Reform Youth Demand URJ Condemns Israel’s Killing of Civilians
Adrian Shanker and Matt Adler today delivered a letter with the signatures of 48 high school and college leaders to the Union for Reform Judaism (URJ). While gratefully acknowledging the UN-brokered ceasefire, the letter urges the URJ leadership to officially declare its support for a sustained bilateral ceasefire and peace negotiations in the Middle East. The letter decries the killing of over 700 civilians, both Arab and Israeli, during this latest round of fighting. While the students applaud the URJ for condemning Hezbollah, they take the Union to task for not addressing the young leaders’ concerns about Israel’s response. As Reform Jews, the students value the diversity of opinion within the movement, but feel that their pro-peace viewpoint has been excluded.
The letter began as an idea of Matt Adler, the Kesher Liaison to Washington University in St. Louis. Adler believes that “[w]e have a responsibility to speak out when we see injustice- be it Hezbollah firing rockets at Israeli civilians, or the IDF killing Lebanese and Palestinian civilians. People’s lives are not acceptable targets.”
Adler partnered with another college student, Adrian Shanker of Muhlenberg College in Allentown, PA. Shanker is also a Kesher Liaison to his campus. Shanker says the reason for this letter “is not to condemn Israel or the URJ, but rather to make clear that no peace can come from war and that the civilian casualties are just too high.”
The full text of the letter follows.
August 15th, 2006
Rabbi Eric H. Yoffie, President
Robert Heller, Chairman of the Board
Union for Reform Judaism
633 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10017-6778
Dear Rabbi Yoffie and Chairman Heller,
We, the college and youth leaders of the Reform Movement, urge the Union for Reform Judaism to take a stand for the Jewish values of peace and justice by declaring its support for a sustained bilateral ceasefire and peace negotiations in the Middle East.
As the future leaders of the Reform Movement, we heed the call of Rabbi Hillel to “be from the students of Aaron, love peace and pursue peace.” As we see events unfold around us, we look to fulfill our religious obligation by speaking out on the moral issues of our day. As Jews, we declare our commitment to protect our historic homeland, Israel, and to ensure the safety and well-being of its inhabitants. As Jews, we also believe that upholding the sanctity of all human life is of the utmost importance.
In a month of war in Lebanon, over 700 civilians, both Lebanese and Israeli, were killed. During the same period of time, while the world was focused on Lebanon, over 150 Palestinian civilians were killed in the Gaza Strip as well.
In light of these facts:
- We applaud the Union for condemning Hezbollah’s and Hamas’s violent and terrifying rocket attacks on Israeli civilians, who have been put in grave danger by the ongoing conflict. We support the Union’s denunciation of these groups’ destructive behavior, which has harmed the lives of thousands of innocent Israelis and Arabs. We express solidarity with our Israeli brothers and sisters, who are bravely coping with the mental and physical hardships of war. We support and appreciate the Union’s ongoing efforts to ease the trauma of Israelis in this difficult time, as well as provide for their safety, security, and well-being.
- We urge the Union to likewise condemn the Israeli Defense Force’s killing of unarmed Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, as well as its premeditated targeting of civilian infrastructure, which has put additional lives at risk and hampered relief efforts. As we recall, in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, God agrees to spare the cities if Abraham can find even ten innocent civilians. In light of this, we implore the Union to make clear that these actions violate our religious values, and are morally unacceptable responses to Hezbollah’s and Hamas’s provocations. Furthermore, we ask the Union to support humanitarian aid efforts underway in Lebanon and Gaza, in the same spirit of chesed which has guided its support for relief work in Israel.
We are proud to be part of the Union, a movement that has declared its support for the principle of peace negotiations. As indicated by the resolution “Support of the Peace Process,” the Union called on “the United States Government to continue to lend its good offices to the ongoing negotiations for peace” (General Assembly – November 30 – December 3, 1995 Atlanta). The precedent for the Union to advocate for diplomacy in the name of peace has already been set.
We therefore call upon the Union for Reform Judaism to declare its support for a continued bilateral ceasefire and renewed peace negotiations in the Middle East. Only dialogue, diplomacy, and mutual understanding will bring a lasting peace and guarantee the security of all peoples. We recognize that there are a variety of opinions within the movement on the current conflict. As is appropriate for our Reform tradition, we embrace a diversity of viewpoints. Unfortunately, we feel that our voice has been excluded from Union statements and materials, and we ask for inclusion. We look forward to beginning a healthy and meaningful dialogue in the name of peace, here and everywhere.
B’shalom,
College – Kesher
- Matt Adler, Kesher Liaison, Washington University in St. Louis, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Adrian Shanker, Kesher Liaison, Muhlenburg College, Temple Shaaray Tefila, Bedford Corners, NY
- C. Lauren Arnold, Kesher Liaison, NYU, Temple Israel, Memphis, TN
- Sarah Baracks, Kesher Social Action Vice President, American University, Temple Isaiah, Stony Brook, NY
- Julia Baskin, Kesher songleader, Washington University in St. Louis
- Shaun Bernstein, Kesher member, York University
- Isaac Binkovitz, Kesher member, McGill University, Temple Beth Shalom, New Albany, OH
- Nick Burka, Kesher songleader, University of Maryland, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Alex Bookbinder, NFTY member, Temple Har Zion, Markham, Canada
- Matt Carrick, Kesher member, University of Pittsburgh
- Rebecca Dautoff, Kesher member, Wellesley College, Temple Beth Am, Seattle, WA
- Abby Dobbs, Kesher member, Northeastern University, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Meredith Dobbs, Kesher member, Tufts University, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Nate Dumtschin, Kesher Liaison, University of Cincinnati, Vice President AEPI, Temple Beth Or, Dayton, OH
- Emily Flaxman, Kesher member, Yale University
- Chase Foster, AEPI President and Kesher Liaison, Purdue University, Wise Temple, Cincinnati, OH
- Matthew Goldenberg, Kesher member, St. Olaf College
- Ben Gorban, Kesher member, American University
- Natanya Green, Kesher member and fmr. RCVice President NFTY Central-West Region, UC Davis, Congregation Bnai Israel, Sacramento, CA
- Sara Gunning, Vice President Jewish Students Association, American University, Temple Beth Emet, Evanston, IL
- Katie Helfand, York University, Narayever Synagogue, Toronto, Canada
- Stephanie Helfman, Kesher member, York College of PA, Baltimore Hebrew Cong., Baltimore, MD
- Neal Karlin, Kesher member, Towson University
- Zachary Krensky, UNC-Greensboro, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Rachel Levine, Kesher member, NYU, Temple Menorah, Redondo Beach, CA
- Shayna Liberman, Kesher member, University of Michigan
- Bridey Maidhof, Kesher songleader, University of Kansas
- Phil McCauley, fmr. Northern Vice President NFTY Mid-Atlantic Region, University of Maryland, Temple Adas Shalom, Havre de Grace, MD
- Ryan McDonald, Kesher member, Washington University in St. Louis
- Gabriel Merlin, Kesher member, Washington University in St. Louis
- Elizabeth Moorehouse-Stein, McGill University, Temple Emanu-El, Toronto, Canada
- Marissa Patterson, Kesher Liason, Bryn Mawr College, Temple Israel Dayton, OH
- Eric Reif, fmr. Membership Vice President NFTY-Mid-Atlantic Region, Washington University in St. Louis, Temple Rodef Shalom, Falls Church, VA
- Emily Samuels, Kesher member, University of Michigan, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Adam Schloss, Kesher member, Carnegie Mellon University, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Dave Shapiro, Kesher member, Washington University in St. Louis, Congregation Beth Elohim, Brooklyn, NY
- Anna Steinberg, Kesher Liaison, University of Buffalo, Temple Beth Zion, Buffalo, NY
- Amy Tilles, Kesher member, Indiana University, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Kyle Wassell, Kesher member, Drexel University, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Alicia Wolman, Kesher member, West Virginia University
- Kilby Yarbrough, fmr. Kesher Chapter Treasurer, Washington University in St. Louis, Beth Israel, Jackson, MS
High School – NFTY
- Rachel Boochever, CBEYG Programming Vice President, Congregation Beth Emeth, Albany, NY
- Caryn Cohen, BATY member, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- Rachel Eisen, BATY President, Temple Beth Ami, Rockville, MD
- David Gross, Social Action Vice President Texas and Ohio Region, Temple Beth El, San Antonio, TX
- Jeremy Sanders, CBEYG President, Congregation Beth Emeth, Albany, NY
- Rebecca Wolchok, CBEYG Religious and Cultural Vice President, Temple Beth Emeth, Albany, NY
- Dan Zarchy, Pace University, Temple Emanuel, New Hyde Park, NY
Rabbinic Ally
- Rabbi Arnold Jacob Wolf, KAM Isaiah Israel Congregation, Chicago, IL
“We urge the Union to likewise condemn likewise condemn…”
Why should there be a “likewise” condemnation of acts that aren’t comparable? Israeli civilians have died because Hezbollah and Hamas are purposely targeting them. Palestinian and Lebanese civilians have died, in large part, because terrrorists committed to Israel’s destruction are hiding among civilian populations. The harsh reality is that striking back at these terrorists inevitably results in civilian casualties. Would the letter writers have Israel — which has already unilaterally withdrawn from Southern Lebanon and Gaza — simply turn the other cheek as its cities are shelled and soldiers abducted?
When Halutz says that Israel will “blast lebanon 20 years into the past”, none of us think that he means to do it with no civillian casulties, right? And when we drop leaflets, we wouldn’t think that the enemy dropping the same leaflets would be obeyed?
Religious organizations should demand higher standards, and when we fail to meet them we should express remorse and regret. That is called Teshuva.
kudos to the letter’s organizers!
These brave young people are the future of Reform – keep it up!
This kind of news lets me feel a bit of optimism. Maybe I’ll go to HUC after all….
Esther. Iet me tell you i know for a fact the future of reform will have many changes in it NFTY it self will be changing alot this year.be ready for many surprises
In all that fancy language and (selective) quotations of Torah sources, it seems our heroes forgot something pretty important – when you condemn an action, you must have a better idea to replace such action with. If Israel did it wrong, how could it have done it right? Oh, wait, they did offer this:
“Only dialogue, diplomacy, and mutual understanding will bring a lasting peace and guarantee the security of all peoples. ”
Amazing. The age-old problem of evil solved in one sentence by a bunch of kids. Could even kids be this naive? How did the millennia-old religious tradition they seem so proud of fail to reach this solution?
On the plus side, they’re too young to know much of anything. But their “Rabbinic Ally” has a lot of ‘splainin to do.
Man, them kids today…J, you do know how silly and cliched you sound, right?
It’s silly and cliched if the ONLY basis for dismissing something is the age of that something’s advocate. But I gave other reasons for dismissing it. In any case, what’s wrong with cliches? Many of them became cliches for a good reason. Why would we think that people lacking adult experience (especially experience in earning their own keep) who don’t even have high school or college degrees would be the equals of those who do?
J, I don’t think you sounded silly or cliche, for the record. In fact, it was a point well taken.
Unfortunately, I’ve come to a place where I realize that “dialogue” doesn’t mean anything.
three things:
1)Blasting Lebanon 20 years into the past has a lot more to do with teased-out hair, new wave music, cocaine parties and the last vestiges of the free-love phenomenon than it does civilian casualties… Halutz just wants a place to dance to Men Without Hats. golly.
2) do 48 singatures say that much? why didn’t they get 10,000 signatures from all the Reform kids out there? that’s impressive. it’s more of a headline than the stirrings of a grassroots youth movement.
3) before going to HUC, let’s talk.
We also organized a Jews against War in Lebanon group on facebook. It now has about 600 members. We are planning to run an ad in a Lebanese paper expressing our viewpoint in support of the cease-fire, and are working with Lebanese groups to have a partner ad of Arabs concerned about the deaths in Israel as well. We have a secondary webpage at http://jewsagainstwarinlebanon.blogspot.com
PEACE
RJ, i’m really curious as to what you mean
I can’t believe we’re even discussing Reform Judaism…the same movement that rejected Shabbat, Israel, ritual…what, less than 60 years ago???
Reform Judaism…a Judaism for all the Conservative dropouts who want the shul, without the need to do anything about it. Oh, and the services are really…REALLY bland.
Pergonally, I’d rather convert…to anything.
i hope this isn’t the stirrings of a grassroots youth movement — or if it is, i hope someone sits down with these kids and explains the facts of life to them. “give peace a chance” is a lovely idea, in fact is the BEST idea, if everyone on both sides wants peace. if the other side, however, desires your obliteration, then i wish you the best of luck with “dialogue, diplomacy, and mutual understanding.”
so uh…. what about my comment was so offensive that it needed to be deleted? Am I missing something here?
There will never be a shortage of Jews willing to bend over backwards to put other Jews’ necks bare to sword.
Just like Iran will fight to the last Lebanese, liberal Jews will support “peace” efforts to the last Israeli.
These naive naarim (Hebrew or Yiddish fits just as well), have no idea what war is about. It’s about making your enemies understand that they have lost. Civilians get killed in war. And I have no problem, when faced with an implacable enemy like the Shia, to use their own standards for determining who is a combatant. K’shitatcha makes sense here.
I sleep well at night, without thinking a second about the “civilians” in Shia areas of Lebanon who support Hezb’allah, but then I don’t have a problem with us firebombing Dresden and Tokyo.
HEADQUARTERS MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI,
IN THE FIELD, ATLANTA, GEORGIA
September 12, 1864
JAMES M. CALHOUN, Mayor, E. E. PAWSON and S. C. WELLS, representing City Council of Atlanta.
GENTLEMEN: I have your letter of the 11th, in the nature of a petition to revoke my orders removing all the inhabitants from Atlanta. I have read it carefully, and give full credit to your statements of the distress that will be occasioned, and yet shall not revoke my orders, because they were not designed to meet the humanities of the case, but to prepare for the future struggles in which millions of good people outside of Atlanta have a deep interest. We must have peace , not only at Atlanta, but in all America. To secure this, we must stop the war that now desolates our once happy and favored country. To stop war, we must defeat the rebel armies which are arrayed against the laws and Constitution that all must respect and obey. To defeat those armies, we must prepare the way to reach them in their recesses, provided with the arms and instruments which enable us to accomplish our purpose.
Now, I know the vindictive nature of our enemy, that we may have many years of military operations from this quarter; and, therefore, deem it wise and prudent to prepare in time. The use of Atlanta for warlike purposes is inconsistent with its character as a home for families. There will be no manufactures, commerce, or agriculture here, for the maintenance of families, and sooner or later want will compel the inhabitants to go. Why not go now, when all the arrangements are completed for the transfer, instead of waiting till the plunging shot of contending armies will renew the scenes of the past month? Of course, I do not apprehend any such thing at this moment, but you do not suppose this army will be here until the war is over. I cannot discuss this subject with you fairly, because I cannot impart to you what we propose to do, but I assert that our military plans make it necessary for the inhabitants to go away, and I can only renew my offer of services to make their exodus in any direction as easy and comfortable as possible.
You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If the United States submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Mexico, which is eternal war. The United States does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling. This feeling assumes various shapes, but always comes back to that of Union. Once admit the Union, once more acknowledge the authority of the national Government, and, instead of devoting your houses and streets and roads to the dread uses of war, I and this army become at once your protectors and supporters, shielding you from danger, let it come from what quarter it may. I know that a few individuals cannot resist a torrent of error and passion, such as swept the South into rebellion, but you can point out, so that we may know those who desire a government, and those who insist on war and its desolation.
You might as well appeal against the thunder-storm as against these terrible hardships of war. They are inevitable, and the only way the people of Atlanta can hope once more to live in peace and quiet at home, is to stop the war, which can only be done by admitting that it began in error and is perpetuated in pride.
We don’t want your negroes, or your horses, or your houses, or your lands, or any thing you have, but we do want and will have a just obedience to the laws of the United States. That we will have, and, if it involves the destruction of your improvements, we cannot help it.
You have heretofore read public sentiment in your newspapers, that live by falsehood and excitement; and the quicker you seek for truth in other quarters, the better. I repeat then that, by the original compact of Government, the United States had certain rights in Georgia, which have never been relinquished and never will be; that the South began war by seizing forts, arsenals, mints, customhouses, etc., etc., long before Mr. Lincoln was installed, and before the South had one jot or tittle of provocation. I myself have seen in Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Mississippi, hundreds and thousands of women and children fleeing from your armies and desperadoes, hungry and with bleeding feet. In Memphis, Vicksburg, and Mississippi, we fed thousands upon thousands of the families of rebel soldiers left on our hands, and whom we could not see starve.
Now that war comes home to you, you feel very different. You deprecate its horrors, but did not feel them when you sent car-loads of soldiers and ammunition, and moulded shells and shot, to carry war into Kentucky and Tennessee, to desolate the homes of hundreds and thousands of good people who only asked to live in peace at their old homes, and under the Government of their inheritance. But these comparisons are idle. I want peace, and believe it can only be reached through union and war, and I will ever conduct war with a view to perfect and early success.
But, my dear sirs, when peace does come, you may call on me for any thing. Then will I share with you the last cracker, and watch with you to shield your homes and families against danger from every quarter.
Now you must go, and take with you the old and feeble, feed and nurse them, and build for them, in more quiet places, proper habitations to shield them against the weather until the mad passions of men cool down, and allow the Union and peace once more to settle over your old homes at Atlanta.
Yours in haste,
W. T. SHERMAN, Major-General commanding.
NP: Nil Lara self titled
On Deck: Butterfield Blues Band : East/West Live
(funny how the original “white” blues band had two black players and two Jews – Michael Bloomfield, a’h’, and Mark Naftallin. Bloomfield even did an album with Barry Goldberg titled Two Jews’ Blues – albeit with some questionable album art)
I’m waiting for Jewschool to comment on the
Nazi Kikes Out Of Lebanon
rally in SanFran last week.
the SF rally was pathetic, i wouldn’t worry about it. there was a counter-rally of isael supporters right alongside it.
i attended neither rally, but did buzz the after-gathering on my scooter, and noted that the whole thing was sad. looked more, to this observer, like a heavily police guarded carnival on the city hall lawn. there was a FREE MUMIA booth as well as a SOY PRODUCTS NOW stand for crying out loud.
“there was a FREE MUMIA booth as well as a SOY PRODUCTS NOW stand for crying out loud.”
Yes, sounds like the Bay Area I know so well. I lived there for a long time and every demonstration is like that: an excuse for people to vent and publicize their pet issues. And, not surprisingly, after all is said and done these “direct action” politics amount to nothing besides individuals feeling good for participating (venting) and “doing the right thing”. It’s all about “revolutionary” role-playing as opposed to actually accomplishing anything politically.
Left wing Jews today who ignore the Left’s Jew hatred, would have served quite comfortably on the Reich’s Judenrats.
ah right–we ignore antisemitism on the left. i’ve only blogged about it a dozen times in the last three months.
I’d just like to respond to the comment that Reform Judaism is “a Judaism for all the Conservative dropouts who want the shul, without the need to do anything about it.” I was really surprised to see this comment on Jewschool, where in general I find that people are accepting of all different viewpoints. It is actually a gross misconception that Reform Judaism is not as “real” as other denominations, and largely untrue that we “don’t do anything.”
A true Reform Jew is one who studies, learns, and explores to make educated choices about how to express their Judaism rather than blindly following tradition.
For a great example of the incredible thought and care that goes into Reform Jewish expression, take a look at the newly released siddur Mishkan T’fillah.
Yes, there are Reform Jews who just go to shul without putting a lot into it, but I think you’ll find those Jews in every denomination. In my experiences, however, Reform Jews tend to be incredibly active in educating themselves about their Judaism, very involved in social justice work, and just as much “real Jews” as anyone else.
Wow. I’ve seen a new type of hatred in these comments; the hatred of youth (I thought some over 50 were that mean-spirited).
Hey, if we live long enough, we all have our turn at being youth. For anyone to say, ‘look kid, you dumb ass, you’ll grow up to be a cynical, dried up prune like myself someday, so why not save yourself the time, and start right now?’ is really skanky.
For those who attack young folk for having the decency that they do not, perhaps there’s a bottle of Viagra in your medicine cabinet.
Just remember to wash your hands.
“In my experiences, however, Reform Jews tend to be incredibly active in educating themselves about their Judaism, very involved in social justice work, and just as much “real Jews†as anyone else.”
Thanks, Alex. Well stated and quite true. I think this proposal is a bit naive but all the dissing of Reform Jews is wack. If our history has taught us anything it is the need to stand by our fellow Jews, even when we disagree with them. That doesn’t mean we need to support this proposal because it was written by our fellow Jews nor do we need to vote for Lieberman just b/c he’s Jewish but we should not engage in the sort of hateful divisive rhetoric that is rampant on the political extremes.
Remember, the Torah states, “You shall love your fellow Jew as you love yourself – I am Hashem.”
Let me leave out the criticism of Reform. I WILL be glad to criticize the incredible naivite of the signers, who aid and abet Hizbollah and its many supporters. Why? Because it’s complete foolishness.
Israel warned the residents of south Lebanon, south Beirut etc. What army telegraphs these intentions? It COST Israel as it gave Nasrallah time to flee. Israel could have also carpet-bombed much larger areas of Lebanon, and in spite of Jimmy “I hate Jews” Carter, who claimed that Israel was bombing “all of Lebanon”, contrary to the truth, that there were such a small number of casualties bespeaks to Israel’s care to spare lives.
That doesn’t mean there weren’t tragedies, and even one innocent life can be too much. But I don’t see all the handwringing about the grandmother and granddaughter murdered at the Friday night Shabbos table by a Katushya, indisciriminately thrown up by Hez. Or the million Israelis in shelters or fleeing the North, or now that the war is in cease-fire mode, the business owners in the North who are in danger of losing their livelihoods…and all because of Hez.
War IS horrible, but no one asked Hez to bring in 13,000 rockets, spend hundreds of millions building fortresses and bunkers, and even having areas that no one was allowed into, IN BEIRUT. Condemn Israel for Reform humanitarian considerations? Where are the humane considerations for the 3 missing IDF soldiers? For the families affected by the Kassams into Sderot?
The Palis could stop the killing: Give back Shalit, quit firing rockets. What’s hard about that? Lebanon could have avoided the scenario that occured if they had done what they are doing now…putting the Lebanese army in place, the same army they said couldn’t do anything against Hez. (In fact, the reason they might now be able to pull it off is that Hez has possibly lost half its manpower..one of many underreported aspects of this war).
Social justice is a lovely concept, but at times, the rhetoric and ideas are not merely naive, they are dangerous. The enemies of Jews love to read some of the nonsense, like the paper discussed here.
I do not advocate blind support for everything Israel does, but the facts are so skewed by the “Peace Now” crowd, or these college kids, who mean well, but are blinded by their own lack of knowledge and their own biases, that nothing sensible is accomplished.
Rabbi Arthur Waskow has picked this up (apparantly from Jewschool – he’s a fan) and is running with it. “The Prophet Joel, speaking for God, YHWH, the Breath of Life, cries out — :
“After that [a terrible and destructive war], I will pour out my breathing-spirit on all flesh. Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy; your elders shall dream dreams and your youth shall see visions.” (Joel 3: 1)
I am old enough to know that the prophetic dreams of the old may curdle and wither unless the prophetic visions of the young spring forth bold and truthful, filled with hope. Only now, in an outcry by the youth of Reform Judaism to the leaders of their denomination, do I feel my own hopes and dreams renewed in greater strength.”
And:
“My sorrow over these needless war deaths of the last two months was worsened by my sorrow over the responses of the official organizations of the American Jewish community. It seemed to me the light of Jewish truth, justice, and compassion was flickering low.”
Thus writes the Reb in his e-letter today.
I don’t know who disappoints me more – my teacher who is willing to support the sort of moral equivalency expressed in the Kesher letter – because the Kesher-niks are the only people who have had the guts to speak up – or my chanichim in Kesher who are abandoning the ship, as I see it.