
Well, it’s good to know that there are folks on this site who know theology and politics better than some major rabbis who have eulogized him positively.
Umm… W- They worship a cross! and a woman named Mary! and Saints! and a man who claims hes the son of G-d! What does that make them if not idol worshipers. Worshipping a false g-d definitally puts one in the category of idol worshippers… and we all know what the Torah says about idol worshippers dont we???
Fineline- Id like to call you on the credibility of the major rabbis who have mourned the death of the pope. Who are these guys/girls? The ordained conservative homosexuals?
Ronen- I dont mean a rasha in the sense that they are intrisically bad people. But technically a person who is an idol worshipper is a rasha.
michael freud, i am IMPRESSED by your use of capitals. I also enjoyed the HOMOEROTIC undertones of your post. I also looked up INREGARDLESS in the DICTIONARY but could not find it. The creative use of the COLON to refer to the back door to my COLON was also groovy.
—
Sausage in your ASS
never liked your blatantly
STUPID comments I
—-
in response to the molestation charges, unless you (sausage) can provide good evidence that the man didn’t try to prevent it from happening, you’re basing it on web rumours. Even so, how would you, over 75 with parkinsons, deal with it in his shoes? like you implied, the molestation was global and ingrained in the system.
HAHA how nifty! I will neither dignify nor encourage further STUPIDITY by answering, IN SPITE OF the quite pathetically miserable attempts made at being a comedian of some sorts from Mr. Sausage’s side. However, the very name of this ludicrous character calls for an in-depth Freudian psychosexual analysis regarding his childhood stages of development; the problem(s) seem to stem from either the Oral or the Anal stage. What went wrong there?
This obviously calls for a thorough and comprehensive psychoanalysis, but I doubt that even then we will be able to precisely pinpoint the problem as the situation seems rather GRAVE. I am however positive that Mr. Sausage is in DENIAL right now, and will thus effectively DENY or FAIL to answer his condition completely.
I should be able to charge you for this.
My problem is SIMPLE, i love HAIKUS. Couldn’t tell ya from which stage it comes from, I’ll take both! THANK YOU for your help. I am now CURED. That Playboy.com link in your name helps too, naked airbrushed chicks are COOL.
Bozo, Perhaps the Pope didn’t know that Cardinal Law was brought to Rome. Bye bye Boston!
Perhaps the Pope did not know about the some 10,000 boys molested by some 4,000 priests. For a man who helped to bring down Communism I find it hard to believe he did not/could not do more to bring down chold molestation by Priests in his church. YMMV.
Jesus, J.C., I thought you were joking. Damn.
Well, if we can believe the spokesman of the Chief Rabbinate, “The chief rabbis had both met the pope, and appreciated his love for the Jewish people.” http://www.haaretz.com /hasen/spages/561381.ht ml).
A rasha? Let’s save that term for some people who really deserve it.
Anyway, you guys are like the YU putzes who went ballistic when some Catholics wanted to check out the bet midrash. That’s Jihad – and even if it’s “Jewish,” I don’t like it.
You need to keep up with reality. It’s a lie to say that this pope was the same as the popes who were behind the crusades or the inquisition. I am not saying he was perfect or that there isn’t still anti-Semitism in the Catholic church (not to mention among the evangelicals – which somehow doesn’t stop people from buddying up to them!). And I don’t want to minimize the theological differences we have with Christianity. But do we have to demonize? Turn this righteous man into a rasha?
Sausage, your argument is pathetic. Come on, your bit about Communism – that is pure rhetoric and you know it. By the way, what’s your position on Rumsfeld’s involvement in Abu Ghraib? Were you one of the people screaming for his resignation? What about Bush?
Habibi: The article you point to… it says that the Rabbi’s will not attend the funeral due to Passover. So when is the funeral? When is passover? Hmmm they dont seem to cooincide my man. Obviously for the purposes of keeping the peace the Rabbi’s have to tread carefully. Weve all seen what power the Vatican has over the masses.
And on another note, anyone who thinks that the pope was oblivious to the molestation that was going on in the catholic church is ignorant. He was aware… one would have to be a smart and worldly person to become pope. I would tend to agree with Sausage on this one. Things could have and should have been done. I know when something like that happens within our community the person is generally excommunicated and charges are brought up against the person… the vatican’s answer, lets move him to another city another parish leaving other familys as prey. Come on.
JC, I think you need to take a trip to http://theawarenesscenter.org
why don’t you take a look more specifically at http://theawarenesscenter.org/…
We do such a great job at excommunicating child molesters!!!!!!!
My favoriate is a qoute from Rabbi Bernard Freilich, administrator of the Council of Jewish Organizations in Boro Park, in references to the case against Rabbi Israel Grunwald ,”… that people are outraged at these charges. They are unbelievable, impossible nonsense. It is impossible that an Orthodox Chassidic person would even speak to a female, much less touch her.”
ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!!!!!!!!!!! Impossible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man oh Man, he should really hang out with his brothers more often. Man, I spoke to three Orthodox Chassidic men just today. Last weekend, one even touched me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( Granted not in the molesting kind of way) BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
Lordy Lord: I didnt say sexual abuse among religious Jews does not exist. I spoke in context of the experiences I know of in my community (as I wrote in the post). Any time there were founded accusations of sexual abuse the person who committed the crime was ostracized. ESPECIALLY RABBIS!!! These are people who interact with our wives and children and parents, who we consider leaders. How can we do anything less!
Furthermore, I have no idea who this Rabbi is nor anything about the organization he represents therefore I cannot make any judgement calls on the validity of his statements. Nevertheless, your example is not a legitimate comparison. We are talking about a world leader of catholics, someone who represents them as a whole compared to the administrator of the Council of Jewish Organizations who you have quoted. I would agree that the statement you quoted is definitally off base and narrow-minded and I come to 2 conclusions regarding this Rabbi. 1) he knows that the claims against the accused does not hold water and the quote was taken out of context 2) should they be founded claims then he is a very wrong in saying that. But this still does not negate the fact that the pope was aware of the molestation accusation for years. Again I am unsure of the specifics of the quote and the particulars of this occurrence but Im sure that there are quite a few instances of sexual abuse among religious Jews and it is a terrible thing. Bottom line people who commit these crimes should be taken to task…. The pope wasn’t willing to do it therefore he enabled it. Does it happen amongst Jews yes, Arabs yes, Hindus yes, Animists yea its all about how the people leading the communities handle the situation and the attempt to stop the acts. That is message I was trying to convey.
Habibi: I forgot to mention…we don’t dictate who is a rasha, Hashem does…. In one sense I think who am I too judge, but it seems to me as though when Hashem gave us the 10 Commandments one of those was don’t have any other G-d’s. Therefore it might be safe to assume that someone whos entire existence revolves around breaking one of the 10 Commandments and spreading this sin around the world should be called a rasha.
Finally admittedly I don’t know much about this Pope, I haven’t paid to much attention to him. However from what Ive heard hes done some nice things and Im sure he will be rewarded for those things. But lets not all run and call him a saint…
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Oh okay, J C, so every Christian is a rasha? Amazing. I’ll tell that to the Polish Catholics who hid my friend’s grandmother in their attic.
Anyway, you and Sausage have failed to convince me that the Pope can be held responsible for the abuses of those priests. How much did he know? At what point? Show me some more evidence. Certainly there were plenty of people in the Church who enabled this abuse – and at very high levels – but it seems to me that you indicted the Pope simply because he was a Catholic just as those priests who abused the kids. Sausage himself said that the mere fact that the pope was the head of the church made him responsible.
Baruch Hashem, we do not have a Vatican or a pope, but if we find out in a decade from now that there was abuse in some Bnei Akiva chapter or at a midrasha or religious high school in Eretz Yisrael, is the Chief Rabbinate by default morally culpable?
Habibi: If you knew and I knew then the pope knew. Dont be so naive.
Again we are caught up with the semantics of the word “rasha”… put it this way idolotors probobly aint gonna be found in heaven.
I am not saying that enabling sexual abuse is the reason why the pope is probobly in hell… but my claim is that he is an idolator.
Also, there was an occurence with a rabbi who was the principal of a school by me where he groped a couple of girls and ultimately he was brought up on official charges and trust me will never ever be allowed in one of our schools or community.
Sausage, your argument is pathetic. Come on, your bit about Communism – that is pure rhetoric and you know it. By the way, what’s your position on Rumsfeld’s involvement in Abu Ghraib? Were you one of the people screaming for his resignation? What about Bush?
You are entitled to your opinion, Michael Freud agrees with you. Regarding Rumsfeld, yes I did call for his resignation. Regarding Bush, no, because the prisoner abuses at Abu Graib were not on the same level as the thousands of innocent boys molested by priests. What happened at Abu Graib should not have happened, but those were not innocent teenagers in there and US Soldiers acting as prisoner guards are not the same as Priests who have the trust of innocent boys. I will classify your analogy as pathetic and we can call it a draw.
but it seems to me that you indicted the Pope simply because he was a Catholic just as those priests who abused the kids. Sausage himself said that the mere fact that the pope was the head of the church made him responsible.
Baruch Hashem, we do not have a Vatican or a pope, but if we find out in a decade from now that there was abuse in some Bnei Akiva chapter or at a midrasha or religious high school in Eretz Yisrael, is the Chief Rabbinate by default morally culpable?
No, I indicted the pope NOT because he was Catholic, but because he headed an organization in which he has the kind of authority in which he could have done something about it by using his bully pulpit, and he sure as hell would have found out about it through the chain of command. I can’t believe someone is arguing the Pope had plausible deniability here. If I understand you correctly, you feel that a.) he did not know about it and b.) if he did there would be nothing he could do about it anyways. I cannot see how one could come to either conclusion.
And on the topic of your bad analogies, if the Chief Rabbi of Israel has the kind of control and influence over Bnai Akiva or at a Yeshiva, knows about sexual abuse and fails to do something about it, then absolutely yes, he should resign and be held accountable.
I think you missed my point. My point is, not all rabbi’s are excomunicated. Rabbis who are child molesters, rapists, and so on also get swepts under the rug. Maybe in your community, Rabbi Child molesters get excomunicated, but I am not talking about your community, I am talking about the entire Jewish Community.
And I love how you are so sure about who is going to “Heaven” and “Hell” which by the way, are very christian concepts.
Lordy Lord:
Heaven and Hell are not christian concepts hun… gehenam and gan eden…
I do understand your point… and I agree with you but the parallel you are drawing is not valid.
I agree with you in that there are instances where people are voluntarily blind to the horrible acts of sexual abuse. But we dont have our chief rabbi’s ignoring this as the pope has and its not an endemic as it is within the catholic community.
Again I write in case you havent read clearly:
We don’t dictate who is a rasha, Hashem does…. In one sense I think who am I too judge, but IT SEEMS TO ME as though when Hashem gave us the 10 Commandments one of those was don’t have any other G-d’s. Therefore it might be safe to assume that someone whos entire existence revolves around breaking one of the 10 Commandments and spreading this sin around the world should be called a rasha. (and hence would be going to GEHENAM). So in essense I dont purport to be sure of who is going where but rather it seems to me that breaking one of the commandments Hashem gave to ALL PEOPLE (7 Noahide Laws) would relegate oneself to gehenam. Am I off base????