If it’s “art” where are the men? (I.e. naked not ogling men, Mobius).
Up with Suicide People! Equal Jerk-off time for Everyone!

i think i’m just going to start banning people who do nothing other than talk shit. and i think i’m going to start with you.

Hey, I just want to jerk-off to some naked suicide men. I have absolutely no problem with jerking-off or porn.
And weren’t you sort of teasing this Esther person? Suggesting that she was not as ‘cool’ or hip as her naked, Suicide Girl counterpart? As usual, you started talking shit and now have trouble taking a little back.
As I see it, I am merely defending a disparaged woman with humor.

‘puhleeeeeeze’ seems to be your prefered nonanswer to uncomfortable questions.
And are these Suicide Boys naked and intended for consumption by straight women? They don’t seem to be prominently displayed on the site.

Shir haShirim is way more erotic than Suicide Girls. And it is one of our holiest prayers.
When did Jews become so Christian? This whole discussion was so Puritanical. Why would anyone argue against Katya showing off her beautiful body? That is so insane. Every needs to have more good sex and they won’t be so damn uptight.

“Besides, a girl hasn’t made it as a writer until she’s got people making fun of her…”
If only Mobius were so wise…

Hi everyone. When Mobius asked me to join as a blogger for Jewschool, I anticipated that there would be mixed responses to my presence, including, in no small part, negative ones, but I told him I would be happy to do it so long as he could assure me that at least a few readers would be interested, or at least willing, to hear what I have to say. I am here to see what I can contribute to and learn from this communtiy, not as a proponent of the SuicideGirls website, but it is a big part of my life, and something I’m happy to discuss, debate, or answer questions about should anyone wish to do so, although it’s been talked to death recently following the Pesach Pr0n post. I intend to treat everyone I come across here with respect, and hope that they will extend me the same courtesy. I am very excited to be here!
Moriah, I read the article you’ve linked to when it was first published in Bitch magazine during my senior year of high school, at which time I knew nothing about the site. It stayed somewhere in the back of my memory, and when I discovered, perused, and ultimately became involved with the site over a year later, I quickly discovered that that article is not at all an accurate depiction of the site. I realize you probably aren’t particularly interested in hearing this, but I thought I’d let you know.

daniel said “Every needs to have more good sex and they won’t be so damn uptight.” with all due respect, daniel — i am married and have a thoroughly satisfying sex life. i’m all for T&A in the right context but passover-themed centerfolds make me a little seasick. they just don’t go together IMHO. jewish porn is not alluring to me, it feels incestual and gross. which is not to say that jewish women are gross, because they are wonderful and beautiful and i love them. to see them like that, all splayed and humiliated (even if they don’t see it as humiliated), makes me sad, tho’. i am humiliated when i see that photo, not aroused. and i don’t buy all the ivory-tower pro-porn neo-feminist claptrap about how the girls of porn enjoy and celebrate their own subjugation, how porn can be all about female empowerment over the patriarchal system. in my opinion, porn/erotica subjects are slaves who have gotten so used to slavery that they think that they enjoy it, and defend it, and CHOOSE it. i’m not blaming their slavery on them. our society has definitely heaped it upon them, but they are not powerless to stop themselves. they just choose not to, because our society has fashioned shameless self-exploitation into an appealing, hip, care-free lifestyle option for young people — who wouldn’t want that? they have the right, they have the freedom, they have the choice, that’s fine, i wouldn’t take that away from them if i could. i just ultimately think that mobius is confused about what he wants from judaism. that’s the main reason i posted what i did. he’s got like a million other web projects going — why this had to go on jewschool, i still can’t quite figure out. but as shtreimel so eloquently indicated, it’s his page, and if we like it/him, we’ll stick with him/it. personally, i think mobius should pick a path and stick with it for a while, not toggle endlessly, just to see what it feels like for himself.
In terms of SG… while it’s true that the culture/tech/music articles are interesting, informative, quirky and somewhat lettered, the ‘erotica’ community seems to be a meeting ground where the fucked-up girls of the world get together and comiserate about how great it is to be fucked-up together. i’m not saying that there aren’t a bunch of intelligent, thinking, creative girls who post to the site. you can be intelligent, thoughtful, creative and emotionally/spiritually troubled at the same time. they seem to be celebrating their own (and each others’) brokenness, which doesn’t seem all that positive or healthy to me. maybe that’s why it’s called SUICIDE girls… hmmmm… it’s like, “we’re all depressed and broken! the world is meaningless and random and fragmented to us! look at our tits!” porn with intelligence is still porn. porn without the industry is still porn. anyway, i mean this posting not as rebuke or judgement of Fenchurch or any of the other SGs, just as a cultural observation and statement of personal preference — i cannot conceptualize of a woman that takes nude photos of herself for the enjoyment of masses of faceless strangers not having self-esteem issues. but i am open to hearing of one that doesn’t… if her explanation truly comes from the heart, and not from a pulpit/soapbox.

Mob,
I just refreshed the page and almost had an epleptic seizure. What’d ya do to the design. Seriously…I almost can’t look at the page anymore. WAIT A SEC…..

IMHO Jewschool should Ban Suicide Girls and the word Ni**er.
Chag Sameach

Porn is to Capitalism as Erotica is to Leninist Communism.
The first category relates to aspects of human nature as it is, including all it’s inherent ugliness.
The second category relates to the bullshitty (but perhaps necessary) absurd over-intellectual and repressive response to that inherent ugliness.
People, cast off the shackles of your soulless Hipster radicalism! You are living in a dreamworld!

Like me, this chickie is from Tidewater. I love her already.

I’ve been reading the comments in this site off an on for a while now, and usually the debates are thought provoking and fun. However, I really don’t understand the point of this debate. Fenchurch here is a model for a erotica/porn site called suicidegirls (I frequent it off and on, though I can’t see the pictures, cuz I’m too cheap to pay for porn ;-)). Maybe it’s because I’m from Montreal and we ‘re more laid back here, if you feel that pornography exploits and debases women, why don’t you just ask Fenchurch if she feels exploited and/or debased or to ask her if she’s encountered women who have felt debased and exploited? Seems like a more logical solution than endlessly speculating from the outside about what it is like be a nude model.
Incidently, I don’t exactly follow the point of the arguement about male masturbatory purposes. I’m quite sure most women who are in such an industry are aware that men will become aroused by them and masturbate. I think the knowledge that one’s body is beautiful enough to draw and cause such an extreme reaction in men is extremely empowering. Here in Montreal women frequently wear mini-skirts and tank tops that draw stares and gasps from men. Heck, I’ve had friends who have distracted men to the extent that they slam headfirst into stop signs. She is very amused and flattered by this to say the least.

Yeah, whatever. Jewlicious has the Muffti and he’s naked nearly all the time…

Shtriemel wrote “No, JS has that effect. Actually that would make an excellent fringe fest play…”
Hey Shtriemel you feel that you need the love of the Morons of this site? The “mufti” who thinks the porn is good exactly what you have been yelling against. So you need to ingratiate yourself by agreeing with his stupid comments?
To you Jewish girls,
The reason what you are doing is wrong is not all the psycological reasons in all these posts, although there is also some validity to it.
But that is not the real problem.
The real issue is that you are leading others and yourselves to lust, thoughts and finally sin. Don’t be foolish- in the end it is only the strong Yetzer Hara of people that draw them to look at naked bodies; When we were kids before adolesence we were repulsed by this-it only became attractive after that. Think about that.
What you are doing is bad for them and bad for you.
You are causing both them and you to have these thoughts stay with them well after they stop looking. They (and you) are now quicker to arousal and quicker to sin
-because of you.

“Tzniut is misogynistic bullshit, directly related to the wearing of Burqas by orthodox muslim women”
Wow Brown, you’re much better at slinging shit at Israel than you are at understanding even the most elementary forms of Tzniut. But I’m sure those pseudo-feminist lines work for you when you attend those ISM mixers.

Wow. some of you people are really self-righteous. Joe-what’s wrong with striemel loving his fellow man? do you think you are superior because your observance is a bit stronger than someone else’s. That to me, debunks everything you do. Education is one thing-condemnation is another. And don’t blame the girls for this horrible sin that you speak of men commiting. If someone commits a sin, it is of their own free will. Nobody can force anything on another human. Its not going to happen.Ultimately we make a choice for every thought and action that we create. That choice is a personal choice and has nothing to do with anyone else.

yeah anti-, since a post such as yours is so intelligent.
just on serious question though-why seven Chumash?

“You’re the descendent of royalty; the Princes and Princesses of Israel. Act like one.”
Like the Hasmoneans. A truly righteous example. But seriously, folks…
Thankfully, a kernal of potential remains within the state of Israel and the Zionist movement to deliver us from the nonsense of monarchy and messianic mishigoss.

See what Sol commented below by that picture.
See the way an outsider, someone normal, would view this.

Digital —
I seriously doubt that Mobius expects putting me on the site will endear me to him enough to break up with my boyfriend and fly to Israel. But thank you for the welcome. I am familiar with Jewish loquaciousness, I encounter it at every family dinner 😉
chazarmaveth,
While I disagree with most of what you said, it was very well-thought out and, for the most part, articulate, and I would very much like to respond to it (not from a pulpit or soapbox), but in all honesty don’t have the time right now to give you the response you deserve. If you’re really interested, I’ve addressed some similar issues in response to shtriemel in the thread about Katya (Pesach Pr0n), or I may try to come back and speak about it with you when I have some more time on my hands.
shtriemel,
Thank you again for the kind words, shrouded as they are in contempt for some of my lifestyle choices. I’ve enjoyed our debates, and your ability not to discount what I have to say despite your beliefs that I do not fully know my own motives.
Axl,
Asking me will not suffice for most of the instigators here because they believe that I am so enslaved by modern ideas of sexuality and objectification that I don’t realize I am being debased and exploited. I’ve abandoned most discussion on this point as my protests fall upon deaf ears…it’s very difficult to convince someone who believes you are too naive and/or too lacking in self-esteem and full of desire for attention to know why you are doing something that this is not the case. That was a very convoluted sentence, I hope my point is clear…regardless, I appreciate your support, and you make an excellent point about the relativity of modesty.