Traitors & Heroes
The NY Times has an interesting story touching upon one of the issues I addressed in my recent post about the Israel/France World Cup preliminary: The role of Arabs in Israel’s success and the manner in which they’re viewed in Israeli society.
Suan and Badir are part of the Arab minority in Israel, a population that comprises about 20 percent of the country’s 6.8 million people. After more than 50 years of conflict among Israelis, Palestinians and the Arab world, many people are looking for something, anything, positive to latch on to. Even Al Jazeera, the Arab television network, posted an Associated Press article on its Web site that said the games had “created an instant connection across the divide.”
Zuhaeir Bahlul, an Arab Israeli who works for Israel radio and TV, told The Associated Press that Arabs feel more a part of Israel, to a point.
“If the state can create more opportunities in other fields, this type of inspiration gives Arabs the confidence to make things happen for themselves,” Bahlul said.
It’s a beautiful notion, but a bittersweet one at that. On the one hand, these people are viewed by Israelis as national heroes and full-fleged members of Israeli society. On the other hand, they’re viewed by their Arab neighbors as Uncle Toms, who find themselves much less welcome than these, their national celebrity counterparts.
“The players are in a unique position because they can communicate with Israel on a day-to-day basis, be liked by the people and be famous,” said Ron Schneider, who was the coach of Israel’s women’s national team until April 2004 and who lives in Boca Raton, Fla. “But I know in the Arab community there is a very mixed feeling for them. It is a very long and slow process. The soccer players are the lucky ones. On the one hand they are famous, playing for the Israeli national team. On the other hand, they are never really part of the team off the field.”
The common wisdom thus being, for an Israeli Arab, even if you win, you still lose. Being a national hero may do wonders for you on an individual level as an Arab citizen. But at the end of the day, it may do little, if anything, to improve the general position of Arabs in Israeli society.
But one can always hope.
Eradicate racism in the stands
By Haaretz Editorial
“Betar Jerusalem’s fans showed this week that Israeli society – or at least part of it – is severely ill, infected with blatant, contemptible racism.”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/p…
Not just Beitar:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/a…
Most of the Israeli populance feel hatred towards the Arabs because they have family and friends wounded and killed by arab terrorists. The Israelis know that the arabs want Israel and support the terrorists.
They further have no outlet legally as Kach and anything similar has been banned.
This “problem” will only grow; its not going away. Its time for us to understand that.
Just like you Moby empathize with the wrong side – the arabs who want to take our land, I empathize with the Jews who want to stay on their own land and who are being attacked every day.
Most of the Israeli populance feel hatred towards the Arabs because they have family and friends wounded and killed by arab terrorists. The Israelis know that the arabs want Israel and support the terrorists.
No it’s not, racist Israelis are racist for the same reasons anti-Semites are anti-Semites. Except our community is in total denial – somehow our racism is *justified.* I’m curious how Joe would explain away the anti-Arab racism of American Jews whose families were not wounded and killed by ARab terrorists, or Israelis in the same position for that matter.
Denial is not just a river in egypt….
Sausage, thats simple to respond to.
American Jews see other Jews attacked. Those Jews are my family. Maybe you don’t consider Jews to be family but I do. We also know what the arabs say about all Jews. There is nothing hidden the arabs say it openly. It would seem that you are the one in denial.
Do American Jews hate Indians? No. According to you that this is a race issue they should hate Indians and Indonesians – but we don’t.
By the way,
I do understand and sympathize with you and Moby to a certain degree. You are kind and really want peace and want to see both sides.
Unfortunately you are closing your eyes to the reality of what the other side is saying and doing.
Being kind to them is ultimately being cruel to innocent kind Jewish people who are being attacked constantly by those you are being kind to.
Even the Israeli government by capitulating, giving in and being kind to the arabs is in reality being cruel to the Jewish people.
Mob,
I was expecting somewhere for you to comment about the consistant obtuseness behind Israeli Arab leaders for continuing to refuse to take a more active part in building the country.
Granted that the Arab kids have a draft deferment, there is also a refusal of their leaders to want to generate a parallel public/national service so that Arabs could ‘voluntarily’ contribute to society. Adallah funded by the progressive New Israel Fund succeeded in getting the Supreme Court to stop certain benefits for ex-soldiers on the basis of inequality. Instead of demanding a similar national service to enjoy these benefits, they sued to have the benefits removed entirely in the name of equality.
For years, blacks in the US were active in the army and sports while still being discriminated against. But they fought to take part in society, not to stay segregated. Unlike the Arab leaders who fight against it.
the response of the israeli arab community demonstrates precisely why the israel hatred of arabs, isnt the same as racism in general.
When jackie robinson was allowed to play in the mlb, it was an enormous source of pride for the vast majority of black americans. This, of course, is because the goal of black americans was to be treated equally, and to be provided the same opportunities as everyone else.
The response of the arab community to these “uncle tom” players, on the other hand, isnt as positive because their ultimate goal isnt to live as equals. If it were the case that arabs had the same goals as blacks, then the israeli arab community would be overwhelmed with pride and joy just as blacks were with first few black players.
Isrealis do not hate arabs because of race, but rather because they are the enemy. Equal opportunity claims are only a smoke screen. they have no real interest in becoming integrated in israel society as blacks did in america.
The argument that virulent hatred of Arabs isn’t racist due to the ‘situation’ can equally be used to justify Arab anti-semitism (and has been).
And BTW, are monkey noises made to black footballers in Israeli stadiums not racist either?
Most of the Israeli populance feel hatred towards the Arabs because they have family and friends wounded and killed by arab terrorists.
This is simply not possible. The suffering of Palestinians and Israelis, put into numbers, generally comes to a ten-to-one ratio, with the Arabs getting the worse end of it. Israelis hate and fear Arab terror in the same way that Americans do: there are terrible attacks, things could happen at any time, but this idea of an omnipotent Arab CIA reaching every single Israeli directly is not physically possible and anyway runs counter to recent trends.
The Israelis know that the arabs want Israel and support the terrorists.
In exactly the same way that the Jews wanted the destruction of whatever host country they resided in: can this really be any stupider? Yeah, they’re only playing soccer as part of a plot to destroy! Soccer, that’s the key! Using your head as it were. Generally Israeli Arabs are overjoyed they’re not living under the PA’s thumb, although since both apartheid and the PA come from Israel trhat’s not to say they’re 100% happy with the nakba either (nor is that to say they want to bomb).
They further have no outlet legally as Kach and anything similar has been banned.
They have guns, especially the settlers. Any time they want to pull a Goldstein they have such an “outlet.” We choose to believe that most Israelis would be disgusted at such a release of tension. It was after all Israelis that banned Kach.
This “problem” will only grow; its not going away. Its time for us to understand that. Just like you Moby empathize with the wrong side – the arabs who want to take our land, I empathize with the Jews who want to stay on their own land and who are being attacked every day.
What would it mean to start referring to it as “the land,” never as “ours” or “theirs?” The real answer cannot be the enthronement of either side of the see saw, it must be some kind of equilibrium that humbles both at the same time.
Sausage, thats simple to respond to.
American Jews see other Jews attacked. Those Jews are my family. Maybe you don’t consider Jews to be family but I do. We also know what the arabs say about all Jews. There is nothing hidden the arabs say it openly. It would seem that you are the one in denial.
Do American Jews hate Indians? No. According to you that this is a race issue they should hate Indians and Indonesians – but we don’t.
I’m very very glad you see other Jews as family. Good boy! But delusions of grandeur are generally a sign of mental illness. In your cause, being the self-appointed spokesperson for American Jewry may indicate a depper problem. Then again, maybe you are just k&y posting under a different handle.
By the way,
I do understand and sympathize with you and Moby to a certain degree. You are kind and really want peace and want to see both sides.
Unfortunately you are closing your eyes to the reality of what the other side is saying and doing.
Being kind to them is ultimately being cruel to innocent kind Jewish people who are being attacked constantly by those you are being kind to.
Even the Israeli government by capitulating, giving in and being kind to the arabs is in reality being cruel to the Jewish people.
The Jewish people are indeed lucky to have such a wise and clear thinking defender such as you. Please give yourself a pat on the back and a cookie on behalf of Me, Moby and the entire tribe!
The other major difference is that in America blacks can appeal to equality. In Israel no such possibility exists because it is a “Jewish State” by definition Arabs must always be second class citizens. Either we have democracy and equality (two things I value as an american), or we have a Jewish state. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, Shmo.
Then again, maybe you are just k&y posting under a different handle.
Sausage
You’re the wurst. That family craziness (once again, let’s try for the umpteenth time to apply your own standards to others: what if all Muslims saw Palestinians as their “family”?) is all Schmo, we couldn’t make it up.
Yusul I know that we can either have a democracy or a jewish state but not both. I’ve said that over and over again.
But Just because I want a jewish state doesn’t automatically imply hatred or racism. Terrorism and bombs cause that.
A Jewish state implies that Non-Jews don’t vote or have a say politically not that they should be hurt.
Sausage you haven’t been very coherent and there is nothing to respond to.
No k&y, that is the whole issue here! That it is Jewish land. It is not just “the” land which implies maybe its ours maybe its theirs… Its not theirs. It was always ours for over 3000 years. This is precisely the problem nowadays with jews. They are full of guilt and even see themselves as thieves.
We have nothing to feel guilty about!
Sausage you haven’t been very coherent and there is nothing to respond to.
LOL, from you that is a compliment. Jews worldwide sleep well tonight knowing you are on watch. Consider us inspired!
Shmo, you are ok with a Jewish ethnocracy? Were you ok with all of the religiously backed monarchies in Europe that continued to kick Jews out? Are you ok with Muslim theocracies? Are you ok with the ethnocracy we called the third reich? I’m not ok with those forms of government because they have a history of expelling, making life VERY difficult (or killing) minorities. Throughout history those minorities were often Jews. Now that we have the opportunity to live as a dominant group in a free society HOW DARE WE act like our oppressors and oppress and expel another minority. If we cannot learn from our own history, our own experience of being stranger, humanity is in a sad state.
OK, all this aside, let’s look at the difficult position that “Israeli Arabs” (I know for a fact that most actually consider themselves “Palestinians within Israel”) find themselves in… on the one hand they are more assimilated and are probably Israeli Jews’ best hope in terms of dialogue with Palestinians.
on the other hand, they generally sympathize with their kin on the other side of the Green Line. They may have already passed over the trying-to-be-accepted-b y-mainstream-society-ty pe stage (analogous to middle-class Northern black folks in pre-civil rights America), and skipped directly to the radicalized ’60s-style Black Panther-type shit, where the most privileged, assimilated representatives of the people showed solidarity with those who were still oppressed. Remember the black Olympic gold and silver medalists giving the Black Power salute during the awards ceremony?
there are problems with Zionism re: non-jewish minorities, but these problems could probably be resolved, given the realtively moderate nature of “Israeli Arabs”… but as long as the ’67 territories are still occupied, as long as the refugee issue remains unresolved, the Arabs within Israel proper are going to generally sympathize with their less-fortunate brethern. As yahudis, those most tribal of peoples, we should be able to relate to and understand this.
Jordan, I agree that the occupation exacerbates the situation, but I don’t think thats the only problem. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Even if you are not outright discriminated against, why would you want to live in a country that was established by people who moved in long after your grandfather, where the national symbols, and more important the national ideology excludes you? If the option of secular democracy exists why should minorities settle for anything less?
Yusul,
We don’t have to take the blame for what other terrible cultures do. Don’t say “if you are a Jewish state” you will kill and murder like other cultures.
Terrible logic.
We can be a jewish state and be kind to people.
Your examples show why we cannot be anything but a Jewish state. All those countries that you quoted don’t like Jews and we better not make the error of letting people who don’t like us control us.
If anything, because of our past we had better make sure that only we can vote and control Israel. Otherwise all the things you mentioned can and will happen in Israel against us.
“Even if you are not outright discriminated against, why would you want to live in a country that was established by people who moved in long after your grandfather”
That’s what Kahane said. But seriously, by starting history at the time of a current Arab’s grandfather or great grandfather is to blindly swallow a big chunk of Palestinian propaganda. History didn’t start in 1881.
Israel is an imperfect democracy with a distinct national identity. Part of that identity is Jewish, but part of being Jewish in the 21st century has nothing to do with religion (baruch ashem). Is France an ‘ethnocracy’ because they banned head scarves? Because there is racism against Arabs in Marseille? Are the British calling for a boycott of French academics?
Stop applying a double standard to Israel and stop arguing with someone who is defending racism.
A curse on both your houses.
They have guns, especially the settlers. Any time they want to pull a Goldstein they have such an “outlet.”
ky,
shouldn’t that mean something? Those thousands of bad ‘extremist’ settlers are loaded for bear, but there are actually not even a handful of events where those ‘wild’ settlers used their guns not in self-defense.
Baruch Goldstein is your messiah. You can bring him up anytime you want to villify settlers.
Thanks.