Baaad Choice
Dan Halutz is Israel’s next chief of staff. Read the interview with him that took place a few years ago. This person believes that people who criticize the military or question its acts must be put on trial:
What I have to say about those people is that this is a democracy, where everyone can always express his opinion. But not to be a traitor.
Halutz is specifically referring to groups like Gush Shalom who criticized his order to drop a one ton bomb on Salah Shahadeh, an act that killed about 14 (?) people, mostly children. At first the IDF claimed that it didn’t know a priori of any civilians who were there but later this was admitted to be a lie.
“Halutz is specifically referring to groups like Gush Shalom”
Or folks like yourself?
I don’t agree with the whole “traitor” thing…wether it’s agains you or somebody else. But if I was an Israeli, I’d want a chief of staff with balls of brass. Not an airy fairy type like yourself. Your kind do well in coffee shops and open mics. And I appreciate that, I do. But to secure a country in that part of the world, I’ll take the non-politically correct any day of the week. I mean, it’s limbs we’re talking about right?
This is the context, from the article:
“What I have to say about those people is that this is a democracy, where everyone can always express his opinion. But not to be a traitor.”
Are you suggesting that members of the Gush Shalom (Peace Bloc) group who made those comments should be placed on trial for treason?
Halutz: “We have to find the right clause in the law and place them on trial in Israel. Yes. ”
Not very judiciously spoken, but not necessarily what your’e implying, either. The ambiguity is whether Halutz is saying that new laws should be created limiting free speech in Israel, or whether leftists should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of EXISTING law. Looks more like the latter to me. Especially because, two sentences later, the discussion turns to the spray-painting of pilots’ cars, which is of course a prosecutable offense anywhere.
” You wanted to talk to me about morality, and I say that a state that does not protect itself is acting immorally. A state that does not back up its fighters will not survive. Happily, the State of Israel does back up its fighters. This vocal but negligible minority brings to mind dark times in the history of the Jewish people, when a minority among us went and informed on another part of the nation. That must not happen again.”
Judiciously spoken. Amen.
“
“This vocal but negligible minority brings to mind dark times in the history of the Jewish people, when a minority among us went and informed on another part of the nation. That must not happen again.”
J, I double your Amen and raise you a Y’ashear Koach.
oh, I get it… Jews are the perpetual victims, so we can never criticize each other lest we become “traitors” or “informers”.
I’m so sickened by this stupidity I don’t know what to say.
I guess by appointing this guy, the IDF is showing their true colors. Sorta how Americans showed their true colors by (narrowly) re-electing Bush.
“I’m so sickened by this stupidity I don’t know what to say. ”
Hey welcome to the club. Though we’re probably sickened by different things.
“This vocal but negligible minority brings to mind dark times in the history of the Jewish people, when a minority among us went and informed on another part of the nation. That must not happen again.”
Wow, equating anti-fascist Jews with Jews who collaborated with the Nazis. Amazing logic!
Shtreimel, couldn’t have said it better myself. They would probably prefer an apointee like Dr. Phil as chief of Staff or Stuart Smalley (SNL character)… Look back at history at who the greatest generals were and how they won. Civilians are bound to be killed, its simply a part of the issue. By appointing Halutz their probably realizing how grave the situation really is, maybe you don’t perhaps you think the PA will now shower us with rose petals and candies, after all we are pulling out of the territories, we did release 500 degenerates (who will probably go back to their old past time, with newly acquired knowledge, blowing up JEws. Do any of you really think the PA is taking any real measures to stop the violence, or that it will stop, of course not. Rockets will just land closer to major cities, and weapons will be easier to acquire… I would love for someone to explain to me based on history or logic why to think otherwise! Shtreimel, I think we might be related!
DiGiTal,
Nothing to do with blood buddy, it’s common sense. And at times, common sense conflicts with political correctness, kindness, and what’s hip. Glad that there’s somebody else out there who understands this.
It should not always be “common sense” that “Civilians are bound to be killed”. When an action by the IDF kills mostly children and other civilians, it serves no national defense purpose and in fact weakens national defense by giving those whose family members were killed a very legitimate grievance against Israel. Yes, common sense indeed sometimes conflicts with kindness and political correctness, but in the case of taking an action that you know beforehand will kill civilians, it is this same common sense which tells you that pursuing this will only push more Palestinians to the extremist/terrorist side. And kill children.
Amen to that Shtreimel! ONce again, you put to paper (or screen) the essense of what I am thinking. In their pursuit of “political correctness”, they have lost track of reality, and are willing to sacrifice all other ideals to maintain their fragile equilibrium.
WOuld u have agreed to bombing a building Hitler was in in 1942 even at the expense of killing 5000 innocent Germans? Food for thought
Yeah Ben,
I’m sure Israeli top brass have photos of all the nursery’s around Ramallah and giggle while they plot how they’re going to snag some fresh meat.
You American? I can only wonder how many civilians and children have been killed in their search for terrorists the world over. I’m not saying that you’d support this. But the outcry over America’s bombing campaigns are hushed and rarely spoken about.
Gooood Choice!
Halutz’ appointment — the first IAF head to be chief of staff — must be seen in the context Iran’s nuclear program. Halutz, remember, was part of the raid on Iraq’s reactor at Osirik in ’81.
The hit on Shehadeh also needs to be seen in context. It is one of several times Israel sabotoged cease-fire efforts with an assassination — Hamas was in talks at the time in Egypt and was coming close to agreeing to a hudna. Israel felt it had more to gain in keeping the fighting going at that point.
I’d like to hear all the lefties who’ve posted about this *mean* and *nasty* man weigh in about the rights of RIGHT-wingers to assemble, protest, and refuse the draft like Gush Shalom did… speak up, I can’t HEEEARR YOOOUUU!
Whereas the piece/peace camp constantly trotted out the same handful of ‘refuseniks’ (they claimed 2000 but nobody ever saw the roll of signatures) – the Right in Israel has easily signed up 20,000 soldiers and reservists who will refuse to participate in the expulsion of Jews from Gaza.
And no, there has been no right-wing vandalism like the attacks on pilots’ cars.
The leftie Israeli media – which for years fawned all over “correct” lawbreakers from Abie Nathan to the nudnik draft-dodgers – is now full of darkling warnings about “the limits of protest” and “the treasonous challenge to Israel’s rule of law”.
Freedom for me, but not for thee.
Guess our refuseniks aren’t chic enough…
hey ben-david, you asked:
”
I’d like to hear all the lefties who’ve posted about this *mean* and *nasty* man weigh in about the rights of RIGHT-wingers to assemble, protest, and refuse the draft like Gush Shalom did… speak up, I can’t HEEEARR YOOOUUU! ”
You are asking the wrong man if you are expecting me to tell you that right wingers do not have their right. They have their right to assemble, protest, and refuse the draft.
two notes though – Gush Shalom is not a refusenik movement and didnt support them from the very start as far as I knw.
second of all, the violence exhibited from the right and its threats with violence against soldiers that are protecting them not to mention against palestinians, is simply not a right. settlers can resist non-violently though (including refuse to serve), theres nothing wrong with that.
First off, let’s get something out of the way here:
The people wasting there time on blogs (like us) have virtually no clue why Halutz (IAF) is better than Ashkenazi(Golani), except for the fact that one of them needs to replace Yaalon who was given the boot for warning us about the ridiculous retreat plan.
xisnotx,
the IDF doesn’t need a pilot as Chief of Staff in order to bomb some nuke plant in Iran.
Secondly;
I have absolutely no doubt that if Ashkenazi was chosen, the bleeding-heart liberals would find reasons why he’s not worthy either. Why? Because according to them, there is nothing worth dying for anymore. And since the army innately has to deal with death (or life of it’s soldiers and civilians, and those of the enemy), the army is an evil that is good only when painting senior’s homes in Dimona, or teaching slow kids to drive tractors, or frankly just to patrol border’s.
I’d take ashkenazi over halutz any day.
Josh: I think Halutz is very worthy. Doubtless the reasons for choosing him are multi-factoral. Sending a signal to Iran is one of them.
josh: to believe that something is worth dying for is very different to believe that thing is worth killing for.
“Israel felt it had more to gain in keeping the fighting going at that point – xisnotx”
Finally a poster that talks military sense.
“Doubtless the reasons for choosing him are multi-factoral. Sending a signal to Iran is one of them.”
Again, I agree with xisnotx on this move.