Israel News Roundup
JPost reports,
The ruling Fatah faction headed by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) is facing a major crisis after scores of young guard activists resigned over the weekend, accusing senior officials of mismanagement and corruption. […] The young leaders who quit were all from the West Bank. They said the revolt was directed against veteran Fatah leaders who returned with Arafat from exile in 1994 and who served as members of the central committee. […] The young leaders fear that, unless their faction reforms and introduces democracy, Hamas will also make a strong showing in July’s election for the Palestinian Legislative Council. […] “Unfortunately, we have discovered that nothing has changed since Arafat’s death,” [said Shobaki, a rebel leader]. “Fatah needs an internal revolution to reorganize its affairs on a democratic basis.”
As I noted in a recent post on Orthodox Anarchist, the primary reason why Hamas has been gaining in the polls within the Palestinian territories is not because people “support terrorism,” but rather because they see Hamas as a less corrupt alternative to Fatah, which is democratizing and responding to the interests of the Palestinian street (which favors making peace with Israel and accepting a two-state solution along the ’67 borders). This incident reflects that statement entirely: The Palestinian people want reform — they want democracy. And now that Arafat’s boot is no longer on their neck, they’re no longer willing to take “No” for an answer. Thus, I feel, this should be seen as an inherently positive and momentous event. Whether Fatah will respond appropriately at this point and actually introduce reform within its ranks, however, is anyone’s guess.
Also in JPost today, an op-ed entitled “Back To Thugocracy”, which rails on the PA’s reintroduction of its execution policy for “collaborators.”
Of the 15 inmates on death row [in the Palestinian territories], none are terrorists, but about half were convicted for “collaborating with Israel.” Presumably the latter offense includes helping Israel foil suicide bombings. By our book that not only is the last deed for which one ought to be put to death, but it is precisely what the PA ought to be encouraging.
It’s hard to argue with this position, particularly if the PA is being honest about its national reforms. Over the weekend the PA seized a weapons cache from a terror faction in Hebron, an action which came on the heels of last week’s attack in Tel Aviv, following which PA President Abu Mazen declared that “such actions will not be tolerated by us as they are against the Palestinian interests.” If the PA will not tolerate attacks on Israel, why will it not permit Palestinians from warning Israeli security forces about coming attacks? The only line of reasoning I can conjure is that perhaps (being that Israel can by no means be truly perceived of as an ally of the Palestinians) the PA would prefer that they are notified so that they can prevent the attacks, instead of giving Israel justification for making incursions into the areas from which the attacks are originating, nor further giving Israel a basis to make blanket statements that the PA is not doing enough to prevent terrorism. The question then is, how can one drop a tip to PA security forces considering how corrupt they are and what harm this can bring to the individual dropping the tip themselves? My recommendation: An anonymous tip-line at PA headquarters that’s monitored by an NGO. Pass it on…
On the other end of things, Haaretz reports that government funds provided to the YESHA council to administer civil services were used to promote illegal settlement activity in the occupied territories. Full story here.
Also from Haaretz today comes clamor about the recently released results of a survey conducted by the Jewish Agency which found that American Jewish youth are finding themselves more ambivalent towards Israel. According to Ynet, 40% of those polled found Israelis to be excessively militant and nationalistic. This may be directly or indirectly related to another concern put forward in today’s Haaretz, that American Jews are now more likely to give to local charities than to Jewish and Israeli causes — a finding by the UJC which is feeling the effects of this decline. How this will, in turn, effect Israeli and North American Jewish communities in the near future is yet to be seen, but it certainly does demonstrate a growing distaste among America’s Jewish population with establishment Jewry in America and the Jewish state.
Akiva Eldar always brings a smile to my face.
Otherwise, we would never hear about how the pioneer settlers are building eretz yisrael. You might say that he exposes the ‘corruption’? Well, I wonder why he never seems to have anything good to say about settlers and settlements, and how many abide by the law to the letter whether it’s about buying land, having proper ‘building plans’, etc…
“the primary reason why Hamas has been gaining in the polls within the Palestinian territories is not because people “support terrorism,” but rather because they see Hamas as a less corrupt alternative to Fatah”
WIshful thinking, isnt it?
actually, no … hamas is less corrupt than fatah. and the proof is in the pudding. as i note on o.a., hamas is bringing in the most respected, non-corrupted members of local palestinian communities to run on their ticket — even those who have opposed their platform in the past. now that israel’s taken out rantisi and yassin, hamas has no clear agenda, so their only choice is to respond to the will of the palestinian public. they’re taking their cues from the people now — not from advocates of terror.
Moby Moby…
You are soo naive. You even bring proof against yourself. You quote the jpost who laments the 15 inmates in PA deathrow for being collaborators – not terrorists.
But you still harp on and say – they are just corrupt thats all. You keep repeating: They don’t support terrorism…what do you think everyone on this site is stupid?
Its not complicated, I’ll explain it to you slowly:
The PA is BOTH corrupt is a supporter of terrorist murderers- Hamas is less corrupt but is also a supporter of terrorist murderers.
Now you understand? Enough BS already!
firstly, if you continue to condescend to me i will happily ban you from this forum. either engage in debate like a reasonable adult or bid farewell to your priveleges here, as bukkake has just done.
now to address your remarks — what i said was that the reason palestinians are voting for hamas has nothing to do with supporting terrorism and everything to do with supporting democratic reform. i don’t see how i could’ve been any more clear in making the statement.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, I don’t care what they say, lets see what they do, and I have little to no faith in them to begin with. I believe Eban said it best The PA has never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity
You are right the only difference to the palestinians between them is that the PA is more corrupt. Thats the point!
As far as terrorism goes they both (PA and HAMAS) support it -so there is no reason for the palestinians to distinguish them by that.
They are only different in terms of corruption.
Thats the point you are missing.
When you write:
Moby: “the primary reason why Hamas has been gaining in the polls within the Palestinian territories is not because people “support terrorism,” but rather because they see Hamas as a less corrupt alternative to Fatah,”
You are making the wrong implication. You just ignore what you yourself quote right after. Moby: “Of the 15 inmates on death row [in the Palestinian territories], none are terrorists, but about half were convicted for “collaborating with Israel.”
Come on whats up? Isn’t it clear that they both support terrorism?! -that on the terrorism count the palestinians support both-but its only a corruption difference thats makes them different?!
Listen Moby, if you want to ban me fine. It has been done to others – I wont be the first.
At the same time you have to understand that it is extremely frusterating for me when people (not just you) bring arguments on a constant basis that seem to me to take part of the facts into account and ignore the other facts (such as the second quote from you above) and thus come to conclusions that to me are totally off. The frusteration builds when it is done continuously even after it being pointed out.
Yeah Bukkake seems like a nice chap.
1. if you saw bukkake’s last comment to me, you’d know why he was banned.
2. lessons from the intifada:
åéñø äîìê à ú èáòúå. à îø øáé à áà áø ëäðà : âãåìä äñøú èáòú éåúø îà øáòéà åùîåðä ðåéà éà åùáò ðåéà åú ùðúðáà å ìäï ìéùøà ì, ùëåìï ìà äçæéøåà ìîåèá, åà éìå äñøú äèáòú äçæéøúï ìîåèá –– îâéìä ð÷øà ú ôø÷ øà ùåï
ie., the only thing jews understand is violence. can you fault them for choosing terror as a tactic? according to chazal, talking doesn’t work with us, and never has.
oh sorry, that should be ðáéà éà åðáéà åú
Jo – why not start your own blog then?
Now that we’ve had time to swallow the ‘efforts’ Abu Mazen has been making lately to fight ‘militants’, the consensus seems that he’s not fighting militants at all, merely just trying to get rid of competing mafias.
OK MOBIUS you should also know that the majority (more thne half actually) of American Jews dont care about Judaism that much in general.They are intermarrying,assimilat ing and disappearing and I fail to see how you as an Orthodox Jew suddenly take their opinion as important.
Elliot that is a large endeavor. I’m trying limit myself now to once a day or two. Anyway would you come to a blog run by the likes of me?
Moby nice quote. Its true that we only learn by force unfortunately. The question is what do we not learn and who is causing the force. One way is to say that the palestinians are causing it so we should listen to them and abdicate Israel. Another way is to say that like by the quote about Purim G-d is causing it so we should listen and either keep the Torah and/or remove those who hate us and desacrate all our Holy places they can get their hands on.
Here is a similar quote to match the second way:
åÇéÌÇòÂùÒåÌ áÀðÅé-éÄùÒÀøÈà Åì à Æú-äÈøÇò, áÌÀòÅéðÅé éÀäåÈä; åÇéÌÇòÇáÀãåÌ, à Æú-äÇáÌÀòÈìÄéÃ. á,éá åÇéÌÇòÇæÀáåÌ à Æú-éÀäåÈä à ÃìÉäÅé à ÂáåÉúÈÃ, äÇîÌåÉöÄéà à åÉúÈà îÅà ÆøÆõ îÄöÀøÇéÄÃ, åÇéÌÅìÀëåÌ à ÇçÂøÅé à ÃìÉäÄéà à ÂçÅøÄéà îÅà ÃìÉäÅé äÈòÇîÌÄéà à ÂùÑÆø ñÀáÄéáåÉúÅéäÆÃ, åÇéÌÄùÑÀúÌÇçÂååÌ ìÈäÆÃ; åÇéÌÇëÀòÄñåÌ, à Æú-éÀäåÈä. á,éâ åÇéÌÇòÇæÀáåÌ, à Æú-éÀäåÈä; åÇéÌÇòÇáÀãåÌ ìÇáÌÇòÇì, åÀìÈòÇùÑÀúÌÈøåÉú. á,éã åÇéÌÄçÇø-à Çó éÀäåÈä, áÌÀéÄùÒÀøÈà Åì, åÇéÌÄúÌÀðÅà áÌÀéÇã-ùÑÉñÄéÃ, åÇéÌÈùÑÉñÌåÌ à åÉúÈÃ; åÇéÌÄîÀëÌÀøÅà áÌÀéÇã à åÉéÀáÅéäÆÃ, îÄñÌÈáÄéá, åÀìÉà -éÈëÀìåÌ òåÉã, ìÇòÂîÉã ìÄôÀðÅé à åÉéÀáÅéäÆÃ. á,èå áÌÀëÉì à ÂùÑÆø éÈöÀà åÌ, éÇã-éÀäåÈä äÈéÀúÈä-áÌÈà ìÀøÈòÈä, ëÌÇà ÂùÑÆø ãÌÄáÌÆø éÀäåÈä, åÀëÇà ÂùÑÆø ðÄùÑÀáÌÇò éÀäåÈä ìÈäÆÃ; åÇéÌÅöÆø ìÈäÆÃ, îÀà Éã. á,èæ åÇéÌÈ÷Æà éÀäåÈä, ùÑÉôÀèÄéÃ; åÇéÌåÉùÑÄéòåÌÃ, îÄéÌÇã ùÑÉñÅéäÆÃ. á,éæ åÀâÇà à Æì-ùÑÉôÀèÅéäÆÃ, ìÉà ùÑÈîÅòåÌ–ëÌÄé æÈðåÌ à ÇçÂøÅé à ÃìÉäÄéà à ÂçÅøÄéÃ, åÇéÌÄùÑÀúÌÇçÂååÌ ìÈäÆÃ: ñÈøåÌ îÇäÅø, îÄï-äÇãÌÆøÆêÀ à ÂùÑÆø äÈìÀëåÌ à ÂáåÉúÈà ìÄùÑÀîÉòÇ îÄöÀåÉú-éÀäåÈä– ìÉà -òÈùÒåÌ ëÅï. á,éç åÀëÄé-äÅ÷Äéà éÀäåÈä ìÈäÆÃ, ùÑÉôÀèÄéÃ, åÀäÈéÈä éÀäåÈä òÄÃ-äÇùÌÑÉôÅè, åÀäåÉùÑÄéòÈà îÄéÌÇã à ÉéÀáÅéäÆà ëÌÉì éÀîÅé äÇùÌÑåÉôÅè: ëÌÄé-éÄðÌÈçÅà éÀäåÈä îÄðÌÇà Â÷ÈúÈÃ, îÄôÌÀðÅé ìÉçÂöÅéäÆà åÀãÉçÂ÷ÅéäÆÃ. á,éè åÀäÈéÈä áÌÀîåÉú äÇùÌÑåÉôÅè, éÈùÑËáåÌ åÀäÄùÑÀçÄéúåÌ îÅà ÂáåÉúÈÃ, ìÈìÆëÆú à ÇçÂøÅé à ÃìÉäÄéà à ÂçÅøÄéÃ, ìÀòÈáÀãÈà åÌìÀäÄùÑÀúÌÇçÂåÉ ú ìÈäÆÃ: ìÉà äÄôÌÄéìåÌ îÄîÌÇòÇìÀìÅéäÆÃ, åÌîÄãÌÇøÀëÌÈà äÇ÷ÌÈùÑÈä. á,ë åÇéÌÄçÇø-à Çó éÀäåÈä, áÌÀéÄùÒÀøÈà Åì
and so on…–[Shoftim 2:11]
AlexBMN, why do think Moby is religious?
“they see Hamas…which is democratizing and responding to the interests of the Palestinian street (which favors making peace with Israel and accepting a two-state solution along the ’67 borders)”
Hamas has accepted Israel’s right to exist at the 67 boarders according to the democratic will of the noble peace-loving Palestinians?!! Hooray! Unicorns are pretty.
well hasnt he stated that he’s orthodox? he doesnt post on shabbat either,
MObius whats with the banning of Bukkake, or the threatening of banning everyone?? I’ve seen harsher remarks from you on many occassions, when did THis site become a fascist dictatorship?????
I fail to see how you as an Orthodox Jew suddenly take their opinion as important.
man, i’m slowly doing teshuva here… and just because i’m makhmir about some things doesn’t mean that i hold any beef towards secular jewry. that’d be retahded.
One way is to say that the palestinians are causing it so we should listen to them and abdicate Israel.
since when is the land of the phillistines israel?
Hooray! Unicorns are pretty.
Hamas recognizes 1967 borders for first time
By Arnon Regular, Haaretz Correspondent
Hamas has distributed a document outlining a joint Palestinian leadership program in which the organization, for the first time in its existence, unequivocally recognizes the 1967 borders and adopts the main principle guiding Fatah: the establishment of a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital.
The document, which proposes that Hamas work with Fatah and other Palestinian organizations, is a combination of internal documents prepared by Hamas over the last two years, some of which were first published in Haaretz. But changes have been made over the last few days, and especially after the meeting between Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas with Gazan Hamas leaders Mahmoud al-Zahar, Ismail Haniya and Said al-Siam this week.
The new version of the document says that one of the principles proposed by Hamas for a joint leadership is “a commitment to ending the occupation and establishment of an independent, fully sovereign Palestinian state, whose capital is Jerusalem.” Until now, the organization leaders had issued similar statements about agreeing in principle to cease-fires or a long-term hudna, but it has never delivered an official document to other factions, starting with Fatah, in which they de facto recognize the political principles of Fatah.
On the one hand, the document emphasizes the “legitimacy of the armed struggle, the political struggle and all the jihadist means that the Palestinian people used and uses to achieve freedom and independence, concentrating all the efforts to condemn the occupation in all its forms in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, and every centimeter occupied by foreign forces.”
But at the same time, it includes an article calling for improving relations with the world in general and the West in particular, “on a moral basis and political principles that will preserve the rights of our people and guarantee an end to the aggression.”
The document was finalized in the wake of heavy pressure on Hamas leaders by Abbas during their meeting Tuesday night in Gaza City. At the two-hour meeting, Palestinian sources said they saw Abbas tell Hamas leaders that he intends to deploy the Palestinian security services to prevent all military activity by all the organizations throughout Gaza and he demanded a commitment from them to cease all their military activity.
The demand was accompanied with similar threats by Fatah leaders in Gaza toward Hamas to accept the framework of a general cease-fire and not to clash with the current Palestinian leadership. According to Palestinian sources, the Hamas leaders officially promised to respond to the demands by Sunday but in effect have already complied with the demands.
The document has already been delivered to other factions and reflects Hamas recognition that it cannot oppose the security steps planned by Abbas to cease the rocket fire into Israel and the attacks on the settlements.
Like other documents published in the past, it is called a “covenant of honor” meant to formulate “a general national policy” for the Palestinians. But its language and content reflect the current weakness of the organization compared to the joint operations of the Palestinian security services and the Fatah movement, which are united behind Abbas.
“The Zionist enemy is the main enemy of the Palestinian people because it conquered our land and expelled our nation,” says Article 4 of the document, which says that the withdrawal from Gaza will be “a national achievement for the armed struggle and the result of steadfast commitment to the legitimate right to oppose aggression and the occupation.”
For now, the document remains a proposal to Fatah and the Palestinian Authority that has not yet been adopted. It defines “cooperation or information exchanges and security cooperation with the occupation” as a “crime that must be accompanied by heavy punishments.”
The document calls for the establishment of a joint leadership for all the organizations and calls national Palestinian unity a main value for Palestinian society. A substantial part of Abbas’ own campaign platform is detailed in the document, such as adoption of the rule of law and order, the deployment of the security services according to clear laws and defense of political pluralism and freedom of association and assembly.
Article six of the document says “the elections in the Palestinian territories will be the main instrument for deciding all the main political issues that face the Palestinians.” The article is similar in essence to Abbas’ promise to bring any future agreement with Israel to a national referendum.
MObius whats with the banning of Bukkake, or the threatening of banning everyone?? I’ve seen harsher remarks from you on many occassions, when did THis site become a fascist dictatorship?????
when a dozen of my writers told me they stopped posting because they were intimidated and offended by the commentors on the site who seemed to offer nothing but bile and hatred no matter what the subject.
if that’s the way my writers feel, i can imagine how some of the other readers feel. and so, i’m cleaning house.
you think this is a fascist dictatorship? so what? my house, my rules. who said jewschool was a democratic institution? do you get to print what’s in the letters to the editor column of your local paper?
and finally, there are only two things that will get you banned from jewschool currently:
1. overt racism
2. attacking an individual rather than discussing the topic from which the thread extends
bukkake wrote a post that basically said, “mobius you’re a fucking moron eat shit and die i hate you, you’re as stupid as a stump.”
if you spoke like that in my house, i’d throw you out. so i threw him out.
Mob,
how’s about a ‘who we are’ link next to the ‘where the party’ link is?