U.S. State Department Report: Demographic Reality is Here Today
The U.S. State Department has released its annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2004. The report provided population figures for Israel and the territories and the surprising news is that while Israeli demographers have been saying for a number of years that eventually somewhere down the line, Arabs would outnumber Jews – apparently that is now already the reality on the ground.
The section on Israel and the Occupied Territories states that the population of Israel stands at 6.8 million, of whom 5.2 million are Jews, 1.3 million Arabs and another 290,000 are other minorities. The report then notes that the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip stands at approximately 1.4 million while in the West Bank it is approximately 2.4 million. There are 237,185 Palestinians in Occupied East Jerusalem.
Therefore the Arab population stands at over 5.3 million while the Jewish population stands at 5.2 million.
do those figures include the jewish populations of the occupied territories? if not…
“The population of the Gaza Strip was approximately 1.4 million, of the West Bank (excluding East Jerusalem) approximately 2.4 million, and of East Jerusalem approximately 414,518, including 177,333 Israelis.”
Notice how Jews constitute 43% of “Arab” East Jerusalem. And the numbers for East Jerusalem were already included in the numbers for Israel. Notice how much more precise those numbers are compared to the West Bank and Gaza.
Where did the State Dept. get its population figures for the West Bank and Gaza. They probably used the outdated “projected” figures from 1994. But those numbers proved false: the birth rates did not correspond, and the emigration was higher.
werd. see: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n…
Yeah, worldnetdaily is a great source. almost as “fair & balanced” as counterpunch.
Robbie, JohnBrown and any other believers in the demographic danger can pick anything article to read from here:
http://www.pademographics.com/…
“Indeed, the total fertility rate of Palestinian women has been trending downward in recent years. Palestinian women in Judea and Samaria averaged 4.1 children in 1999 and 3.4 in 2003. Palestinian women in Gaza averaged 5 children each in 1999 and 4.7 in 2003.â€
I live in Yesha and have traveled around a bit as well. The ‘west bank’ isn’t teeming with millions of Arabs as the demographic doomsdayers would have you believe.
Notice that even when the birthrates dropped during a time of incressed hardship, they are still much higher then the rest of Israel. So to keep them low, you need to keep up the violence, or they will probably go back to their previous levels. Either way, the demographics are not on our side. I suggest you move out of the Yesha.
wait, you know that there aren’t millions of Arabs in the West Bank because you’ve “traveled around a bit?”
you must have a hell of an eye…
Well Jewish Israel parents and young couples better get start working!!!
Democracy can be scary, especially when in the context of occupation.
RIGHT BUT BB HAS TO MAKE SURE THE RELIGOUS PEOPLE DONT HAVE TOO MANY CHILDREN SWEET JUSTICE
Boooooooooooriiiing
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17 You may say to yourselves, “These nations are stronger than we are. How can we drive them out?” 18 But do not be afraid of them; remember well what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all Egypt. 19 You saw with your own eyes the great trials, the miraculous signs and wonders, the mighty hand and outstretched arm, with which the LORD your God brought you out. The LORD your God will do the same to all the peoples you now fear. 20
this really is incredible. apologies if it’s already been linked but you will thank us for this is you haven’t seen it already:
here
and at “homepage”.
mobius, electronic intifada claims to have called the state dept. to ask whether the 6.8 million Israelis (5.2 million Jews) figure includes the settlers, and to have gotten a positive response:
http://electronicintifada.net/…
Admittedly, however this doesn’t speak to your question about how they calculated the Palestinian numbers.
So maybe forced transfer is the key to fixing this issue?
Solomyr,
I’m actually about to buy a new home in Yesha. I’m not going anywhere.
Correct RightIsRight,
That is the only solution. All else is waste of time.
The sooner they are moved out of Israel the less bloodshed there will be in the future both for us and for them.
Beyond the obvious fact that it’s grotesquely immoral… Do you honestly think Israel could withstand the inevitable sanctions that would result from full-on ethnic cleansing of all Arabs from Israel and the territories? I don’t.
Those sanction are coming anyway.
In a few short years they will be forced to take such action amidst much bloodshed first of jews then of arabs. The most left-wing of them who will be in power will be the ones doing it-because there will be no choice.
You more than the silly ostrich-like right-wingers like Josh should understand that. You recognize that the demographic threat is here. You know that they want Israel to be palestine. If you don’t know that then on that point you are being ostrage-like by burying your head.
They say it every day you know that.
The point is that there is no choice in the end.
We should do it now with the least bloodshed rather than just waiting…
Maybe we ought to head over to Birobidzhan or Uganda…
JohnBrown,
you fully support the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Judea, Samaria and Gaza so when will you just shut up about why it’s only grotesquely immoral when it Arabs? Once again, you show that you fantasize about it, but just don’t think it’s practical or that we could withstand the subsequent sanctions.
But FWIW, joeschmoe is right. The sanctions will be coming soon anyways, no matter what reason that ‘we’ deserve it, our secular-un-zionistic government brings it on us, or the goyim just get tired of the Jews that just don’t know when to roll over and die.
But,
“ostrich-like”?
actually, people do think I have a long neck. Do I know you?
:-p
Josh if you think that is no demographic threat then yes you bury youe head in the sands of Judea – its not only a threat its now.
I don’t believe that there’s a demographic threat because I try to have full and true faith in Gd that he will guide us to victory, no matter what. I also don’t think that this demographic bomb will reach critical mass before American Jewry starts/is forced to make aliyah.
FWIW, I truly believe that the ingathering of the exiles has started and only four major galut populations are left to come over: US, France, UK, Canada. In the meantime, we are rarely exposed to the statistics of the rhigh birthrates in the in the charedi world, or hte rising birthrates in the orthodox populations as well.
Some prominent secular leaders in Jerusalem came to the charedi mayor about their worries about the gradual charedization of the city. He thanked them for coming and told them the only solution – make more babies.
Josh,
Your faith in G-d is fine but since when does He not punish and not allow what we do to ourselves happen to us? Even if this is the last ingathering how do you know that terrible things can’t happen along the way?
Maybe we can argue that He will allow to come upon us what we cause. Don’t you know about the wars of Gog Umagog in which terrible things might happen? Don’t you know what chazal commented on Isaiah 60:22 “I am G-d, in its time I will hasten it.” If we merit it – it shall be hastened (and without tragedy along with it). If not it will come in its time …..with tragedy.
I apologize Josh but faith in G-d unfortunately does not imply that what you fear will not happen.
honest question about settler theology from someone who thinks he is really opposed to it but would like to understand it better: what makes you think that the present really is the last ingathering, josh, rather than just a series of fortuitous human-initiated political events?
and yeah, joe schmoe’s question: how do you know that this isn’t just hubris and that we won’t get kicked out of the land again for it? “you will soon disappear from the good land the LORD is giving you…”
i understand that the gush emunim developed some ideas about how the secular zionists were fulfilling a holy mission — is that what you subscribe to?
And since when did the State Department become a disinterested source with regards to anything Israeli. Regardless of what you consider the demographic problem to be or what it’s solution is, I highly doubt the numbers handed out by foggy bottom arabists.
Sam,
I can at least explain my position- Josh will have to explain himself.
Everything in this world is controlled and allowed to exist by G-d. Does that mean that if you stand in the street in front of a car nothing will happen? No. If you are our father in heaven’s friend maybe He will save you but if not why will He – He might just let the bad thing happen.
Therefore when we see events in the world happen that are not the norm we have to ask ourselves why did that bad thing happen or why did that good thing happen? Am I not a good son?! Why would that abnormal thing happen to me? Why wasn’t I saved even though times were tough?
The question is how a person reacts and interprets events.
The Jewish people were told time and time again by Moses our master and then thorugh many prophets throughout the ages that there will be consequences to our actions and that if we spit on our father he will not protect us but if we love and follow Him He will protect us as a father protects his child.
I see the history of Europe and how beginning with the enlightenment in the late 1700’s until the early 1900’s, for more than 100 yrs, Jews rejected their heritage. They said that we are like the other nations we are not chosen. Our father is dead is what they said! How can I in honesty ask questions about what happened-even if I cry about it.
On the flip side when Europe and Germany were all but destroyed after that and when even years later there is “ethnic cleansing” by the serbs of the bosnians and others bad things I also understand that. Everyone in the end gets their payment.
Why was it that Jews were upset by what was happening to the bosnians?! Don’t they know that the bosnians and croats were allies with Hitler??!! They also had camps to kill Jews!
Yes G-d punishes in the end.
When I see how Israel lets murderers walk in their midst and Jews allow themselves to be killed and they further silence those who raise a voice against it and also have no fear of G-d- Do I question G-d and say “how can you let these bombs go off??”-Of course not! because I understand that we are responsible.
If we act as his child only then will he act as our Father.
Joe — I understand your fundamental orientation here; it’s the basic Deuteronomic crime/punishment scheme.
What I don’t get is how you authorize yourself to know which are the punishments, and for which crimes. Things which look like punishments can later turn out to be blessings, and things which look like blessings can later turn out to be punishments. We can’t see the whole world, and we can never know all the effects of an individual event or action. Therefore, I don’t think it’s possible for any human being to know whether a specific bad thing or good thing, while obviously “allowed” by God to happen since everything is, is actually a punishment or blessing. And beyond that, it seems even more impossible to link that thing to some specific sin or praiseworthy deed.
Although it is true that we can’t know for sure that a specific “punishment” or seemingly bad event is for a specific “crime.” The reason that we can’t is that there are multiple things happening at all times-so how would we know that something happened due to one thing and not the other.
Nevertheless we do know that it is like that in general-in the same manner that we can say that mechanics know more about cars than the average person-do we know for sure that mechanic A knows more than non-mechanic B? No we can’t say that but in general we can say.
Why something happened to an individual I would not venture to say. Do I know what that person did or did not do in secret? Maybe there is some test and the person is righteous like by Job.
So you see, I am not completely disagreeing with you.
On the other hand, when major events happen to nations and/or the world we are warned not to be stubborn and say “it is all chance and we will continue walking in our joly way…”
If it is not chance then what general thing should we look for?
-We look for the covenant did we break it or did we keep it?
By the way its not just in Deuteronomy it is in all the scriptures. Here is one quote fron leviticus chap 26: “26,23 …And if in spite of these (bad) things ye will not be corrected unto Me, but will walk contrary unto Me; 26,24 then will I also walk contrary unto you; and I will smite you, even I, seven times for your sins…”-‘contrary’ here (old English) means ignoring acting as if its just happenstance ie chance.