Israel, Politics

Porush may be on to something…

Usually I’m not on the same page with the United Torah Judaism party but now this:

“Sharon greatly reminds me of the Italian Benito Mussolini. Mussolini also left one party and established his own. He also served as prime minister until he founded a dictatorship and became a duce. Sharon is already talking about a presidential regime in order to do whatever he feels like with the state. Duce Sharon.”
— MK Meir Porush (United Torah Judaism)

Hat-tip to Yeshiva Orthodoxy
Flashback to 2002: “Gianfranco Fini, Italy’s right-wing deputy premier and a former admirer of fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, has been invited to Israel.”

13 thoughts on “Porush may be on to something…

  1. Matt, according to my grandmother Kadima was the name of her hadassa group or something of the sort many years back… whats your point?
    Zionista, no palestinians were put on trucks and driven away under Sharon but there was quiet transfer that took place along the path of the wall.

  2. Cults of personality work both ways, as worship or demonization. Sharon is neither messianic nor satanic. There is a legitimate issue over his government’s violation of a settlement freeze under the Road Map, but he did not transfer Palestinians from the territories under cover of the US invasion of Iraq, as some had predicted. And he did withdraw troops and evacuate settlements from Gaza. Conflating Sharon with Mussolini’s fascism is not productive.

  3. The fact that the name “Kadimah” is related to a Nazi slogan is surely omenous enough, but Mussolini’s goal was not to found a political party that would establish a middle ground between the right-wing parties and the left. His stated goal was a revolution to destroy all corruption and decadence (which he probably saw as stemming from anyone who opposed him) and establish a new order on the ashes of the current Italian establishment. He barely even used the Democratic process. He was appointed after his buddies marched on Rome mainly because parliamentary members liked that he and his fascist goons beat up union laborors.
    It’s established that Sharon has combined moderate elements from both right and left wing parties in order to have a legitimate centrist party. Plus, he attained his position of power by being elected the people and not forcefully taking it.
    How can you make such a bold statement suggesting that he has made a such a move so as to strip all autonomy from any bodies of power both within and outside the government? How is it possible that you have been left so completely unsatisfied by Sharon’s withdrawal from Gaza and his pseudo-commitment to pulling out of the West Bank that you should support horrible statements comparing Sharon, a democratic leader, to a horrible fascist?

  4. “Matt, according to my grandmother Kadima was the name of her hadassa group or something of the sort many years back… whats your point?”
    Well that just proves that Hadassah is a fascist organization. Nothing wrong with that, Nazi.
    I recently saw something in the news about that. Tommy Lapid was just a little upset about that. That’s all. I don’t think that it’s a big deal. I shouldn’t have even responded to Brown’s off-the-wall post.

  5. Just think how silly those sharon = hitler posters are going to look in a few years. Some are still hoping he goose-steps his way into the archetype they believe him to be.
    As soon as the implementation of the wall commenced, I told friends/ colleagues that Sharon will go down as Israel’s finest politician. Most balked and called me a quack. They were so confident that Sabra & Shatila II would occur, they didn’t notice, or purposely ignored, the drop in terrorist attacks.
    Must suck to be a wacky leftie these days, huh Brown?

  6. I think these comparisons are generally made by people who have no other basis for them than personal dislike of Sharon. Comparing him to a fascist dictator is a self-discrediting statement.

  7. I’m not fan of Sharon, but he’s nearly certainly going to be a partner in the next coalition, whether it’s headed by Labor, Likud, or his party. The charge of fascism is ridiculous. Is Bnei Akiva a fascist movement, too? I remember a song that started “Kadima, Bnei Akiva” (I don’t remember any of the other words). Do they wear black shirts in United Synagoge Youth? (see http://www.usy.org/kadima/)? Weren’t the fascists in favor of killing the diabled? I know a group named Tsad Kadima http://www.tsadkadima. co.il/) that helps children with cerebral palsy, doesn’t sound like something fascists would do.
    According to Tommy Lapid, “Whoever chose the name ‘Kadima’ was ignorant of Italian and ignorant of history”. Now it’s interesting to see Porush and Lapid on the same page about anything (and I think both are truly concerned about loss of influence – Porush because if there are three big secular parties, Likud, Kadima, and Labor, they may be able to leave him out of the coalition, and Lapid, because Kadima may take centrist votes that otherwise would have gone to him), but at least Lapid was saner about it. I don’t think that the average Israeli knows more about Mussolini than that he was an ally of Hitler, certainly not what his slogan was.
    But today in Italy, when someone hears “avanti”, do they think “fascism”, or does it just mean “forward”? Was the Billy Wilder film “Avanti” http://www.imdb.com/ti tle/tt0068240/) about fascism? I didn’t see anything about it in the IMDB synopsis.

  8. Godwin’s Law:
    As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
    Although the law does not specifically mention it, there is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.
    -From Wikipedia
    I guess in this case you could substitute Mussolini for Hitler, because the above mentioned comparison is attempting to do the same thing as a comparison to Hitler would (who honestly is going to defend Mussolini?).
    John, I would suggest looking up the definiiton of fascism before making such a comparison. The economic policies of the State of Israel alone debunk that theory.
    Look, I understand you don’t like Sharon (neither do I) you don’t like many Israeli policies (neither do I) and that you have a fundamental problem with Zionism. That’s cool. But, creating a ridiculous comparison by relying on a quote from an Israeli politician who clearly, if he saw what you did with his quote, would reject that comparison, you’re being a little dishonest, not honorable for taking a courageous stand.
    But, hey, that’s my two cents.

  9. Jared – I’m a little bit perplexed by what you wrote. You say that you think MK Porush would reject the comparison. Yet what do you think he meant by “Sharon greatly reminds me of the Italian Benito Mussolini” then ?

  10. What I meant was he’s making the comparison probably because he’s angry about disengagement. You’re making the comparison to delegitimize Sharon and Israel. I doubt that’s what Porush wants to do.
    By the way, just to clarify, in no way did I signify that Porush was any more correct in his comparison. Godwin’s Law applies just as much to him as it does to you. I just remember when people were drawing comparisons to Hitler during disengagement and I remember how ridiculous they all sounded. Disengagement was A) a good thing B) very practical C) violated less human rights in removing settlers than prolonging an occupation on a population that certainly did not want settlers there.
    My argument, therefore, comparisons between legitimate politicians and real Nazis/fascists are so fake and only serve to limit debate.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.