Rav Eliashiv Calls For Ceasefire
Haaretz reports,
The leader of the Degel Hatorah political party as well as the ultra-Orthodox Lithuanian community in Israel, Rabbi Yosef Shalom Eliashiv, went against the official position of the government in recent days, and expressed his support of a cease fire between Israel and Lebanon.
Eliashiv said recently “the decision makers must take into account the position of the world nations. They shouldn’t ignore or take lightly the ideas raised by other nations. If the United States raises solutions that could bring about the end of the war and save Jewish lives, they should be heeded. No offer or idea should be dismissed offhand. We mustn’t anger the nations of the world.”
I’m glad that the Rabbi is calling for a cease fire but the fact that he conspicuously ignores the deaths of innocents on the “other” side is sad to me
But maybe he knows that his constuency doesn’t give a shit about that
I’m sure it’s not an exact quote of what he said.
“We mustn’t anger the nations of the world.” Refrain of every galut appeaser throughout Jewish history. How dare we stand up for ourselves?
And which nations should we seek to avoid ‘angering’? Iran, Syria, or any of the other legion of nations who refuse to admit Israel’s existence, only calling us the “Zionist Entity”? Our very existence angers them. Because of that, should we abandon our homeland?
Such rabbis are hopelessly misguided, even halachically. Should we listen to ideas such as ceasefire? Of course– but only on terms that respect our right to be here and defend ourselves. A ceasefire that does not take into account Hezbollah’s clear guilt in this war is not a ceasefire, it’s an acceptance of their murderous assault.
Stick to the books rabbi!
This is absurd. Jewish law (Shulchan Aruch and Rambam) goes as far as to say that if a neighboring entity poses a threat to ones field (let alone life) Jews can and must violate the Shabbat – to arm themselves and defend their property.
With all do respect, some rabbis are better in the Yeshiva.
(you must recall Rabbi Ovadia Yoseph blaming Katrina on G-d’s wrath on the Shavrtzes, or his view that the Holocaust was G-ds punishment for Jewish assimilation – or for that matter hias support for Oslo, and them his position against the disengagement)
In related news, Ehud Olmert issues a halakhic ruling on how hot a glass vessel must be before it can be considered kashered…
😀
well… yeah. but it sounds to me like he’s just being practical.
F’instance, if defending your self against the attacker would create more danger than not, you might be allowed to not, to let it go, depending on what seems genuinely more helpful.
“the decision makers must take into account the position of the world nations. They shouldn’t ignore or take lightly the ideas raised by other nations. If the United States raises solutions that could bring about the end of the war and save Jewish lives, they should be heeded. No offer or idea should be dismissed offhand. We mustn’t anger the nations of the world.
which isn’t saying “don’t kill anybody” or even, “don’t kill innocent people” it’s more like “watch your ass” “don’t get cocky and act with arrogant carte blanche, because there’s a history of that kind of attitude leading to trouble for our people.
There’s a deep message here: our right to conquer and control depends on a certain divine grace, a grace reflected in the eyes of the nations. To the degree that nations have our back, is the degree to which we’re allowed to be autonomous at all. That’s a very authentic jewish religious perspective.
Actually, I think this is a clever propaganda tool to keep straggling lefties with the program. What self-respecting peacenik would admit to agreeing with R. Elyashiv!?
What self respecting leftie ever heard of R’ Elyashiv?
“We mustn’t anger the nations of the world”
What should Israel do when it is not it’s actions that anger the world but the lies about Jews that the “world” willingly accepts?
Any rabbi’s out there willing to tackle this?
“There’s a deep message here: our right to conquer and control depends on a certain divine grace, a grace reflected in the eyes of the nations. To the degree that nations have our back, is the degree to which we’re allowed to be autonomous at all. That’s a very authentic jewish religious perspective.”
It’s a ghetto perspective. It’s a dhimmi perspective. And it’s naive and unworldly. I don’t think there is anything in Judaism that suggests you derive your dignity and legitimacy from people who tell lies about you and treat you unfairly. Or that you accept lashon hara about yourself or your people. What is the point of an independent Jewish nation if you think it should behave like a ghetto Jew groveling for acceptance from its oppressors.
The US has our back. Bush and Rice held back the UN for weeks, expecting Olmert to act like Sharon and drive for his victory (which would benefit EVERYONE who isn’t a terrorist), including the people of Lebanon and Iran. And Olmert acted like Hamlet.
If Israel is ultimately destroyed by Iran and Syria and their appeasers in the UN, its demise will date from that week when the IAF and Bush and the Israeli public were saying “go for it” and Peretz and Halutz and Olmert were fumbling around looking for their car keys. Maybe Rav Elyashiv is one of Olmert’s advisors.
“What should Israel do when it is not it’s actions that anger the world but the lies about Jews that the “world†willingly accepts?”
Adress the world, in the languages of the world, and describe to them what it’s like… that seems to help sometimes, at least when we’re genuinely understood. The truth is there’s alot of international sympathy for Israel, to whatever degree Israel’s struggle resonates with a given individual more than the struggle of it’s enemies. The best way to combat lies is with truth, open and honest, right? Said in such a way as it can be understood, the truth will be believed.
Buut, we are very capable of ignoring the truth-pieces that accuse against us, and may have trouble being honest with ourselves about what is really going on, if it makes us feel bad, or theatens our existence. What are the lies that the world believes about Israel? Are they really all lies, or just incomplete truths, ones that many of us would rather deny or get angry at rather than engage?
“It’s a ghetto perspective. It’s a dhimmi perspective. And it’s naive and unworldly. ”
It’s also basically what Jeremiah and midrash Eicha are telling us, that the real root of our problems are our greed and lack of taking responsibility for the welfare of our friends and enemies, and the arrogance by which we assume we have a right to live.
What lies are being said about us? To the degree that lies are being said, what is the secret truth behind them that compells the liars to “lie”.
Certainly when we’re weak we shouldn’t grovel, not from fear. But when we’re strong, and feel strong, and feel like we have a right and a power to smash our foes is when it might be wise to keep a look out. Our national survival is not nessesarily a divine right, I think Tisha b’av is trying to teach us, and our enemies and accuaintences might be useful as guages for when we might have gone too far. maybe.
For instance, in this last incursion, we killed alot of “innocent” people. It COULD WELL BE that we had to and have to, in order to survive… and there’s still going to be repucrcusions down the road, if not from outside then from inside. And the tendancy of all of us who know that it’s more important that a thousand innocent arab kids die than a single jew is to want to totally ignore that there’s any problem in killing those people, why don’t we just kill some more, and become stronger?
Which is what got alot of OUR people wiped out circa bar kochba, which, to be fair, was a long time ago, but is the paradigm for independent Jewish national strength leading to us getting wiped out, and blamed for our own out-wiping by G-d and his prophets. We will do whatever we do, and there will be consequences. God might command us to kill some kids, but once we do, he’s gonna command someone else to kill ours.
And the truth might be that popular opinion is open and wanting “truth” and that it’s not the lies that are leading public opinion against Israel military actions, but some piece of truth that our national ego wants to ignore.
But for arguments sake, what kind of lies are influencing world opinion about Israel? Aren’t we a racist country, ruled by and through violence? Maybe there’s reasons for that, but is it any less true?
yosef, I totally lost you at Union Square……….