The founding fathers' indictment of American policy
Each year NPR has a reading of the Declaration of Independence. This year’s reading seemed like it was an indictment of the last eight and a half years of American foreign and domestic policy (with King George’s part played by his erstwhile stand-in). Give a read:
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
Cheap shots. Tell me how Obama or Clinton are different.
PM-
I am not one to praise any American president (short of TJ) but these words ring more true of Bush than any other President since Johnson and Nixon.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
I don’t see how Obama is YET guilty of these things (yet being the operative word).
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
Really? You think Bush ran America out of the Pentagon? Was Rumsfeld, a civilian, not running the Military with a sledgehammer for the better part of 6 years? More preposterously, you think the day Obama was sworn in that authority was instantaneously transferred back to the White House?
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
I’m not even sure what you’re referring to here. The founders were talking about British dominance of America. Bush made us submit to the authority of another nation? The only thing that fits this description is the United Nations, whose laws, foreign and unacknowledged by our constitution, are now permeating our land’s court systems. Are you saying Obama will withdraw us from that decrepit organization?
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
Where are these “armed troops” prowling our streets? You mean cops? Clinton put 100,000 new police officers on the street, and under Obama, the Pentagon is about to add another 120,000 men and women to its uniformed ranks, as well as expanding every Federal branch of Executive power – FBI, CIA, DHS, etc. Again, what’s the analogy exactly?
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
This refers to these foreign (British) troops, once stationed on American soil, who were not subject to American colonial law. There is no analogy here to the present day.
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
Which Americans have been denied a trial by Jury? The ones picked up by black helicopters in the middle of the night? That’s what we’ve come to? Black helicopters? This isn’t Stormfront last time I checked.
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
This refers to American colonists being dragged off to British prisons for anti-British acts. Which Americans have been transported “beyond Seas” for “pretended offences”? We’re practically releasing foreign military combatants on American soil, affording non-citizen enemies of this country constitutional rights! Saying you’ll close Club Gitmo is easy. Every attempt to authorize funding for such an act has been stripped from legislation by the Democratic Congress, however.
Give me a break, these are cheap shots based on animus and hatred, not policy. Furthermore, even if you believed all those things about Bush, it’s absolutely childish to pretend that our country did a complete turnaround in every single area of policy involved, overnight, as you seem to suggest.
This country still renditions (just as it did under Clinton), still detains, still bombs mercilessly from 60,000 feet, still eavesdrops, still acts to defend and further American interests – just with a smile.
And you fell for the smile?
hehe. you don’t know me very well 🙂
It might help if you hear some of them being voiced by Iraqis or Afghanistanis or citizens of other country caught up in illegal rendition.
Sorry for the demand for creativity.
Lols Aryeh, I was gonna say…if i were an Iraqis this would sounds a real close to the past 8 years of my life.
PurpleMan – Why did you assume Justin was American and seeing this from an American point of view?
blah, “this would sound really close” I apparently can’t think when I’ve just woken up. get with the grammar!
Trista, why would you think this document refers and pertains to anyone but Americans? In such a case, the argument AC and Justin were making goes from ridiculous to nonsensical, and I’ll leave it to you to piece together whatever shreds of sanity remain.
not really. do you think we got our ideas of democracy out of thin air? just because a document was created by americans doesn’t mean that other world citizens don’t find a reflection of themselves in it. how do you think we got feminist critiques if not from marxist critiques? queer theory from gender politics? we see ourselves and our struggles in many different places and borrow from ideas laid out before us. there isn’t anything wrong with that. common narratives that’s all.
a reflection of themselves in it
With all due respect to “other world citizens”, taking a document out of its historical context and waving it around on a pole is how we get “freedom fighters” murdering innocent people.
Furthermore, and more startling, is your seeming imposition of Western ideas on a world once quite at peace without them. Give Marx and rest and reread your Edward Said, or at least Michael Oren.
I’m not imposing anything. I never said that I think western ideas should be placed in every country and every culture. I most certainly don’t think that. In fact, I’m deeply opposed to much of America’s imposition of ideals in other countries so thanks for the offense. I’m simply saying that it is not impossible for people to look at history and feel connected to others through struggle. are you saying there aren’t similarities in oppression around the world? any good sociologist knows better.
“For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:”
What’s this about? Sanctuary city policy regarding illegal aliens?
Luckily for trolls like PurpleMan, we’re not ovdei Obama here at JS. May of us supported him in the election, yes, but we do now recognize his dropping the ball on the military tribunals issue, among many others.
Obviously these trolls have no appreciation for the struggles of our avos.
Obviously these trolls have no appreciation for the struggles of our avos.
You’re a joke.
PM-
Just a slight warning. I, for one, while I don’t like what you have to say often times, appreciate your right to say it. Refer to the small print above the comment box “Users who repeatedly delve into ad hominem attacks or other troll-like behavior will be banned.” You’re dipping into the realm of personal attack and are being a little nasty in some of your comments. Again, we love to see all types of views posted on JS, but we’d like you to be respectful and observe ethical behavior fitting of the mensch I’m sure you actually are. Thanks!
That’s cute. Clearly, I’m beyond the pale and need to be punished for my serious thought crimes against the enlightened sensibilities of the esteemed readers of this blog. Perhaps it’s better to ban me now, comrade, while you have the opportunity. Just a slight warning.
Meanwhile, you demand we negotiate with Hamas.
It’s just priceless… a big ball of fuzzy cuteness.
PM responded to being called a troll by B.BarNavi, by saying “your a joke” and Justin reprimanded only PM. I think name calling is childish, but if Justin was the third grade school teacher of this class and I would see that as unfair.
Saki, there’s more to it than one comment. If you go back and read the last few days, the comments have gotten more and more personal and more and more terse. No one is being banned, it just felt like the last few comments are starting to cross the line.
PM, it’s not about “thought crimes” it’s about being respectful.
I’m totally mystified as to the point and meaning of this post. To be frank, it almost seems bogus.
“He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.”
Uh….. OK. Are you advocating the disbandment of the US military?
“He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.” Huh? I’m not aware of any incidents in the recent past of the US military acting outside of or in contravention to political control. Can you elaborate?
“For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us…” Are American servicemen being forcibly quartered inside the homes of unwilling citizens?
“For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States…” OK, I’m just completely missing this.
“For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury…” Have Americans recently been deprived of the right to trial by jury?
“For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences…” Not aware of American citizens being exported to other countries to be convicted of charges on which they’d be acquitted in America.
Oh, are these all supposed to be the suppressed voices of renditioned terrorism suspects? I’d be interested to research American military activity during the Barbary wars and find out how many pirates (and their protectors) were taken captive by American and allied forces. We could probably do that for every single war up through the current one.
Sorry to burst any deeply felt ahistorical bubbles but kidnapping pirates, terrorists and spies is nothing new. There’s a reason they’re all excluded from the Geneva Conventions.
I have to laugh when reading Edward Said’s name evoked in relation to this conversation. Oh sure, the world was at peace before those big bad Westerners came along. Learn some history, and stop regurgitating propagandist in the guise of intellectualism.
Obama has already done his share to violate the Constitution since January, by the way.