13 thoughts on “Why Yesha Council’s Demand for a Referendum Is A Waste of Time and Money

  1. Those who believe they know with perfect clarity what God demands in a given situation are either insane or, ummm….Moshe Rabbenu?
    HaShem gave us the Torah. HaShem gaves us Nevi’im, HaShem gave us sages to interpret and seek and reach out to him. HaShem did not give us the ability, as wee little moral animals, to understand him as we understand each other.
    HaShem may have promised us that the land is ours. He also assured us that he would take it away and give it to others when we couldn’t handle ourselves. I presume, then, that you are telling HaShem that He doesn’t really have a choice? That it is ours and he cannot take it away? That’s haughty, ain’t it?

  2. Uh, nooooo….
    I didn’t say that it is haughty to attempt something. I said that it is haughty to insist that you are doing exactly as HaShem.
    More clearly then. It is not haughty to attempt, in a moral fashion, to resettle the land of Israel and create a Jewish state. It is not haughty for a doctor to try to save someone’s life. In both cases, we are led by tradition to believe that we are doing something in line with HaShem’s will. But guess what? We cannot read HaShem’s mind. This may not be the time that He wants us in the entire biblical land of Israel. And, He may be “planning” on that person dying on the operating table.
    Again… To insist that right now it is HaShem’s will that we have possession of the whole of Israel is to strip HaShem of the right or capability to give it to others as He said he sometimes would. I refuse to deny Him that right.

  3. Fine, hKBH said the land is ours. But he didn’t say today. To quote fineline, “This may not be the time that He wants us in the entire biblical land of Israel.”
    That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be here. It means that we ought to stop using the “because God said so” (I’m sorry but this thing with the dash in the word God is so ridiculous) argument.
    Israel’s political decision-making ought to be guided by reason, prudence, common-sense, compassion for human life, and the norms of international diplomacy, and not by people claiming to know what God wants.
    I’m in favor of the disengagement plan, but I’m also in favor of a referencum (assuming it doesn’t stall the time table too much). I think the YeSH”A council would lose, and then they can feel dumb driving around with “haAm Im Gush Katif” stickers on their car, and Israel would be able to live up to the claim of being the only true democracy in the middle east.

  4. The word G-d is written that way to connote respect. If you think it’s ridiculous, that’s not my concern.
    If we have it in our hands it is against halacha to give it away. If we get it taken from us that’s one thing, but to give it away is not our right.

  5. Those who believe they know with perfect clarity what God demands in a given situation are either insane or, ummm….Moshe Rabbenu?
    ————————————
    No – Moshe Rabbeinu was “the most modest of all people” – he would never presume such a thing. At one point (maybe several) he explicitly says, “Wait here and I’ll ask what G-d’s intent is.”
    But the INTERESTING point of all this is: the settler leaders, the Likud MPs who spoke at the rally, and the vast majority of the protesters did NOT take this as their rallying cry – despite Ronen and other leftie’s constantly braying about messianism to discredit the right.
    All of the speakers addressed the central issue: Sharon has betrayed the mandate given to him, without coming before the public to explain this change. He has trashed the structures and safeguards of Israeli democracy.
    The arguments for retaining Gaza (or at least for not exiting it now) are largely predicated on practical short-term considerations, rather than sweeping messianism:
    – unilateral concessions were proven by Oslo to be a failure, to actually have strengthened the hands of the most extreme Arab voices.
    – there is not yet a stable Palestinian leadership to deal with.
    – it is folly to withdraw under fire – as witness the ongoing low level shelling of our northern border after the leftie surrender monkeys got their withdrawal from Lebanon (and we all know that it is only Assad’s fear of American invasion that is
    keeping the lid on Hizbullah).
    – there is actually NEGATIVE pressure from the US – the last thing the US wants is to have Al-Jazeera beam pictures of Hamas terrorists triumphantly entering Israeli villas.
    – there is no rational, practical reason to give away such a huge concession without receiving anything in return.
    And on the other side? Mealy-mouthed arguments about the “rights” of murderous terrorists, and la-la-land bubble-morality about how AWFUL it is to rule over another people – as if Oslo never happened, as if our soldiers aren’t back in these areas because the Pals took every finger we offered – and then tried to bite off the whole hand….
    When Ronen and other lefties talk about how they’re about “realpolitik” – you just have to laugh… like woo-hoo Dems in the US claiming to be “reality based”… lets see you lefties get 200,000 people to come out on a winter Monday night…
    Ben-David

  6. When I read it, G-D said Israel belongs to the Jews as long as they follow the commandments. It was kind of a conditional thing. “Or you will soon disappear from the good land the Lord is giving you.”
    What with the systematic violation of the commandment “you shall not wrong the stranger in your land or oppress him,” which appears a whole bunch more times than “thou shalt settle in judea,” I’m not sure how much longer the hilltop youth will last out there.

  7. the stranger in your land is subject to the 7 mitxvot of bnei noach. if he doesn’t follow them it is an obligation to kick him out. the arabs are not following htme. Also, the stranger in that instance refers to a convert.
    and those hilltop youth will last forever bc they have somethin you don’t – pride in who they are.

  8. You don’t know me. Your attempt to guess about whether I have pride in who I am is therefore worth less than the shit I scraped off my boot before stepping into the house.
    And I wonder why Zionism didn’t start 1500 years ago, if it was such an obvious religious idea. Hmmmmm.

  9. holy terror,
    god doesn’t pick up a pen and write. men and women write. if you saw something written somewhere, that was the work of human beings. get a grip. you’re insane.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

The reCAPTCHA verification period has expired. Please reload the page.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.