Shmuley On Moore
Shmuley Boteach sat down for a a conversation with Michael Moore last night at the RNC, baiting him with outright accusations of his being an antisemite and anti-Israel.
Boteach heard straight from the horse’s mouth why Moore is neither:
“Mr. Moore, you were quoted in the New York Times as saying that you place Israel in your own private axis of evil. It was very painful for Jews to read that. Do you stand by the quote?”
“No, I don’t, he said. That quote was taken completely out of context. I believe strongly in Israel’s security and Israel’s right to defend itself.”
“Well, Mr. Moore,” I said, “the impression, sadly, is that you’re an anti-Semite. That’s a shame. However much you and I disagree on the major issues, you shouldn’t come across as a Jew-hater. Joe Scarborough even asked me on his MSNBC show whether or not I believed you were an anti-Semite. That’s the impression you’ve been giving. I trust that you are not a Jew-hater. Indeed, I bet you don’t consider yourself any kind of hater. So why give that impression?”
He told me, “Of course I’m not a hater, and you would be surprised at just how little you and I disagree on all the issues, and on the Israel issue in particular. I really want to correct that, because I am not an enemy of Israel. I should really sit down and do an interview just about this, because I want it corrected.”
“You know,” I said, “there are people who want you to visit Israel, so you can see the situation there for yourself.”
“I like Israel,” he said, “I’ve visited twice, the first time during the first intafada.”
“Well, then you’ll know that Israelis are victims, too, and that they have suffered terribly under terrorism. But Jews have the impression that you don’t identify with Israeli suffering, that you forget that the Jews have suffered horrific oppression. And that’s a shame, because it undermines the morality of your message.”
He then said something that I did not expect. “I regard the Jewish people as the most oppressed people on earth.”
Boteach, clearly not getting the incriminating rise out of Moore he was searching for, and having no other excuse to brand him a rasha, then prints this absolutely ludicrous and propagandistic ad homenim attack on Moore for “defending a tyrant” by allegedly downplaying Saddam Husseins attrocities in F9/11:
Moore, too, was extremely friendly and, certainly not like Satan. He said to me, “It’s important that people know that I don’t have horns and a tail.” Agreed. But that doesn’t excuse him for defending and validating mass murderers who behave as though they certainly do.
Seriously, how does an 8 year-old like this maintain a career? He’s like a Hasidic tabloid journalist! The man’s raking muck like a pig farmer! Jeez!
Breathe Mo… Breathe.
Oh Please Mobius. Michael Moore is a genius propogandist. He lies even when he tells the truth because he doesn’t believe in truth. He’s just trying to make the most friends he can. When talking to Arabs, he talks about how Israel is a terrorist state, when talking to Jews he talks about how Jews need to protect themselves. You think if he supported Israel, Hezbollah would still be using his video as a propoganda tool in Lebanon? Moore compared the insurgents killing and executing Americans in Iraq to the minutemen of the American revolution. He’s not even from Flint, he’s from a rich white suburb next to Flint. He tries to make himself to be a common man, when in fact he’s just an angry asshole out to help America’s enemies. But I got to hand it to him, Fahrenheit 9/11 was a great film, although I don’t agree with anything he says in the movie. It was well done and is a great propoganda tool. Here’s a link that proves Moore’s anti-Israel attitude. You can make your own decision as to whether he’s anti-semitic.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/7/14/152821.shtml
the majority of that is laughable … getting a commendation from the arab adl proves he’s anti-israel? being anti-occupation is being anti-israel? thinking that the illicit ties between the pro-israel lobby and the u.s. government (such as those which yielded the recent spy scandal) are obscene makes you anti-israel? that makes at least 50% of israelis and 25% of american jews anti-israel!
and i’d prefer to see the original sources quoted than they’re “recaps”.
than their*
His distribution partnership with Hisbollah says a little more.
I don’t care for Boteach much, and his kid-gloves with Moore is a good example as to why he shouldn’t be speaking in public.
Moore has said things which would be pretty hard to swallow in any other context.
Israel is the axis of evil in a good way? I’m not sure I understand.
But I guess he is no more an Israel hater than most Jews who post here.
you guys are ridiculous
Where are the “farthest Right” posters that you claim exist in your EDITOR’S NOTE?
Where is the link to the extreme left website that you will refer the people who don’t like it?
And why do you suppose your site attracts the kind of people that would bug LGF?
he totally supports the international solidarity movement, and they don’t “like” israel.
First off, Moore never made any deals with Hezbollah about his movie. That is false.
Velvel, you and your right-wing friends are the true Israel haters. If you truely loved Israel, you would want peace in the region. As soon as anyone suggests that something Israel did doesnt help the peace process, you jump on it and say its anti Israel.
Anti-Israel means you want Israel to no longer exist. I hate Bush what this country is doing right now. But im not an America hater. I love America so i want what is best for it, and that is John Kerry. I love Israel, and i want what is best for it, Peace. There is no alternative to peace. By suggesting that we essentially give up on the peace proccess, you are basically saying that you like the terror attacks and you want them to continue, are you not? Or are you suggesting that we kill all Palestinians, in which case Israel would be worse than they are and they would loose all my support?
I dont see any other option: We make peace, we ignore the conflict, or we destroy the Palestinians. What else is there?
So explain to me why, if peace is the only solution that is Pro-israel, do people who promote peace and speak out against actions they feel are anti-peace, get ripped apart by right wing jews and branded as Anti-Israel.
Liberaljew: I don’t think you further your cause by calling Velvel anti-Israel. People have different ways of supporting Israel. What is true is that the ISM is beyond the pale and will attack Israel regardless– there are those who simply do not want Jews to have a homeland.
There are other options besides those you mentioned– peace requires two parties, and right now there is no Palestinian partner for peace. I hope there wll be sooner rather than later, but for now the best solution is for Israel to separate itself from the Palestinians as much as possible while doing the utmost to guarantee security for its civilians.
Re: Moore/Left, all I can say is that the virulence pointed at israel by leftist groups has me embarassed to associate with them generally. As much as I disagree with George Bush, you won’t see me at a rally next to hypocrtical Israel-bashers.
Lou, if you want to try to “prove” something, I suggest staying away from NewsMax. (They are about as impartial as Alternet, but without the integrity.)
Oh, and newsflash: organizations and people with axes to grind take things out of context and use them for their own purposes. Kind of like what you’re doing.
Anyway, I’m grateful to him for reminding us that in the United States, it is the people who are on the lower end of the economic spectrum who are out there fighting (and dying) for us. I far prefer rich guys who appreciate this then rich guys who take it for granted, like our current leadership.
You don’t have to like Michael Moore, but I do expect you to know how to spell “propaganda”.
Sweet. I love a good scrap. Look at what I miss when I am immersed in work. I don’t like Michael Moore cuz he’s just a bit too smug for my liking – like he has some kind of monopoly on truth. I also hate his fucking omnipresent baseball cap. That being said he sure is entertaining – he shows that demagoguery can be funny too! As for Shmuley – well, his stuff often pisses me off, but his heter on oral sex alone justifies 10,000 stupid articles as far as I’m concerned.
velvel — you and your ilk are the right wingers whose views are welcome on our site. however, our posters, generally, tend to be moderate and left. that’s because there are 1000 jewish websites that look at israel from a right wing perspective. as far as i know, we’re the only overtly jewish weblog that maintains a degree of reverence for traditional judaism and for jewry in general that approaches the subject from the left. and i ain’t giving that up…
further, considering how repulsively smug folks like you tend to be, why on earth would i invite you or your ilk to post on my website?
Mobius– are you going to tell me that Asaf and JB (and probably me) aren’t smug?
Mo,
I’m not telling you to have people post right-wing stuff. I’m telling you to change your very misleading Editor’s Note.
It should say:
“…from a number of perspectives on Judaism and Zionism, all of which are equally valid and welcome in this forum, from the farthest Left to the not-as-far-Left.”
I’m with you Mo – fuck a schmuley
Shmuely annoys the hell out of me. Mo if you don’t lilke him why did you do his website?
I have been reading things on this site for several weeks. It seems to me that the people who are claiming to be open-minded and want peace for Israel only want it if it thier peace plan. If it involves any ideas other than giving the PA power then they don’t like the idea.
Peace will come. The question is will the peace that come be survivable by both sides. Anything less is not true peace.
Mo,
Can you “handle being challenged?”
Seems to me there are many sides represented here perhaps not always equally, but then it’s not a contest is it?
Velvel, if you feel the right wing is underrepresented on this site invite more rightwingers to share their opinions and reasonings here.
Only one thing to remember- express your opinion all you like but when there is no respect between people and it turns from a spirited debate grounding in facts and theories to ugly mud slinging that’s when we lose our strength as a people.
I love the exchange of ideas on this site, but I hate the name calling and petty squabbling (cept when it’s in fun of course).
And yes, I am very shy of confrontation.
“Jewschool offers a wide array of opinions coming from a number of perspectives on Judaism and Zionism, all of which are equally valid and welcome in this forum, from the farthest Left to the farthest Right.”
I find the “all of which are equally valid” part confusing. Am I really expected to believe that ANYONE finds ALL of a number of perspectives valid? How is this possible? Don’t these perspectives often contradict one another? And what if I disagreed with the “equally valid” principle? Would my disagreement be equally valid?
Although it would be a little less warm and fuzzy, I think it would be more accurate, in terms of what actually happens on this site, to say something like “we won’t necessarily agree with what you say, but if your’e serious and can be reasonably civil, we’ll take you seriously enough to tell you why we disagree”.
velvel — to say that you are welcome to voice your opinion in this forum is consistent with the editor’s note. if, for example, i were to voice my opinions from the left on LGF, whose posts come solely from the right, i’d be banned from the site. in fact, I AM banned from the site. shit, i’m banned from just linking to the site. on jewschool, you can call me a stupid liberal who doesn’t know shit and I won’t ban you. your opinions, no matter how irritating and infuriating to me, are welcome here. your arrogance less so, but fuck it, i’m not about to block your IP range for not knowing how to be civil and thinking you know everything. i’m just going to tell you: you’re a cock. but i’m open to keep talking.
j — i think everyone’s perspective is valid in that i feel that, for one, each perspective is just another way of god telling us something useful about the universe. i also believe that reality is entirely subjective and relative to the experience of the individual, and therefore, to say that velvel is ‘wrong’ for example, means that, to me, in my understanding and experience, he’s wrong, but in a greater truer sense, he may be right, and is so certainly for himself. thus his perspective is valid because it’s just another way of looking at things and getting a deeper understanding of them from an alternate angle. doesn’t mean i agree… doesn’t mean i have to agree. just means, you’re entitled to believe what you want up to the point where you force your ideas on me.
Hey mobius!
You’re stoopid and you don’t know shit!
And yes, I am a cock, so don’t even bother going there.
.
.
.
You said I could say that!
😉
I don’t know Mo, I think J is right…
Not all opinions are valid.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can feel free to express it, I agree with that.
But some opinions are just based on misinformation, lies, distortions.
As an extreme example:
How about the Jew haters that pop up here from time to time- are their opinions about our people “valid.” I think not.
Ignorant bastard,
I will start the quote a little earlier…
“JEWSCHOOL OFFERS a wide array of opinions coming from a number of perspectives on…”
You may be offering a forum for the commentors, but I think your Note implies that these opinions are coming from those associated with Jewschool. If someone was coming to this site and just saw the headlines and articles without clicking through to the comments, one would barely see anything not virulently left, valuing religious Moslems over religious Jews and valuing liberalism over than halacha.
Jewschool does not offer any opinions on the right. Only about four, independent commentors, who have to defend reality to any viewers who manage to click through and read past all the garbage.
Asshole..
“j — i think everyone’s perspective is valid in that i feel that, for one, each perspective is just another way of god telling us something useful about the universe. i also believe that reality is entirely subjective and relative to the experience of the individual, and therefore, to say that velvel is ‘wrong’ for example, means that, to me, in my understanding and experience, he’s wrong, but in a greater truer sense, he may be right, and is so certainly for himself. thus his perspective is valid because it’s just another way of looking at things and getting a deeper understanding of them from an alternate angle. doesn’t mean i agree… doesn’t mean i have to agree. just means, you’re entitled to believe what you want up to the point where you force your ideas on me.”
Mobius – I think that response just made things worse. It’s an attitude that on the surface seems open and tolerant, but when thought about is actually diametrically opposed to any possibility of reasoned debate as an alternative to name-calling or violence. Also, it’s self-contradictory. If I disagree with you about reality being subjective, can I be as right as you? Is your statement about subjectivity a subjective statement in itself, or is it objectively true (if so, why should it be the one exception to your rule?). Further, it contradicts your last sentence – “you’re entitled to believe what you want up to the point where you force your ideas on me.” Isn’t that sentence merely your own subjective idea (rather than a universally-binding axiom)? If so, it’s just as valid for someone else to believe that it’s just fine for him to force his ideas on you.
Any explanation?
The “everyone is right” attitude is a perfect example of flawed liberalism.
Moore is not a “hater”. Lol, that is rather amusing.
Moore is not a bigot. To be a bigot you must hate one or several groups. Moore hates everyone equally, unless they agree with him.