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Conservative Movement Issues 'Historic' Statement on Gay Ordination

The Rabbinical Assembly Committee on Jewish Law and Standards has risen to the occasion amidst current criticism of their stance on ordaining queer rabbis, and issued the following statement (emphasis added):

At the heart of the Torah is the concept of holiness (kedushah) expressed in its command, “You shall be holy, for I the Lord am holy.” Flowing from this declaration are policies regulating the spiritual, ritual, social and sexual lives of Jews. Kiddushin, the sanctification of love in heterosexual marriage, is a centerpiece of Jewish life.
For a variety of reasons, the Jewish ideal of heterosexual marriage is unrealistic for many Jews. We emphatically recognize the human dignity (k’vod habriut) of all such individuals, and invite them to participate within our religious communities.
Recalling the Torah’s command, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, I am the Lord,” we rededicate our movement to making its congregations and educational institutions inclusive and welcoming of all Jews regardless of their marital status or sexual orientation.
The parameters of sexual conduct for gay and lesbian Jews, their eligibility for admission to rabbinical and cantorial school, and commitment ceremonies remain the subject of a lively debate within the ongoing deliberations of the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards.
The CJLS last reviewed the issue in 1992, when it emphasized the acceptance of gays and lesbians within congregational life yet upheld the biblical injunction against homosexual behavior. The process will resume at future meetings of the committee.

In other words, we haven’t the balls to ordain queers, and therefore we’re going to keep twiddling our thumbs claiming “slow progress” while they twist in the wind. Mazal tov. And you wonder why your numbers are dwindling? Here’s a reason: You haven’t the baytzim to do something radical and it makes your constituents ill.
This statement was forwarded to me by a handful of conservative rabbis and rabbis-in-training who’d speak up about it themselves but are concerned the movement will ostracize or perhaps even expel them for standing up. Lively debate indeed.
One more reason to reject institutional Judaism. Maybe queer rabbis should start ordaining other queer rabbis outside of institutions. When they become ubiquitous enough, the establishment will likely start acting as if they’ve always been accepted.
Or so reckons Schopenhauer.

38 thoughts on “Conservative Movement Issues 'Historic' Statement on Gay Ordination

  1. damn Mobius how do you even take yourself seriously.the Reform will soon disappear into oblivion,with all their love of inclusivity and assimilation.

  2. soon enough, all “movements” will disappear. and then we can just be klal yisrael. whoa. imagine that.

  3. Dan,
    If you think the Cons movement is failing due to their lack of balls on the gay/les issue, you’ve found some very, very good hash in the Holy Land. Please send some over…quick.
    You’d be closer to the trutht if you’d point fingers at the heart of your post i.e. how PC thinking has eroded/taken over from Torah values in all liberal movements.

  4. man, like shtriemel and alexbmn said you cant actually think that we are losing Jews because we won’t make radical changes. I’m under the impression intermarriage is one of the biggest threats to Judaism. Besides, look at the groups who are losing the least Jews, those who maintain traditional Jewish lifestyle best.
    im not saying we need to take the bad things that come with it but lets not pretent like radical changes would be the end of the problems or even the big ones.

  5. Mo,
    You’re WAY off. First, the reason the CJLS hasn’t decided is because the two big machers on the committee won’t budge, and no one else has the clout to break the tie. As for people being afraid to speak up, this is not something I’ve experienced, as every rabbinical student I’ve ever talked to is willing to go on about this at length.
    As for the movements (any of them) disappearing, you’re off again. It’s easy for a Yuppie (not that I’m calling you a yuppie) to think that the movements are old vestiges of a time long past, but it gets a little more complicated when you want to send your kids to preschool, then Hebrew School, then summer camp. Not that there aren’t non-denom options for these things, but they’re few and far between, and certainly couldn’t handle the whole of the American Jewish community.
    As for the liberal movements are losing touch with Judaism, you clearly can’t see what Judaism is all about. If it’s about Halahka, then it was, and once again is, a dynamic process. History has shown us that only a living, evolving law can survive. If you want to define it as something a little broader, then other movements such as Reform, Reconstructionist, etc. work well. Perhaps you would prefer there to only be Orthodox Jews, with ten-foot mekhitzahs building fences around fences around fences… However, even for the Orthodox, the other movements can act as a “holding” place for a few decades or even a few generations before people return to their roots. If they had gone to another religion, such a return would be much less likely. But the fact of the matter is that it isn’t the movements that impede klal yisrael but intolerant chauvinists who don’t want to examine their own beliefs in the light of others’. These people exist in every movement, as well as outside of them, and it is these people who prevent better understanding in our community.

  6. I have issues with this, b/c it really is a symptom of a bigger issue — thinking that 20th century mores and “enlightenment” about things like the human hypothalamus, genes like Xq28 MEAN SH*T when compared to the Torah’s infinity. Come on, ppl, we’re JEWISH, the Torah says something, who else is going to give a damn but us?
    (However, let’s also remember, the Torah says “don’t have anal sex.” PERIOD. So a gay man, totally gay, rainbow flags and P-FLAG, freedom rings and RuPaul blasting, is a tzaddik until he puts tab A into slot B or has a tab A inserted into his slot B.)

  7. Y-Love: that Jew may be a tzaddik even after/ inserting tab A…etc.
    – or at least a “tinok shenishba” – a child taken in captivity, who cannot be expected to keep commandments he never was taught.
    Certainly this would apply to someone raised to think he was “born gay” and other such nonsense.

  8. Ben-David, you should calculate your index to wring finger ratio…it seems you may have some unresolved issues that science may be able to shed some light on.

  9. my non-denominational jewish summer camp has a gay rabbi or two on our staff…AND we are thrilled to “handle the whole of the American Jewish community.” Send the little pischers on over!

  10. It is obvious just by logic alone that the abomination of homosexuality is learnt and cannot be inborn:
    Just as if somebody likes chocolate and salivates at the site of other good food- we know that that is learned. This was the experiment of pavlov’s dogs. You see, chocalate cake is outside of our bodies. while the desire to eat is internal our knowledge of what we like is learned. Why if you thought that doo doo (forgive the french) was chocolate cake you might also salivate. It is all triggered by knowledge gained by experience.
    So too with this. We have an internal desire. When we reach adolescense if you remember we didn’t really know what to do with it – until someone told us or we figured it out. Once we realized it and thought about it for a period when we saw a girl we might automatically associate the external sight with the internal desire.
    The arousal from the sight of something external such as a guy, or girl for that matter, must be learned. The internal desire is inborn but the association is learned.
    If a person “trains” themselves they can become aroused at the sight of any object! Certainly one shouldn’t do that.
    That is why I say that it simply makes no sense to think that to be attracted to a guy is inborn – even to a girl it is not inborn!

  11. I’m a Reform Jew myself (and my wife is a rabbi), and I too wish we could just be k’lal Yisrael, inctead of splintering more and more. I’m readng a book now that touches on the Reofrmation and the split between catholicism and other Christian movements, and I hope we aren’t headed that way where we will no longer have much to talk about. But how to bring about a union twixt tose who would progress forward and adapt and evolve, and those who would stay where they are? The Reform movement seems to accept all, but it doesn’t go the other way.

  12. Joe Schmo:
    “Why if you thought that doo doo (forgive the french) was chocolate cake you might also salivate. It is all triggered by knowledge gained by experience.”
    Joe do you know doo-doo tastes bad because you’ve eaten it (i.e via experience)? That is GROSS and you are a pervert.

  13. Last, I will humor your silly comment. 😉
    answer: A big part of taste is smell. If it smells bad it will taste bad.

  14. What is the CJLS statement saying? That they once again came up with a bullshit conclusion, or that they are reviewing the decision they made 13 years ago?
    And I’m willing to bet that the stalwarts on the committee don’t want to gain new members if it means giving up values they find important. Why this value is so much more important than every other one is a little curious to me, though.

  15. Joe Schmo:
    “Why if you thought that doo doo (forgive the french) was chocolate cake you might also salivate. It is all triggered by knowledge gained by experience.”

    FUCK BF!
    FUCK THE SKINNERITES!
    FUCK ‘EM!
    that’ll teach ’em.

  16. k&y: Schmo’s theory of homosexuality rests on Pavlovian conditioning (S-R). Operant or ‘Skinnerian’ learning (S-O) is outcome dependent and therefore somewhat different in spirit. Maybe it was John Watson you were wanting to FUCK? (Although I would suggest that it seems you’re already sleeping with Freud.)

  17. Isaac B2, the reform movements customs are hardly different from when one of my Goyisha friends comes over on the holidays and dons a Kippah, and plays Jew for the day. The origins of the movement alone, are enough to turn me off…But alas soon (given the intermarriage rates) there won’t be many reformists left…. Its just sad at the loss of all those Jews

  18. schmo: get a clue.
    There is a cogent psychological explanation of gay identity formation. It has very little to do with Pavlovian conditioning.
    You can force someone to drink a fifth of scotch every day, but unless the drink fulfills a psychological need – they won’t become alchoholic (unless they have the gene that triggers strong reaction to drink – which is common in many alchoholics).
    Homosexuality is a maladapted response to unmet emotional needs and/or traumatic experiences in childhood. 60-80 percent of gays report a childhood pattern of estrangement from father and/or enmeshment with mother. One or both parents typically exhibit marked narcissistic tendencies (in the clinical sense of narcissism). 40 percent of gays report childhood sexual abuse – as compared with 7-10 percent in the general population.
    There is no need for crackpot theories – the science is adequate to explain gay pathology.
    Ben-David

  19. “There is no need for crackpot theories – the science is adequate to explain gay pathology.”
    Ben-David, your ‘non-crackpot’ theory is rehashed Freudian nonsense. Care to provide a shred of evidence for a Freudian ‘scientific’ theory of ‘gay pathology’. By the way, the DSM stopped referring to homosexuality as a ‘pathology’ some time ago.
    There was one interesting study I read a few years ago with a slightly Freudian feel to it. The researchers found that homophobes (like you) were more aroused by gay porn than non-homophobes. The researchers used penile sensors to measure erection levels while subjects watched gay porn videos. (Does that turn you on?)
    Lastly, your arrogance makes you appear very comical to me!

  20. What is chrisitanity other then a reform of Judaism. There are basically three categories.
    1) Torah Jew
    sub 1 Jews inspring to be Torah Jews
    2) Pick and Choose Jews -these Jews pick which laws they want to follow that are convienent to them and the are happy with this
    3) Non-Torah Jews
    Category 3 is where you are going to have a choir in shul, a organ in shul, maybe somedays a electric guitar. Sounds a little like church to me..hmmm
    Homosexuality according to the kaballah is when a male or female soul is placed into the opposite sex body. The indivudual has a greater challenege on earth to supress his or her feelings and live the kosher life.
    Homesuallity in not in no way shape or form compatible with Judaism…and i have the baztim to say that.

  21. Homosexuality according to the kaballah is when a male or female soul is placed into the opposite sex body. The indivudual has a greater challenege on earth to supress his or her feelings and live the kosher life.
    – – – – – – – – – – –
    Could you please cite a source for this often-repeated claim?
    In fact, the Torah does not recognize homosexuality as an identity, it’s just a behavior – just like we don’t talk about “The Adulterer Community” or “The Alchoholic Community”, there is no such thing as “being gay” or a “Gay Community” in the Torah view.
    Yes, sex runs deep and homosexuality is a psychological/soul disorder, but the notion that this is a “misplaced soul” – which implies that gays are “born that way”, which we now know is not true -this is foreign to Judaism.
    Homosexual attractions are just another problem, not an identity.
    It would be reallly convenient for many fusion Jews if the Kabbalah supported gay propaganda myths, but it just ain’t so… unless you can source this Jewish urban legend.
    Ben-David

  22. Last wrote:
    Care to provide a shred of evidence for a Freudian ‘scientific’ theory of ‘gay pathology’. By the way, the DSM stopped referring to homosexuality as a ‘pathology’ some time ago.
    – – – – – – – – –
    It wasn’t just Freud – all the major thinkers of modern psychology described homosexuality in the same terms – arrested adolescence due to emotional deficit or trauma in childhood.
    For evidence you can start here, and here, and here and look around on those websites. Almost every point is referenced to peer-reviewed scientific journals.
    On that first page, notice that the APA – which removed homosexuality from the DSM under political pressure – is now publishing articles endorsing the effectiveness of reparative therapy to heal homosexuality.
    Ben-David

  23. “the DSM stopped referring to homosexuality as a ‘pathology’ some time ago. ”
    Besides Axis 2 definitions, the DSM does more damage than good. And is a better reflection of commerce and PC thinking than mental health.
    More often than not, people who do this: “Freudian nonsense” know very little about therapy and how profound Freud’s legacy still makes it’s way into even the most briefest of counseling. But that’s for another time.

  24. Ben-David, what do you think of ‘intelligent design creationism’ and flat earth theories? Just wonderin’

  25. Hey Last of…
    I don’t know Ben-David from squat, but he’s by far one of the brigher folks on this and that other Jewish site.
    Here’s some wisdom for you:
    Just because something is normal doesn’t make it healthy. Savy?

  26. I learned that from my one of my rabbi who specialized in Kabbalah.
    And who said this was supporting it…but more so explaining it. Homosexualy will still have to “act” like heterosexuals.
    And how do we know that gays arent born gay? Did you take a survey?

  27. Ben David,
    you wote: “Homosexuality is a maladapted response to unmet emotional needs and/or traumatic experiences in childhood.”
    I’m not sure how what you are saying – something about them being psycologically abused as children – contradicts what I said.
    I have no idea why each individual started associating their internal desire with the outside vision of a guy. Perhaps they were pycologically abused like you are saying; perhaps they hung around other guys with these thoughts and they learned from it.
    I was not theorizing as to how they initially started making the association all I pointed out is that even without doing psycological studies it is self-evident that it cannot be inborn.

  28. There is mounting evidence that in time may prove that homosexuality is not learned, but a genetic predisposition that cannot be changed any more than eye color.
    If and when that is proven there is going to be some ‘splaining to do. Of course there are still those who are upset that they evolved from monkeys and do all they can to fight evolution.

  29. “There is mounting evidence that in time may prove that homosexuality is not learned, but a genetic predisposition that cannot be changed any more than eye color.”
    Mounting evidence, huh? Doubt it. Probably closer to the truth would be stating that evidence for both arguements is “even steven”. Additionally, there’s mounting evidence that depression and anxiety is caused by a lack of, or too much of, certain neurotransmitters. Wow. Guess what? Depression and anxiety are going up…up….up. So what are we learning. That while neuroscience and bio-psychiatry can explain the biology behind certain things, they have trouble pointing to the reason the thing is happening at all, or what do with it.
    In the end, Torah values will school ’em. They always have.

  30. Ok, some one please explain to me how people with wonderful childhoods end up being Gay if it has to do with youth trama.
    Also, this thing about homosexuality being learned during formative years. Most people i know don’t discover, figure out, become Gay, queer, bi, whatever, untill way after they’ve reached adolescense, somewhere around 18-25. So I’m confused. My reasoning leads me to the conclusion that all those years of being straight were some what bullshit. They did’nt know what to do, so they were “straight” like everyone else. They were sexually inmature so they just were what everyone else is. They’ve become gay after they were conditioned to be straight and now their old enough to realize it.
    The torah makes it clear, that we are not animals. So all this comparison to Pavlov’s dog’s is irrelevent right?

  31. W,
    I won’t defend the “trauma” reason Ben-David can do that since he is giving that theory.
    You are right it is only after adolescence that any of us get the internal urge.
    But again just thinking about it makes it pretty obvious that seeing an image outside of your body and that image arousing your desire can’t be internal – how do we know what a guy looks like to make that association? If the guy was dressed like a girl then they would not have the desire? It must be learnt.
    Once we realize that we can try to understand how the association arises.
    Most of us realize the different anatomies of guys and girls and we heard it talked about in hushed tones and we “learnt” to associate a girl (if you are a guy) with the internal urge.
    I suppose these other people must have either hung around guys alot and talked about doing certain things until they “trained themselves” so to speak to be aroused by a guy. Who knows, maybe someof them were rejected by girls.
    You are right it all comes after adolescense since that is when the internal desire begins.
    One thing again that is obvious is that association cannot be inborn.

  32. W wrote:
    Ok, some one please explain to me how people with wonderful childhoods end up being Gay if it has to do with youth trama.
    and:
    Also, this thing about homosexuality being learned during formative years. Most people i know don’t discover, figure out, become Gay, queer, bi, whatever, untill way after they’ve reached adolescense, somewhere around 18-25. So I’m confused.
    – – – – – – – –
    1) Very few people from happy families do, in fact, become gay. In large-scale surveys, between 60 and 80 percent of gays describe similar patterns of dysfunction in their childhood home: a sense of estrangement from their father and/or emotional enmeshment with mother.
    And 40 percent of gay men report sexual abuse in childhood or teen years – compared with just 7-10 percent for the general male population.
    So: The vast majority of people living exclusively homosexual lives come from dysfunctional families and/or suffered child abuse.
    2) It’s interesting that you mention people “realizing” they are gay in teenagerhood – more typically, a gay person will remark that “they always felt gay”.
    There are 2 “inflection points” for sexual identity formation: at 2 to 4 years old a boy differentiates himself from mother specifically as a male. If the connection with father is weak or emotionally negative, or if mom can’t let go, that process can be disrupted.
    The other period is adolescence. Up to 1/3 of teenage boys will experience a sexual “crush” on another guy during their adolescence. The vast majority of these guys go on to integrate a normal heterosexual identity – but if they come into adolescence without a strong male identity, or are hit on or manipulated sexually before they are ready, or fail to “fit in” or connect with male peers – they can wind up perceiving themselves as “other” or “less” than male.
    Homosexuality is a maladapted response to these feelings – the imagined gap between self and other men (or the need for fatherly love and male confirmation) is sexualized. Gay men desire what they feel they lack.
    This explains a lot of what you see in the gay world:
    The preoccupation with the external symbols of masculinity and femininity.
    The compulsive promiscuity that parallels a bulimic’s attitude to food.
    The persistence of mental health issues and self-destructive behaviors even after “coming out”.
    There is growing evidence that homosexuality responds to therapy: just like in drug/alchohol rehab, when the underlying needs are satisfied in healty ways, the compulsive habit – in this case attraction to the same sex – diminishes on its own.
    Hope this clears up your confusion.

  33. “So: The vast majority of people living exclusively homosexual lives come from dysfunctional families and/or suffered child abuse.”
    This conclusion is based on a bunch of correlations. No direction of causality has been established. Therefore your conclusion does not address the issue specifically nor is it generally based on a ‘scientific’ methodology.
    Then you make a bunch of weird generalizations and analogies that, in my opinion, reveal much more about you then the nature of homosexuality.

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