Whistling Dixie

So after a ‘lil Google sleuthing, I’ve pieced together a bigger picture of just who exactly is behind TrueJewschool.
As the whois record for the domain notes, the site is registered to Ms. Dixie Lawrence. A basic search on “Dixie Lawrence” revealed that one Ms. Lawrence a) runs an adoption agency in Louisiana and b) is a major pro-life activist.
However I can’t be precisely sure this is the same person because, oddly enough, there are three Dixie Lawrences in Slidell, three in Gonzeles, two in Prairieville, one in Shreveport, one in Alexandria, and one in Pearl River.
A search on “Dixie Lawrence Jews for Jesus” led me to a post on Yahoo Groups tying one Ms. Lawrence to a Jews for Jesus ministry, also in Louisiana, called Hope of Israel Ministries. You might notice the giant photograph of 50 Shekel on their homepage. Lawrence is listed on their contact page as the organization’s webmaster.
A whois lookup on hopeofisraelministries.org revealed that the domain is also owned by the same Dixie Lawrence, as is aviadshalom.org, which carries the same photo of ol’ 50.
Google also revealed that Shekel had a link to this ministry on his own website, though it’s recently been removed.

Interestingly, it appears this ministry is not linked to any major Messianic Jewish organization or federation, such as The Messianic Jewish Alliance of America, The Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations, or The International Federation of Messianic Jews (who knew there were so many out there?!) and is an independent entity with no “weight” behind it. Ie., if I wanted to sue them — which I don’t and which I’m not going to — they’re sitting ducks, essentially.
My speculation is that after Cohen came out as a JFJ and it was publicized in the Christian press, these people approached him about shilling for them. This TrueJewschol plot was clearly hatched as a collaboration between the two, whereas the site only came to my attention after its banner (which initially bore Jewschool’s logo) appeared on Cohen’s homepage.
So much for his claims of innocence in the comment thread of the previous post.
*** UPDATE ***
Essentially, Ms. Lawrence claims that:

  1. Their ministry has had a learning program for 3 years called True Jewschool despite there being no mention of it anywhere on any of their websites (compared to karate classes which enjoy high prominence).
  2. That they have nothing to do with Aviad Cohen, aka 50 Shekel, despite a) his face being plastered all over their websites, b) using his slogan against Jewschool, “get schooled or get fooled”, c) TrueJewschool first debuting on Cohen’s homepage with no references to the site existing anywhere else on the web, and e) Cohen’s link to their ministry mysteriously disappearing from his website in the last few days.
  3. That they are not missionaries, despite Louisiana Messianists’ reputation for proselytizing to Jews at Tulane U and other regional campuses.
  4. That an innocent 15 year old w/Down Syndrome, who’s a big fan of Cohen’s, created the graphic.
  5. That despite seeming to be an obvious swipe at Jewschool that falls in-line with Cohen’s constant pronouncements that we are not “true” Jews, this is no more than a mere coincidence.
  6. That this young man is the boyfriend of the Lawrence’s 14 year-old daughter who also has Down Syndrome and is a big fan of Cohen’s music herself, despite being legally deaf.
  7. That Lawrence’s daughter forwarded Cohen a link to the site, despite Cohen’s own claim that “I just found the site and linked to it.”
  8. That since their “synagogue” was destroyed in Hurricane Katrina, this is insult being added to injury.
  9. That they’ve been receiving threats from Jewschool readers who got their phone number from the whois record I linked to.

To be honest, I don’t know what to think. I assure you I’ve intended no maliciousness and I would never advocate that this woman be harassed or threatened. And I really do sincerely feel for her in her situation. We just did a fundraiser for hurricane victims in Louisiana. The last thing I’d ever want to do is make things worse for them!
However, the whole thing seems so damn suspect! What are the chances? This kid would have to be an obsessive 50 Shekel fan carrying out his heroe’s vendetta!
It seems so entirely far-fetched, even if plausible. Maybe I’m just a jerk who jumped to conclusions. But does this not look like a trap for me to walk right into? And aren’t these kinds of smear tactics par-for-the-course for Messianic groups? Aviad Cohen is a master public relations strategist. Just take a look at his press page. He doesn’t even have an agent—he does his own PR.
Call me paranoid, but if you don’t smell the rat, you need your sinuses checked.
All in all, this leaves me drawing but one conclusion: Aviad Cohen’s fans are, quite literally, deaf and retarded.
[Update] The Forward reports, Jewlicious amuses, and Aviad Cohen implores me to accept Yeshua into my heart. Fat chance there.
This thread has been closed.

124 thoughts on “Whistling Dixie

  1. “I wanted to sue them, they’re sitting ducks, essentially.”
    Intellectual property lawsuits, banning people from your website-what has happened to you? I thought you were an anarchist of some sort.
    Sounds like someone has gone corporate

  2. As far as I’m aware copyright law doesn’t really apply if images logos and the like are used for purely artistic or satiristic purposes and which have no direct financial gain or profit as a result of the copyrighted material – as long as there has been some changes made to the material – This is especially if the author of the reproduced Art or Satire agrees to take down the offending material ASAP – there really is no case for suing for intellectual copyright infringement. You may want to think of a different angle – but (can’t think of any) so I’ll let the Jewschools Jewish law professionals come up with something.

  3. this wasn’t intended as satire, at all. its intention is to missionize to jewish audiences while trading on jewschool’s name and notoriety.
    they did take down the material immediately after i called them out on it, and like i said, i did not, nor do i want to pursue legal proceedings against them.
    and um, ab, eat me, seriously. how many times do we have to go over the difference between being an anarchist and providing a free-hate zone? or the difference between non-commercial use as approved for education purposes and the devious use of someone’s original works in order to promote something they stand against entirely?

  4. max-
    legally, most of what you said is not correct, or only partly correct.
    For starters logos generally (although not always) are registered as trademarks, and not copyrighted. The two (copyright and trademark)have distinct laws and rules, and dont really serve the same purpose.
    That being said, mobi had a weak case even if they didnt remove the menorah logo.

  5. “how many times do we have to go over the difference between being an anarchist and providing a free-hate zone? or the difference between non-commercial use as approved for education purposes and the devious use of someone’s original works in order to promote something they stand against entirely?”
    Listen, you can couch what your doing in any friendly phrases you want. The fact still remains that you ban people from your site, and you were considering pursuing legal action on an ip infringement, that was tenuous at best.

  6. Mr. Mobias, I have sat, watched and kept my mouth shut over this ridiculous venom, but it is now time to put an end to it. While you are “investigating” please call the Louisiana State Bar Association and confirm that Richard M. Lawrence is an attorney. I am also the husband of Dixie Lawrence whom you are publicly slandering on this site.
    My wife has been in tears over this, I am just furious. Threats have been made, threats of physical harm, lies have been told, you’ve gone too far.
    TrueJewSchool is the name of a study group my wife has held for 3 years in our home on Friday nights. We live in Slidell, Louisiana and our shul was located here in Slidell. Our shul was destroyed by hurricane Katrina as were the homes of so many of our congregants. In order to attempt to keep our congregation together, the shul decided to put up the web site. Since it has been called True Jew School for 3 years and since it is not a rambling, hate-filled site such as yours but a place for study and worship, I hardly think it has anything to do with your site.
    I wish to further shame you by telling you that the logo was designed by a 15 year old young man who has Down syndrome – he is our daughter’s boyfriend (she also has Down syndrome). He is far too sweet a young man and far too innocent to have known that copying it from your site was improper. He did a google search for ideas and came up with it. When it was brought to my wife’s attention that it was copied from your site, she changed it immediately.
    I am a bit disturbed that no one from your site bothered to contact my wife about this, rather you allowed your posters to make violent threats, even threatening her well being. Now you are attempting to slander her with further posts.
    AviadShalom is a book store, also part of Hope of Israel Ministries all proceeds are donated to the congregation. Hope of Israel Ministries, despite your false statement to the contrary, has no connection whatsoever to Jews for Jesus.
    My wife did indeed operate an adoption agency for many years – the largest agency in the entire country specializing in the placement of severely handicapped children. She is and was a pro-life activist – speaking out for those she feels cannot speak out for themselves.
    As for 50Shekel, you will have to blame our daughter for that one, my daughter and her friends are Messianic Jewish teenagers who LOVE 50Shekel – I am more of a Marty Goetz person myself. Her mother could hardly set up a web site without including my daughter’s favorite star. We have never had the privilege of meeting Mr. Cohen but perhaps something can now be arranged as he has contacted us by e-mail and apologized for YOUR site’s disgusting behavior.
    Now as for discussing lawsuits. Remove all references to my wife and leave her alone. Those of us who have lives through the devestation of hurricane Katrina, have suffered and lost quite enough. You’ve already made a huge fool out of yourself.
    Does your mother know you behave this way?
    Richard M. Lawrence

  7. mobius – I thought it was funny – that makes it satire for me – maybe you’re too close to it to see that – it is – in a way, quite satirical – just my view. have you seen http://www.theboard.org.uk/ if you were a member of the Board of Deputies – I garentee you’d be just as pissed as Mobius is with 50shek’s JFJ copy.

  8. first off
    if dan wanted to sue the shit out of these people and give all the money to tzedaka i think that doesn’t go against his intellectual property stance at all…because of what Jews for Jesus is.
    these people sucker defenseless souls into believing into Jesus, creating an insidious blend of Judaism and the Christianity that has massacred so many Jewish people. so many of our ancestors were brutally murdered for refusing to convert to the Christianity that they are now pushing upon us with brotherly love. They go to the Russians inBrighton Beach that just get off the boat, knowing nothing about Judaism, and preach to them that this hybrid is what Judaism really is.
    it’s another evil trick of the church, the Calvary Baptist Church and its offshoots to be specific, and whatever Daniel can do to be a thorn in their crown hyukhyuk i think is a worthy venture if he so chooses to.

  9. hey Mr. Lawrence…if that’s the case, then why the hell did you have this very Jewschool’s logo on this site?
    And his mother and sister are quite proud of him in this case – you created an abortion out of the Judaism in your twisted religion and subsequently you’re not even capable of applying the most basic of Jewish traits without botching it in a sorry manner – JEWISH GUILT.
    It doesn’t work when you’re dealing with mortal enemies of the jewish people, sorry.

  10. oops i just saw the part about the kid with down syndrome, then again, who says it’s true? Jews for Jesus lie about everything else – if he has down syndrome, how come he can read and be online n stuff?

  11. My daughter’s boyfriend has Down syndrome – did you fail to read that part? He created the logo after looking for one on the internet. He did not realize that using it was improper. Since my wife had never visited this site before, she had no way of knowing the logo was modeled after the one on this site. You have made a huge deal out of absolutely nothing and it’s very sad.
    You slander someone when you imply that they are participating in inappropriate conduct and by questioning their morals or intentions. I would suggest you act as a responsible adult Mr. Mobias and just remove this thread from your site.

  12. Are you so ignorant and prejudiced that you do not know that children with Down syndrome can read and write? Is there no limit to the insults you people will throw out? Even at the handicapped? For your information, he reads very well (at about a 4th grade level), he’s not well versed in the law – but then again no child at his level of intellect is. This is my last response and my last request that this thread disappear. You’ve caused far too much hurt and saddness. It’s time to act like an adult and put an end to this silliness.

  13. Mobi-
    although there is no way to verify all of richard lawrence’s statements, do you have any evidence to suggest otherwise. or is this all just a “hunch”?

  14. mr. lawrence, i am truly sorry that your temple and your congregants homes were ravaged by hurricane katrina. we at jewschool actually just held a fundraiser for katrina disaster relief and we also have a contributor to this site from new orleans whose home was destroyed by katrina as well. i really do feel for you and i apologize for adding any insult to your injury.
    please try to understand where i’m coming from: aviad cohen has been taking swipes at jewschool on his personal website for the last several months. he has been leaving comments on jewschool stating that we are not “true jews,” and calling for a boycott of our website. then one day, there appears a link on his website to “true jew school,” a site which mimics our logo and our format. all over the site are links to cohen’s website, as there are on aviadshalom.org and hopeofisraelministries. org, sites owned and operated by your wife. to say your claims are suspect is to say the least.
    #1. why would aviad cohen have had a link to your congregation’s website on his that suddenly vanished within the last day?
    #2. if your wife had never heard of jewschool before, how would she have suddenly known to change the logo within an hour of writing about this incident?
    #3. i have several friends who have siblings with down syndrome, and i am more than aware of the abilities of people effected by it. while i know that many are capable of using the web to send e-mail and the like, i have never, ever heard of a person with down syndrome who has graphic design/photoshop skills. heck, i know several dozen people who run their own websites and have no idea how to use photoshop. so, while i find your story plausible, i find it unlikely.
    #4. there is not one reference to “true jew school” anywhere else on the web other than on your site which debuted on 50 shekel’s homepage, and is noticably missing from both of your websites (tikvahyisrael.org & hopeofisraelministries. org) although karate classes somehow take a prominent place.
    if you want to sue me for libeling your wife, you’re welcome to waste your time. i have about $47 in the bank and am living from gig-to-gig. if you win, which i doubt you will, you certainly won’t get much out of me.
    i really do offer you my sincerest condolences for the tragedy that’s befallen your community, but i’m not buying your story. this is just clever damage control which doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.

  15. “You slander someone when you imply that they are participating in inappropriate conduct and by questioning their morals or intentions.”
    No sir, you slander someone when you speak (outloud, not publish written material such as online) statements that you know to be untrue.
    What sort of lawyer are you?

  16. blah blah, lookit this judeochristian love n tolerance, i asked a simple question… what an answer I get..figures from a member of botched abortion of a religion like Jews for Jesus…
    man ur just holding true to the principles of ur religion, being a lying ass monkey who can’t even argue to save his life, man, if you’re really a lawyer you were probably unemployed before Katrina happened

  17. Let me respond.
    1. I believe 50shekel at one time had links to a lot of Messianic shuls, I’m flattered that ours was up there. Because my daughter is totally CRAZY about 50 Shekel and though she had Down syndrome, she can write and can send e-mail, she’s written to him a few times. She is proud of her Mom’s web site capabilities – I built our Shul’s site and she sends the link to a lot of people. I would guess that is where he got the link. If he reads this, thank you for linking to our site, but why did you take it down?
    2. One of your visitors (or perhaps a poster?) had the was decent enough to sent me mail at webmaster@truejewschool .com. This was the first time I saw the logo.
    3. If you truly had friends with Down syndrome you would know that they are capable of doing many, many things and that their abilities range from child to child. My daughter’s boyfriend is pretty good with simple things, the logo was very simple and he did a wonderful job. As for the slogan, the kids love 50shekel, I let them design the logo, I guess I should have questioned them further about where the ideas came from. Ah well you live and learn.
    4. Our shul has been destroyed. The Shul’s site is pretty much out-of-commission as our Rabbi is in Indiana, our building no longer exists, our members do not visit it anymore. Lately we have been using our Friday evening services and classes as our means of congregating. A hurricane is a very terrible thing to live through, a third of our town was destroyed, thousands and thousands of Slidell residents are still homeless. We are just doing the best we can.
    My husband isn’t the “suing” kind of lawyer, he is a good and decent man. But he’s angry over the threats and he’s upset that you, yourself, did not contact me directly. All you had to do was let me know there was a problem and it would have been remedied. As it is, as soon as one of your readers notified me, the logo was changed.
    Now, I must request that you remove this thread. I am not happy that you have made my personal information public. Since you posted the whois information, I have received several threatening phone calls from your posters. In Louisiana, such things are a crime. I hope you will direct your posters to leave me alone, I have not bothered you.
    Thank you for your efforts on behalf of hurricane Katrina victims, please don’t stop, nothing much has improved here as thousands are still homeless and in great need. Our community is devestated.

  18. The Louisiana State Bar Association has a search function to look up lawyers registered with them at this URL
    I can’t find any Richard Lawrence registered in Slidell, or New Orleans or Baton Rouge .. hmmm and interestingly, my ‘spamblock’ word is ‘claiming’

  19. Call New Orleans information, ask for the Louisiana Bar Association, Inquire about Richard Mariner Lawrence who graduated from LSU Paul M. Hebert Law School in 1984. That’s all you have to do. Oh, there are about 9 Richard Lawrence’s practicing in Louisiana last count so that’s not such a reliable url. You could also call Baton Rouge vital statistics and do a search for our marriage license, or perhaps for our child’s birth certificate. Is there anything else I can help you with?

  20. “You slander someone when you imply that they are participating in inappropriate conduct and by questioning their morals or intentions.”
    “No sir, you slander someone when you speak (outloud, not publish written material such as online) statements that you know to be untrue. What sort of lawyer are you?” maer sf • 11/30/05 01:45pm
    Uhh, actually, just lying about someone isn’t slander. At the risk of reliving of reliving law school, slander is not just lying about someone, but lying about specific subjects, e.g., that the person committed a crime, that the person in not fit for his office or occupation, or (my personal favorites) that he has a loathsome disease, or is unchaste. Not that lying about someone is nice …

  21. Sorry for the back-to-back posts, but I just realized I didn’t read the instructions closely enough on the Louisiana Bar Ass’n site – it turns out the ‘city’ field is optional.. if you leave it out you should get a search of the entire state, and no Richard Lawrence comes up at all. I think this is bogus. Yeah it *could be* that the Louisiana Bar Ass’n site is not reliable, but in my opinion, the principle of occam’s razor suggests you are the one who is not reliable.
    P.S. “Dixie Lawrence” wrote : “I am not happy that you have made my personal information public. Since you posted the whois information, I have received several threatening phone calls from your posters. In Louisiana, such things are a crime.”
    Actually whois information is already public information. And if you think a crime has been committed then it’s your right to do something about it. But it seems to me it’ll be more than difficult to pin the actions of some random person on Mobius

  22. Did you notice that the link says “active attorneys”? You will have to telephone them to confirm that he is an attorney as he is retired. Feel free to give them a call. They will be happy to accomodate you.

  23. lady
    you didn’t have a shul
    you have a church
    you don’t have a rabbi
    you have a priest
    as for your institution’s destruction, hell, at least one good thing came out of Katrina

  24. Aviva–
    Ask yourself before you post, “Am I helping or hurting?”
    (see below)
    At the moment, you’re making things worse.

  25. these people fall into the category of true reshaim about whom it is a commandment to ridicule go read ur chafetz chaim

  26. mobi-
    very good job undermining his assertions.
    One point- i have seen you ban people who disagree with you for far less than what this aviva is saying. If you want to maintain any creditability on your claim that you dont ban based on viewpoint, but rather for offensive and hateful comments, then there is no question that this aviva should be banned or at lease warned.

  27. Something is certainly fishy. The writing styles of Richard and Dixie Lawrence are very similar, but maybe it just has to do with writing official statements or something. But why didn’t the two just email you directly instead of posting for all of us to see? They would expect you to post some sort of update in which you ask people to leave them alone or some shit like that. But the web site is based in Louisiana, so their claimed location is pretty convincing. There are a lot of Christian fundamentalists down there who would like to see us bowing to Jesus (chas v’ chalilah).
    You know what I think? I think that Dixie Lawrence has no husband and is just using the whole story to make us feel bad. I bet that her alter for serving false gods was really in areas unaffected by the hurricane and is using someone else’s tragedy, as well as that bit about Down’s syndrome, to make you feel guilty. But then again, maybe she really is Jewish!
    In that case, come back lady. Don’t be a pawn of some fanatics who aim to destroy the Jews.
    This whole case with the Lawrence(s) and Aviad is just horrible. They have been horribly brainwashed and exploited by some anti-Semitic individuals. Aviad was lost and some people took advantage of it.
    I know this sounds callous, but maybe we don’t need these types of people in our gene pool. Insensitive? Disgusting? Discuss.

  28. The more I read about those JFJ the more I want to know more of Judaism and the Jewish people. Should I call myself “EX-christian for Judaism” or something? Or just being as good a Noachide as I can, reading the second book of Tanya and other stuff I get in Chabad.org is enough? Seeing those JFJ makes me angry and particularly unhappy since some of my ancestors became christians in Spain -by fear? by conviction? by greed? Who knows…
    What a waste of a Jewish soul!!! I wish Mossiach comes right now to sort all this mess out.

  29. Hey Mr Lawrence, what do you mean by the “you people” when you said “Is there no limit to the insults you people will throw out?”? Do I smell the rancid stench of christian antisemitism?

  30. Matt; maybe my husband and I have similar writing styles since we have been together almost 30 years – that will definitely do it. I hear after a while spouses even start to look like each other (I hope that’s not true). I do have a husband Matt, but I have to admit, there are a lot of times when I wished I didn’t.
    My beautiful daughter is 15, she was born with Down syndrome and is legally deaf. She also suffers from severe scoliosis but the funny thing is, she never ever complains. She’s something special. She has her own website but I hesistate to post the url, she’s way too sweet to deal with hate mail or nasty posts on her guest book which I fear may happen. However, if any of you would like to write me privately webmaster@truejewschool .com, I’ll send you photos, I would trust none of you would be so hateful as to misuse the photo of a handicapped child.
    As for our religious differences; it is indeed a shame. I’m a Jew, I don’t trash other Jews regardless of their beliefs. Our relationships with G-d are personal as far as I’m concerned.
    As for my husband being an anti-semite by saying “you people” of course he meant the people posting here, how could he be an anti-semite, especially in my family?
    May G-d bless you all and please, give thought to leaving me alone. I’ve done nothing at all to harm any of you.

  31. a) if aviva (who, sorry to say, is my sister) continues to post inflamatory remarks, i have warned her she will be banned.
    b) dixie, i abhor all attacks against your family made by anyone commenting here and i apologize for opening up that door.
    c) i also sincerely regret if any of our readers called and harrassed you, though considering the only people nasty enough to do that are the same people who curse us and criticize us, somehow i doubt they’d be rushing to our “defense” by attacking you. so i’m skeptical of your claim.
    d) you still have yet to explain how 50 shekel’s anti-jewschool slogan made it onto your website.

  32. Just an afterthought – claiming “threats of physical harm”? Come on, Mr Lawrence. You may be a lawyer, but I’m sure you have a sense of humor.
    and dede is right, Aviva. you’re not helping.

  33. I think the point is that she would have to be deaf to appreciate Mr. Cohen’s music.
    I mean, wasn’t that the point?
    No disrespect to deaf people, okay Chofetz Chayim?

  34. 1) My child is “legally deaf” which means she is even more obnoxious than most teenagers – she listens to music so loud that the walls vibrate.
    2) I didn’t create the logo and the slogan was part of it. The kids love 50 Shekel if they saw it on his site, that is where it came from
    Thank you for your post and thank you for your kindness and your apology. I appreciate both more than you know. But I must ask you to remove this thread from your site. It’s very upsetting to me and it’s upsetting my husband.
    I have done absolutely nothing to deserve the e-mails and phone calls that are coming from people at your site since you put that information on line.
    You have people who post on your site who are, to put it mildly, very very strange and perhaps even dangerous folks. I phoned the sheriff’s office about the phone calls and he sent an officer over to view your site and to write down the phone numbers of the people who have been calling (I do have caller ID). Before this gets even more out of hand, do the decent thing and just remove that thread.
    I have nothing against you or your site, other than it’s not appropriate for some people due to the profanity, etc. I have never posted one single word against your site – particularly since I didn’t even know it existed. Now please take this thread down.
    Thank you, Dixie Lawrence

  35. i’ll remove the links to the whois postings which link to your address and phone number, but i cannot remove this post — especially now that reporters will be covering this issue. i have to be able to present my position as to why i disbelieve your claims.

  36. Other than it would be the decent and right thing to do? And taking it down just might keep others from calling my home and sending me terrible e-mails? Do you mean other than those reasons? I think Mobius is a bigger person than this. When I saw that our logo was like his, I took it down. This thread has and is resulting in harassing phone calls and e-mails. I don’t think Mobius approves of that and I think he’ll do the right thing and take it down.
    Thank you in advance, Mobius

  37. I appreciate that. Now, since it is so very easy for any reporter to find my marriage licence, my child’s birth certificate (heck, I’ll give them her medical records) my husband’s Bar ID number, my phone number – in fact 2 have called me at home already – and that absolutely everything I have said is the truth – I guess I could provide them with photos of the kids for any articles, the articles are going to be really boring. A visit to our web site shows exactly what it is, it’s a Messianic study groups website – nothing like yours. It never was. Even on the logo thing you posted, you can read the information about the site – read it – does that look like Jew School to you? I would think you’d be embarassed to let reporters see how terribly this site treats others. But go ahead, leave the thread up. You could always copy it and send it to a reporter, that would be an alternative or you can leave it up and people can keep saying terrible things about me when they don’t even know me and I haven’t done a thing to deserve it. I’m sure your readers and posters will provide more nasty fodder that may end up as part of an article. What a shame.
    I’ve asked nicely. That’s all I can do.

  38. i don’t deny or doubt that you are married, have a daughter with down syndrome who’s legally deaf, or that your temple was destroyed by katrina.
    what i do doubt is that this is all a mere coincidence and the act of children with down syndrome who, in their innocent adoration of 50 shekel, took a swipe at my website and attempt to coopt it to promote messianic judaism. i think that that’s your cover story, and i think it’s sad that you’re taking advantage of these children’s conditions to save yourself.

  39. Since our site is a members only site, and we do not solicit members nor did we list our site with a search engine, your argument falls really short. Save myself from what? No one took a swipe at your website, but you have surely taken swipes at ours. Are you incapable of just admitting that this was a stupid error on both parts and let it go? I do not know what has gone on between you and 50shekel but it’s not my business nor is it my fault. I visited his site today and saw that there are dozens of magazines and even other websites with his pictures all over them, will you please focus your attack dogs at one of them and leave our little shul alone? You should look very very foolish in the press. You should think twice before you ever accuse anyone of using their children.

  40. just one thing – mobius, i thought you promised in your last post on this subject NEVER to mention 50 shekel again on your site?
    i would’ve really liked a follow-through on that.

  41. Mobius, this is a letter I sent to both E.B. and Stacy Kramer, reporters who called me about this lunacy today.
    “Ladies, you might want to know that Mobius at JewSchool made my personal information available on his site. I have received hate mail and harassing and threatening phone calls from individuals on his site.
    I will say this one more time; the logo had nothing to do with 50shekel (and I don’t know what the problem is between the 2 of them – I do not know either of them). The logo and slogon was created by a young man with Down syndrome who loves 50shekel. Apparently, the slogan came from something on 50shekel’s website which I don’t doubt since the young man uses 50shekel as his desktop graphic and stays on the site playing his music day and night. I have been absolutely brutalized by Mobius and by his posters and I have explained everything to him as best I can. I have asked him as nicely as possible to leave me alone and to take down the thread that trashes me personally all to no avail. He seems to think you ladies will need the information so he can prove his allegations against 50shekel, whatever they might be.
    What is happening is that I am being threatened, I have had to call the police, my phone is ringing off the hook with terrible things being said. I cannot take it off the hook because I have other kids and grandkids.
    I don’t know what either of you intends to write, but how about the way this fellow treats people who have done nothing to him?
    The minute it was brought to my attention that our sites logo looked like theirs, I visited his site and took ours down. That should have been the end of it.
    We have had a very difficult summer, Katrina has destroyed 3/4 of our town, life here is very hard and about all we have is our faith in G-d and our little shul (what’s left of it). We need to be left in peace. I trust you ladies will not add to the harm this Mobius person has already caused.
    With appreciation,
    Dixie Lawrence”

  42. Dixie, we all sympathize with the fact that your daughter has the Down’s syndrome. However, after reading these threads, I have realized something: Aviad Cohen, Mobius and the rest of Jewschool must be your long lost children! This entire discussion is like a big family reunion! Aaah, can’t you feel the love in the air?

  43. Never feel sorry for parents of children with Down syndrome, we are extremely blessed to have our children in our lives. They are born with something most of us will never manage, the ability to love others unconditionally. Don’t pity these children, envy their innocence.

  44. You do know that you have to “pay” to list with MH? Most retired attorneys don’t bother to do that. The phone number for the Louisiana State Bar Association is 504 566 1600. He is not active, he is retired, be sure to tell them that so they can locate his information; his full name is Richard Mariner Lawrence, they will be able to put an end to this Micky Mouse stuff.

  45. Mobius, I read your little “Notice” and I went to 50shekels site to find that slogan, here is what I found http://50shekel.com/index.cfm I don’t see anything about JewSchool but I do know why my daughter and her boyfriend would have visited this link and been intrigued by it, do you see the references to Disney and to Harry Potter? How incredibly foolish and paranoid you truly are.

  46. dixie, it’s apparent to everyone who regularly reads jewschool that aviad removed the references to jewschool and your ministry from his website in the last week, and we have the writeups on our blog from the dates they were posted to prove it.
    he forgot one tho.

  47. Well I don’t read your site. As for when or if he removed anything, I have no idea. The logo was made only a few days ago, not weeks ago. The only thing on that link that would have been of interest to these children are the Disney and Harry Potter Links, neither of them knows or cares a thing about JewSchool. I’m very, very tired of this. You have made such a fool out of yourself. I am not one to resort to tacky threats and hate speak but I will ask you one last time, nicely, take this ridiculous foolishness down and leave me, my children and my shul’s web site alone. Beyond that, all I can do is follow the advice of our Sherriff’s office with regard to the calls your posters have made, I certainly hope none of them came from your phone number, but given your behavior, I would not be at all surprised.

  48. oh puhleeeeze. anyone who threatened you on the telephone deserves to be prosecuted. i wouldn’t resort to that sort of behavior. (unless you write for jewlicious.) and you, ma’am, look just as sketchy as i do if not moreso.

  49. As Kyle’s mom would say on South Park…whut whut whu?
    You write this: Aviad Cohen is a master public relations strategist. Just take a look at his press page. He doesn’t even have an agent–he does his own PR.
    My comment: I can’t take credit for being a master pr strategist. I never went to any of those publications, etc. To be humbly honest, I would say 99% of them all came to me. It’s really orchestrated by God really. I’m surprised anyone even took interest when there are a gazliion websites out there. Perhaps I’m just Jewin’ something nice and they like it. Humbly I say this all to you and your readers. Mobius does have creative graphic talents but he’s just misusing it and serving ha’satan. I mean, look at the fruits of his work. Maybe it’s about time he and ya’ll start glorifying God with your talents. You might not want to embrace Messiah right now but it’s ok. God will reveal himself to you when you really reach out to Him. There is no reason to be jealous of press…it’s not about press, it’s all about Glorifying God & His Kingdom. I’m far from perfect and make mistakes in life just like anybody else, but I just really want to say that God is real and Mashiach loves you.
    Your friend,
    Aviad Cohen

  50. i’m pretty sure i remember a ‘dixie’ posting on jewschool
    does anyone else, and if so, please post the posts with TIME AND DATE.

  51. they came to you cuz you pulled your coming out stunt. that was a brilliant move for an artist whose shtick was getting old in the jewish community. there are only so many venues for a jewish musician — and a novelty act at that. rather, the thriving christian music market is where the money’s at, and where the young fans are clamoring with their dollars. make yourself a martyr and bang… you’re a true role model for the struggling young christian. yawn.
    aviad…everything i do is lishmah. i just spent the last two weeks working around the clock to build a website to fight human trafficking in israel. i also built the site for their sponsor organization which provides aid to righteous gentiles (those who saved jews during the shoah) living in israel. you know how much i charged for these sites? nothing. you know how much money i have in the bank? none. so please, please, please mr. cast the first stone, do not talk to me about hasatan.
    you sold god out for an idol.

  52. How can anyone be a fan of 50 Shekel. I mean, whether he is a JFJ or a good Jew who doesn’t worship the idols of people who have persecuted his people for two millenia, the fact is that he just has one song. He’s not like some amazing artist with a large discography. It’s just a novelty thing. Listening to 50 Shekel all the time means only listening to “In Da Shul” and those crappy techno remakes he made recently. Maybe the boy is really a 50 Cent fan and someone confused him with 50 Shekel.

  53. As a Jew (no not for Jesus), I am embarrassed to see the venom on this site, and astonished that anyone who puts up a logo re: Lashon Hara on his comments page would turn around and pull this kind of stuff only days afterward. It is truly appalling, and I am talking about the comments thread here. While Jews for Jesus may itself be a frustrating movement, the treatment of it here almost makes me want to learn more about them, because they are the only ones coming off here as decent people.
    Now, why don’t you attack me for having dared say these things. I can see it coming…

  54. This is Aviad Cohen,
    I’m rather busy right now, but thought to share this with you. I’m just going to be honest here. Toi the supposed Jew who calles himself Mobius as well as his cult-like fanatical henchmen..you are acitng more like Hamas rather than Hebrews. How is it that Jewish girls and guys who come to this site approve of beating and breaking the legs of other Jews who so happen to believe in Mashiach. The fact that due to you intentionally placing Mrs. Lawrence’s phone # on your site and the same time fueling your cult members to hate her and fuel discussion of causing her literal physical harm which resulted in people calling her from your site and threatening her well-being and that of her family. Sir who calls himself Mobius, you are more than likely facing a certain serious level of prosecution you never ever ever ever ever expected. Your intention to get sue happy is going to end up backfiring on you. Is your name Hitler or Mobius or Osama?…basically, we’re just gonna lump you in with the rest of the radical terrorists. Sir, pray that God has mercy on your soul and I hope you repent before it just might be too late and that also goes for your CULT MEMBERS. Ha’satan has a strong hold on you and your cult called JewSchool.com It is OFFICIAL: Jewschool is a fanatical religious cult that aims to terrorize and harm people who do not adhere to their religious fanatical beliefs. The evidence has been publicly displayed today. It is now offical, Jewschool.com is an occult website. All the True Jews, please exit and exodus out into TrueJewSchool.com Don’t test God further, He’s had enough of you already. It says this on the bottom of this mailform:
    This is a lashon harah-free zone. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
    We advise you to address ideas, not the individuals presenting them.
    Ask yourself before you post, “Am I helping or hurting?”
    For more information, consult the Jewish laws of ethical speech.
    You have completely fallen off track…this is not a Jewish site….it is a religious occult pro-terrorism site that aims to harm and kill. You are no different than Jihad, Hamas, Nazis and KKKs. This is probably the most embarassing moment of your entire life. We TRUE JEWS are praying for you all….for real (even if you plot to harm and murder us). This site needs to be permanently shut down. Hey Mobius, you were jealous for press right? Well, enjoy the press. You’ve just joined the ranks of Nazi and Hamas youth leaders. This is very serious. I don’t think you really understand the implications of what you have just manifested. Any further threats against her and her family or me and my family, due to your hate fueling, well, we’re not afraid. Why? Because God is on our side, while satan is fueling your demoinc jewschool clan. The God of Avraham, Yitzhak v’ Ya’akov IS stronger than your rabbinical lord satan. Now you all know why I escaped from Manhattan’s Occult Order of Rabbinic Judaism. It’s just like Islam. They’ll aim to break your faith or even worse, harm or kill you and your family if you leave their cult in order to serve God in Truth and proclaim Yeshua who so happens to be the True Jew Messiah to the world. The fruits of one of the many Jewish occults, in this case Orthodox Judaism (others are Kabbalah, Haredi, Jews For Judaism, Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist, Traditional, Chabbad, Yad Lachim, Chassidism, Jewish Buddhists, Jewish atheism, Jewish agnostic,etc) has just been clearly exposed. NOW JEWS ARE SEEING WHAT’S GOING ON AND ARE RUNNING FROM RELIGIOUS ORDERS AND AIMING FOR THE SAFETY OF OUR CREATOR. Thank God I made it out alive…I hope you do too.
    Aviad Cohen

  55. Mobius,
    Email me at my website and I’ll give you a nice call-for real. No shtick, no whatevers, just spiel. This is obviously really not about Jewschool.com vs TrueJewSchool.com There is obviously some weird misunderstanding between you and I that I am not quite aware why for years you don’t like me but you never personally met me or knew me. Please email me a legit # to call you at to discuss everything else but this school spie.
    Aviad Cohen
    Aviad Cohen

  56. Ooof, this is starting to look like the Monty Python sketch in ‘Life of Brian’…
    Mobius, even for the chance that this is a genuine mistake (someone with a cosmic sense of humour must be rolling upstairs), is it not just worth to call it off. The sooner this fracass ends, the better for all concerned. Forgive and forget, all of ya, please…

  57. I’ve got to agree with Sam. Didn’t you recently vow NEVER to metion that guy’s name on your site again?
    What happened to that?

  58. Mr. and Mrs. Lawrence:
    I find it suspect that as a self-proclaimed Jew and shul-goer (until it was destroyed by hurricane katrina), you’ve chosen to raise your daughter on the music of a believer in Jesus as the Messiah.
    You know, many haredim who have children (esp. sons) with down syndrome send their children to heder with other children; for the sake of that child and his development, this is a horribly unfortunate practice. Perhaps the sole save face of this phenomenon, though, is that those parents believe that their children’s religious identity will be least compromised if they are surrounded by Jewish religion.
    If you do, indeed, consider yourself a Jew, why allow your daughter to play 50 shekel music with heavy Christian overtone that could compromise her (and your) Jewish identity and values in these troubled times that you face?
    If you want better suggestions for soothing Jewish music, I have many suggestions for you (try kol achai).
    And if for whatever reason, you’re not in the mood for Jewish music, try Cat Stevens. Sure, he might not be a fan of the Jews now as “yusuf islam” [incidentally, an alias he allegedly adopted when someone arguably took advantage of his vulnerable mental condition (depression)] , but unlike 50 shekel, his music will not threaten to compromise your or your daughter’s Jewish identity and values of it’s own accord–unlike 50 shekel.
    Mobius: I enjoyed talking with you in Israel this summer at Kol Zimra, and while I don’t agree with everything you say or do, I’ll happily take this opportunity to vouch for your acheivements for the Jewish community. Not like you need any defense against 50 Shekel, not the most merit-worthy ‘kategor’ of our generation.

  59. Hello Free Produce, nice to meet you. I am a Messianic Jew. I love Cat Stevens, always have, love Kol Achai. I have not lost my Jewish identity and I must say after the horrible things that have been printed here, your post was so refreshing.
    I’m afraid 50shekel is one of the few musicians who speak to some of our Messianic young people. The younger teens anyway. They want the rythym, the dance music, and particularly Down syndrome children, they so very much enjoy dancing. I don’t let her listen to secular music. My husband doesn’t want her listening to other types of rock and roll music. Soft music won’t work because she is very, very hearing impaired and has to blast music through her hearing aids to hear it at all.
    Thank you again for your very sweet post. I appreciate your concern for our Jewish identity but even as Messianics, we are one of the most prominent Jewish families in this area. Everyone knows we are Jews and our community is one with great respect for others. I see that you also belong to such a community by your very nice post.
    Thank you for a breath of fresh air amid the rest of this turmoil.

  60. Aviad Cohen is not an intellectual. He probably never even finished high school. He is ignorant enough to belive in these cults. He does not work and if he thinks he is an artist he is wrong. An artist needs to have some sort of talent. Aviad has no talent and evidently he is also simple-minded.

  61. Actually, I’ve listened to his music and I think he’s very talented. I wish we had lots of musicians for our Messianic children to enjoy. We are grateful for this one though as he provides a beat and sound they really love. He’s had a great impact on our Messianic young people as is evident by the different sites my daughter and her friends share. I’m sure that’s true in many other Messianic Communities also. The kids use the internet too, and sites with streaming audio are fun for them – they can hear the whole songs.
    It may be a matter of opinion as far as talent goes. For instance, I have never thought Bob Dylan could sing a note – though he is quite the musician and poet – and my husband absolutely loves his voice.

  62. Ms. Lawrence:
    While I don’t mean to rebuff your kind words, I would be misleading you if I let you think that I, much less “Everyone”, accept(s)/”know(s)” Messianic Jewry to be as a Jewish life style. Belief in Jesus as the Messiah, in my book and most other Jews, precludes one from being able to call his/herself a Jew.
    If your hope is to be accepted as Jewish by a healthy portion of other Jews, I can say with reasonable certainty that you will not achieve this by (1) promoting messianism of Jesus in your home and to your daughter, and/or (2) siding with 50 shekel’s self-promotional tactics–as a Messianic Jew and, more concerning, still trying to pass himself/his music off as Jewish.
    Perhaps the only genre I have left to recommend to you is classical techno, with no words, like “Bond!” or remixes of Vivaldi. But so long as 50 shekel and his adopted brand of belief in Jesus is played and defended in your household, I personally can not accept your husband’s attempt to defend your household as a Jewish one.

  63. Dear FreeProduce;
    While persons who adhere to other forms of Judaism may not feel that Messianics are Jews, it doesn’t make us any less Jewish. Not at all. My opinion is shared by even traditional rabbis such as authors Dan Kohn Sherbok and Carol Harris Shapiro. Whether an individual person on this site or any other accepts us as Jewish is unimportant. We accept our fellow Jews who do not believe the way we do as our brethren. As for 50Shekel, I guess you don’t have teenagers.
    I do not have to defend my household to anyone. It’s a house full of love, respect and a place any person of any faith is truly welcomed. We like what Joshua said and we adhere to it “Choose this day who you will serve, but as for me and my house, we server Adonai”.
    AGain, thank you for your candor and your restraint, your posts are not inflamatory nor in anyway offensive but civil – as any discussion between Jews (and anyone else for that matter) should be.

  64. I don’t think messianism in and of itself can make one un-Jewish, for instance the Chabad often believe Shneerson is the messiah. However, belief that Jesus is God, probably does. Though admittedly some Chabad believe Shneerson is God, and for this they are criticized. Furthermore, I believe you can only be considered a messiah in the Jewish sense if you save Israel from something and neither Jesus or Shneerson did. Moses was a Messiah and David was, but not Jesus. While Jesus probably didn’t intend to create persecution of Jews, and he probably did have messianic ambitions.
    Unfortunately some of the gentile elements of his movement sucked up to Rome in order to gain acceptance, and this resulted in the persecuted Jews for centuries. They started straying whenimitated the Roman emperors and portrayed Jesus as God. Paul motivation was probably simply to challenge the empire, but then the empire coopted the Jesus movement and the rest is bloody history. The evil pogroms against Jews from some of Jesus’s gentile followers are in and of themselves proof that he is not messiah in the Jewish sense.
    BTW, there are real Jews for Jesus, but they have a traditional concept of the messiah. They don’t believe Jesus is God. They are called ebionites. They follow the tradition of the original followers of Jesus by the same name.

  65. I am just posting it over. Edited this time for clarity.
    I don’t think messianism in and of itself can make one un-Jewish, for instance the Chabad often believe Shneerson is the messiah. However, belief that Jesus is God, probably does. Though admittedly some Chabad believe Shneerson is God, and for this they are criticized. Furthermore, I believe you can only be considered a messiah in the Jewish sense if you save Israel from something and neither Jesus or Shneerson did. Moses was a Messiah and David was, but not Jesus. While Jesus probably didn’t intend to create persecution of Jews, and he probably did have messianic ambitions, unfortunately some of the gentile elements of his movement sucked up to Rome in order to gain acceptance, and this resulted in the persecution of Jews for centuries. They started straying when theyimitated the Roman emperors and portrayed Jesus as God. Paul motivation was probably simply to challenge the empire, but then the empire coopted the Jesus movement and the rest is bloody history. The evil pogroms against Jews from some of Jesus’s gentile followers are in and of themselves proof that he is not messiah in the Jewish sense.
    BTW, there are real Jews for Jesus, but they have a traditional concept of the messiah. They don’t believe Jesus is God. They are called ebionites. They follow the tradition of the original followers of Jesus by the same name.

  66. Mr. and Mrs. Lawrence: You probably should mention somewhere on your site that truejewschool is a bible study and that it was run by your synagogue, in case someone that didn’t know that did come accross the site would know what the site is about (i had assumed it was a parody on jewschool). also say that it’s not affilaited with jewschool.

    While the individual posters on this site are responsible for whatever they post (or threaten) it didn’t help to put up the whois information on this site. I know that it’s publically available but you’re making it that much easier to harass someone. Putting up the phone number was unneccesary, using the name was ok because you were trying to relate it to another site.

    I’m not going to say that much about 50 because we’re planning on talking over the phone within the next couple days. I do think this is a very Jewish site. I’m a Messianic Jew. While I obviously don’t agree with this site’s stance on Messianics, I like to read and keep up with Jewish culture because being Messianic often isolates me.
    I have a problem with the phrase “True Jew.” That’s basically implying that only Messianics are Jews which isn’t true. Jewishness is something that you are born into and/or follow. The phrase “true jew” is misleading because it doesn’t describe who we are. Some Jews may argue that “Messianic Jews” is misleading, but at the very least people will have a basic idea about the beliefs of the person using the term.

    to the post earlier. isn’t it circular logic to say that messianic jews are not accepted as jews because they are listening to messianic jewish music?
    as for me personally the message matters but so does the music. most messianic artists do not interest me, and matisyahu is the only jewish artist i listen to. i listen to a lot of christian and secular music because it’s good music.

  67. Before the hurricane, we used to get Christian missionaries all the time at Tulane. Except they were never plain Christians. They were ALWAYS Louisiana Messianic Jews. They love Tulane. While the South is full of Messianic Jewish missionary groups, it’s not very full of Jews (which may explain why many of these messianic Jews are not, y’know, Jewish), but Tulane, with its 30% Jewish student body, is like a friggin’ Messianic wet dream. They would stand on a sidewalk that was on campus but legally city property so they couldn’t be kicked off and hand out pamphlets full of the same vaguely offensive material that is characteristic of Jew-targeting missionaries: to be a “true” Jew, you have love Yeshua.
    Encouragingly, the stack of their pamphlets that collected in the garbage can across the street tends to indicate that nobody buys that shit.

  68. Mobius, I think it’s a good idea to take down this whole thread, post and comments and all. I personally don’t think you’ve done anything wrong, and I hope that the Lawrences are lying about receiving threats. But with this site’s high traffic and the character of some of the posts, it’s not out of the realm of possibility. By this time the thread has attracted worse slander regarding this site from messianic Jews like Aviad than anything you ever said about anybody, and nonchristian (presumably) Jewish posters making themselves and this site look bad by their posts and behavior. It’s giving a lot of people a forum who shouldn’t have forum. I have a feeling this is going to become more and more embarrassing for the site, despite the good intentions and reasonable suscipicions that started this whole thing.
    Even if you take down this post and thread, you can supply this material to reporters if and when you feel like it.

  69. ck, I think Mobius said that just to call you in. Haven’t you made peace already, lotta love etc?
    btw, what do you think of all this palaver?

  70. Not to stir the pot, but fiddy as it were, has commented on his site, and it’s pretty funny. Apparently, WE “unsaved” jews are the cultists, how cute.
    Slightly less cute is this gem directed at Mobius:
    “You are now finally infamous for intentionally and willfully (mis)leading your JewSchool.com cult members of religious fanatical Orthodox Jewish youth towards hating and attempting to physically harm, if not attempting to carry out murder of Messianic Jews in the USA who just choose God and His Truth over The Rabbinic (Hamas-style) Order of (fanatical) Judaism. Mr. Sieradski is an equivalent to a Hamas Youth Group Leader. He posts phone #s of his victims, in the case of today, like Mrs. Dixie Lawrence and then his Heeb-frontin’ henchmen attempt to carry out violence (if not murder) against fellow Jews.”
    Don’t you see what’s happened here? “Dixie” and Aviad have become Martyrs for their “walk with g-d”. And what better way to cash in on this martyrdom? Create a fake identity and make up some dialogue for him!
    The kind of dialogue they are trying to creat is something like, “See guys, even this unsaved jew would rather hang with messianics than those a-hole cultists”. And it’s probably not totally inneffective.
    Aviad is offensive, truly hateful and decietful in the worst way. I don’t understand his plight and why he does what he does, but it has nothing to do with love for HaShem.

  71. like i said — the whole thing’s a concoction. now we’re “Jihad, Hamas, Nazis and KKKs” for defending judaism from christian missionaries who have co-opted our culture, truejewschool being just another example of that co-optation. i’m hitler. me, the anti-fascist anarchist.
    i’m sorry, but it’s christianity which has persecuted jews for the last two thousand years. and it’s christianity which continues to attack jews, now in the form of messianic “judaism.” it’s christians who baptize holocaust victims in their graves, destroying their identities and finishing the job for hitler. and its you fuckers who are trying to do that now, here, while concocting a very clever cover story that any anyone not deluded by a messianic cult can see right through.
    i did not post the woman’s phone number, nor did i encourage anyone to call her and harrass her. i linked to a whois record which is in the public domain. anyone could have looked her number up. i didn’t intend to save whatever assholes called her that one step of typing “whois truejewschool.com” themselves and getting her phone number. i’ve removed all references to the whois record from the site.
    you know what a true jew is (and fuckin’ a i use that term loosely)? one who respects, appreciates, and connects with his 3,000 year old heritage. part of that heritage is rabbinic judaism. you know what the rabbis say you should do with a jew for jesus? you should act like aviva did towards them. that’s halakha. push with one, pull with the other. i tried to be nice about it. now i’m getting called hitler.
    btw — i’m SOOOOOOOO amused that we’re being called fanatical orthodox jews, because as far as the orthodox community is concerned, i hate them and i hate orthodoxy. just ask this guy david who keeps posting and tell me what a rasha i am for criticizing the orthodox world. hey dave, now i’ve been lumped in with you! how’s that make you feel?
    N — ck was joking about one of the comments i made, re: the only people i would threaten physically are the writers at jewlicious. the only reason i say that is because i did, once, threaten to kick t_m in the shins. but that’s because he called me an anti-semite in a thinly veiled remark.

  72. aviad, btw, why don’t you put “banned from da shul” back up? ya know, that song where you diss jews, muslims and christians, call people like kanye west “faggots,” use the word “nigger” like it was air for breathing — labelling jay z and 50 cent as such, say that you’d join hamas before becoming an orthodox jew, etc.? because you’re SUCH a fucking role model.
    be a role model mr. christian — turn the other cheek!!! nooooope… calls jews HITLER for defending themselves from missionaries.
    forgive them father, they know not what they do.

    I’ve got a couple things to say.
    1. I study media, taking logos from anywhere without permission is illegal, BEFORE you put it on your site you can check it in google images, it would’ve taken about 5 seconds.
    2.I grew up orthodox, I practice Conservadox, and I love Jewschool. I think it’s got an awesome, often amusing, satirical, and helpful view on what’s going on in the world. My opinion of Jews for Jesus I feel is unnecesary…it’s been said.
    Let me say this..I don’t begrudge ANYONE’S right to practice what they believe in freedom, just don’t disguise it under the name of what I believe when it isn’t.
    May this argument die in peace, may Louisiana and your place of worship be rebuilt as quickly as possible, and may we all go on to do bigger and more important things than continue this thread for the rest of our lives.
    MASPIK!!!!! (enough)

  74. Mo,
    Like you, I have made mistakes in the past and have seeked to correct them, rather than still keep them up on my website. By the way, at the end of the spiel I wrote on my site, I actually speak some nice spiels about you.

  75. To David in response to your post – I have reprinted it below for your information:
    “I have a problem with the phrase “True Jew.” That’s basically implying that only Messianics are Jews which isn’t true. Jewishness is something that you are born into and/or follow. The phrase “true jew” is misleading because it doesn’t describe who we are. Some Jews may argue that “Messianic Jews” is misleading, but at the very least people will have a basic idea about the beliefs of the person using the term. ”

    The information that TrueJewSchool is a Messianic study group and an extension of our shul is already on the site – on the entry page and has been since shortly after it went on line and certainly before this controversy. The term “TrueJewSchool” comes from our Friday Night classes that have been held for 3 years and include Gentiles. It does not refer to any sect of Judaism it refers to the “truth” of Judaism over non-judaic forms of Christianity. Here and all over the country there are Christian churches holding pseudo (though well intended Sunday Messianic services) at TrueJewSchool, part of the evening is spent teaching local pastors and unschooled Christians the way of worshipping G-d as a Jew.
    We are very fortunate here in that we are not isolated from our Jewish culture. There are not very many Jews in Slidell (and not that many in New Orleans – as Michael has stated – that’s just not so unless the students are all from out of state). The Jewish people who live in our community do not reject one another, they certainly do not treat each other with disdain or hatred such as I have witnessed on this site – even when they aren’t Messianics. Rather, we share Shabbat meals, guest speak at each other’s places of worship, are in the same social organizations, band together on issues that affect us socially, better yet, Messianic and non-Messianic Jews here live as G-d intended, in peace. Shunning remains something for the Amish – not for Jews.
    And now to Mobius:
    I do agree that this needs to come down. Mobius, you’ve violated every thing you say on your site about conduct. Go visit TrueJewSchool, you’ll see that no one violates ANY of our rules. We hold their feet to the fire when it comes to respect.
    My husband asks that you take this thread down. Personally you do what you want. I would never think of retaliating by putting something trashy on my site or any other site, but the good news is that since this argument started, so many of your posters have visited the site, sent the link around, and in addition to the nasty grams I have received from some of them, others have apologized, shared their embarassment over this thread, become members at TrueJewSchool – even though they are not Messianic and won’t be bothered about it and are working on contributions so that our Gentile members can learn even more about Judaism from their perspective.
    I sent your link to a dear friend who is quite a famous Conservative Jewish Rabbi and Author. He mentioned that this is a good topic to bring up on his speaking tour. Like any other good Jew, he was both ashamed and embarassed by your conduct. His exact words “no “true” Jew would ever resort to such behavior” (and he wasn’t talking about Messianics – since he isn’t one). So you might at least want to leave up long enough for the Rabbi to make his over-heads.

  76. Ummmn, Muffti doesn’t get it:
    i’m sorry, but it’s christianity which has persecuted jews for the last two thousand years. and it’s christianity which continues to attack jews, now in the form of messianic “judaism.” it’s christians who baptize holocaust victims in their graves, destroying their identities and finishing the job for hitler. and its you fuckers who are trying to do that now, here, while concocting a very clever cover story that any anyone not deluded by a messianic cult can see right through.

    Mo, are you really comparing years of genuine torture, murder, humiliation and genocide (partly) by Christians to the work of some messianic missionaries and a relatively small group that pretends thre is significance to retro-baptism and conversions? This counts as persecution in your book?

  77. Avaid Cohen is a scatterbrained idiot. There is no proof “jesus” existed. There were many “messiahs” at the time that the supposedly “jesus” character lived. Look up Apollonius of Tyana.

  78. Calling belief in Jesus (particularly the deity of Jesus) Jewish is horribly offensive. I am a Conservative convert to Judaism. I know that to an Orthodox Jew I am not Jewish, but ben Noah. I would be arrogant to suggest otherwise. If my children marry an Orthodox Jew, I will tell them to convert under Orthodox auspices because they are not Jews by Orthodox standards. This is a tough position to take, and it is sometimes hurtful to liberal Jewish converts, but it is the only honest position. To suggest that believing in Jesus is somehow compatible with being Jewish is just beyond acceptable.

  79. Holy fucking Jesus H. Christ. Dixie – will you and your hubby please be good followers of Jesus (Hallelujah!) and turn the other cheek already?? There is nothing embarassing about this thread. No one has shunned you. You and Aviad and your ilk however have removed yourselves from klal yisrael by worshipping a false God and trying to steer others to your obscene practice – your church is about as Jewish as my ass. If anything I am amazed by the incredible restraint shown by people on this thread. Whoever that Conservative “Rabbi” was who said that he was embarassed, well, he should either speak for himself or STFU. I’ve lived in New Orleans. I’ve met your fellow dipshit messianic “Jews” on campus at Tulane. What conventional synagogues have you spoken at? Certainly not at the Hillel House, or the Chabad House. Had you approached me in NOLA (or Slidell) I would have treated you with the respect you deserve. Can you guess how much that would be?

  80. Dixie, gentiles aren’t expected to keep the sabbath or keep kosher unless they convert and there is no pressure to convert. They are expected to avoid idolotry so that means, no worshipping Jesus as God. I assume since you say proper judaic christianity this mean you don’t teach them to worship him?
    Anyway, you don’t sound knowledgable enough to run a shul, so I am becoming ever more sceptical of your claims.

  81. Muffti’s right. Even assuming Messianic Judaism is just a version of evangelical Christianity designed to try to convert Jews by telling them they can still be Jews and practice Judaism while believing in Jesus, you have to admit it’s not quite at the Hitler level of evil. There’s also the possibility, however slim, that some of the people or congregations practicing Messianism don’t actively try to convert Jews, and are just practising the religion they believe in or find most fulfilling. In that case there’s nothing that objectionable going on. That’s not to say we shouldn’t expose and counter all missionary efforts. http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/
    It seems likely that this whole thing was based on a misunderstanding. But even if everything the Lawrences say is a “very clever cover story,” you’re never going to uncover it. It’s not worth it. Make this post toast.

  82. Avi is not a non proselytizer type. He has actually accused Jews of murdering Jesus, which means his view is more threatening than Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell or even Mel Gibson who did not actually say that in so many words. Blood libel has been associated with many nasty pogroms in history. Why Avi wanted to go there is something I don’t under stand.

  83. Dixie’s “Famous Conservative Jewish Rabbi,” if you’re out there, speak up.
    That doesn’t surprise me about Avi. But are the Lawrences of the same hateful ilk?

  84. “your church is about as Jewish as my ass”
    I thought you were 100% Jewish… or perhaps you meant your Equus Asinus, who, for all I know, won’t certainly be Jewish but could be christian. As an ex- one (christian, not ass) I can assure you that.

  85. Yisrael, I could be wrong about this, but my understanding is that a Jews who convert to Christianity are still halakhically Jews, though they are apostates or heretics. So if they returned to the fold they wouldn’t have to convert. That’s a different question than whether they’re practicing Judaism — which they’re definitely not.
    The spamblock phrase is “returned.” The messianists reading this might want to take that as some kind of sign.

  86. Laya wrote: ck, you doofus, your ass is jewish
    Oh yeah. OK. let me rephrase that. Your church is about as Jewish as uh… a strip of bacon. Or as Jewish as uhm… Hitler’s ass. Whatever, you get my point though right?

  87. ck, your ass is actually pretty Jewish.
    To the “Messianics” on this board, re. historical persecution — the problem (or one of the problems) is that from an early period, Christian theology considered believers in Jesus to be “true Jews” while condemning all “non-Jesus-believing” Jews to eternal damnation. This dehumanization of Jews made it easier to commit atrocities against entire communities throughout European history. After the Holocaust, it’s no longer “PC” to commit atrocities against Jews, but the basic theology of these “True Jews” — that only by accepting Jesus can Jews be saved, and that unless they accept Jesus, Jews will burn forever — is abominably offensive, and it reaks of the same hatred and dehumanization that the Church used, time and again, to encourage mass murder.
    But to most of the posters here, I’m preaching to the choir. So to speak.

  88. Clarification: After the Holocaust, it’s no longer “PC” for CHRISTIANS to commit atrocities against Jews. That awakening hasn’t quite entered the Muslim world. But you get my point.
    Also, “reeks,” not “reaks.” Sorry.

  89. I don’t run a shul, our Rabbi ran the shul, my home is used on Fridays for our meetings. What is taught to Gentile Pastors who are trying to mix Judaism into Christianity is the roots of Christianity – which is Judaism – no one says they have to worship on Shabbat, but those who want to learn more about their Jewish roots and to speak accurately about them to their congregations have enjoyed learning from our Rabbi. Mobius, our Shul was opened to the public, our Friday night services are not. This is my home afterall. Hence my unwillingness to post my number and address on our Shul’s site. Friday nights are for invitees and members only. I’m sure you can understand that.

  90. EV,
    I don’t see the need to even go to the historical problems of persecution. Even if they were the nicest people in the world, it is simply a different religion, which is more of a problem theologically than someone who just is lax religiously or completely secular.
    It’s the difference between not sleeping with your wife and sleeping with another woman.

  91. DK,
    I hear you. But some of the people coming to this site might not understand the vitriol among many of the Jewish posters against J4J missionaries, and without the historical background they might jump to the conclusion that Jews are irrationally intolerant of “good Christians” who have “seen the light,” etc.

  92. dixie, i searched high and low. the only sites anywhere on the web linking to truejewschool are aviad cohen’s and our’s. how would aviad have learned about this site without personal communication from you?
    if this site was intended strictly for the members of your community who no longer had a meeting place, as you’ve claimed, how and why would aviad cohen know about it?
    also, if it’s been meeting in your home, which hasn’t been destroyed, and it’s not tied to the synagogue, what’s with the following incongruous claim?
    “TrueJewSchool is the name of a study group my wife has held for 3 years in our home on Friday nights. We live in Slidell, Louisiana and our shul was located here in Slidell. Our shul was destroyed by hurricane Katrina as were the homes of so many of our congregants. In order to attempt to keep our congregation together, the shul decided to put up the web site.”

  93. 1. Aviad is on my daughter’s address book, she sent the link to him along with dozens of her friends.
    2. He learned about it from the site – when my child sent him the link….DUH
    3. The meetings are part of our Shuls outreach, but information regarding it is not on the site for several reasons, I don’t want to field phone calls from interested parties, we had the literature at our shul and folks get it there or they pick up a flyer and invite someone via the handout.
    4. Did you miss the part about most of our members being scattered hither and yon? I doubt many of them want to drive in on Friday nights from Texas, Arkansas, Florida, Canada and Pitsburg where so many of them fled. Kind of hard to keep it going that way don’t you think?
    Mobius, leave us alone. Quit trying to make this into something it never ever was. What you’ve done in your hatred of Aviad Cohen (and only you know what that is all about) is drag innocent folks into it, you’ve caused my family to have to endure threats, you’ve provoked other sites to ridicule handicapped kids, all in the name of what? True Judaism? Well thank you very much but even if I was a Messianic who was teetering on the brink of returning to traditional Judaism, this forum would have totally convinced me to run right back into the arms of Yeshua.
    I do want to say that I do forgive you for this. I am not fond of you for it, you’ve hurt me without a cause. But I’m putting it behind me. I can’t really have a good day with hurt and sadness hanging over my head, nor with bad feelings about others. My husband is tired of me crying over it. My little girl is keeps patting me and saying “you OK momma?”. So I have to be OK for her. I can’t be OK if I keep letting you hurt my feelings. So I’m just not going to do that anymore.
    I wish you the best on your site, I wish you G-d’s peace.

  94. except aviad wrote, “Ummmm….hellloooooo… I just found the site and linked to it.” but ok…enough. i’m closing the thread.

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