When LGFers Attack
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:58:28 EST
Subject: ???
Just saw your website, and I have to say I am confused, very. I am Jewish but why do I get the feeling you people that run the site are self hating Jews? Have you checked out the shirts you are selling jewschool sto’ | CafePress Jewish Jihad? What the hell is that supposed to mean. You post some pretty crazy stuff thats happening in the world of Judaism and I dont know if you people are self hating yourselves or not? Please explain, even the border of the site is a little disturbing in a way?
~
From: mobius1
To: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:14:56 -0500
Subject: Re: ???
self-hating jew is a term used by ethnocentric right-wingers (aka jewish supremacists, who dispicably use torah and other scriptural sources to substantiate their place “over” goyim) to dismiss jews who have gall enough to question the jewish establishment’s stance on the israel-palestine conflict and other subjects. anyone who merely suggests that palestinians are entitled to the same rights as jewish people are immediately dismissed by these zealots as being self-hating. it’s insulting, and it’s wrong. i do not hate myself, i do not hate my jewish identiy, nor my jewish heritage, nor do i hate judaism. (in fact, come may, i very may well be moving to israel for a year to study in yeshiva in jerusalem.) what i hate, truthfully, is having to share the honor of being jewish with intolerant racists and arrogant jerks who think that questioning israel’s military policy is somehow evil. it’s not–it’s our duty as jewish people.
as for that t-shirt–it is a piece of satire aimed at ridiculing the suggestion that we jews who differ from the establishment are self-hating, or worse, capitulating to terrorism. it’s a joke.
and finally, the banner is merely reflective of our jewish cultural heritage, from the most orthodox to the most secular; from the far right to the far left. i don’t see why it should be considered disturbing.
~
From: [email protected]
To: mobius1
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:47:27 EST
Subject: Re: ???
listen pal i dont have time to read your crap, it was a yes or no question ok you are very disturbed individual go it. satire or no satire people take it to the wrong offense and if you dont like, blow it out your ass
~
From: mobius1
To: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:56:47 -0500
Subject: Re: ???
sir,
your aunt, her neck, and all her personal affects.
mobius1
See, if you’re going to attack Mo, you need to do it with grace. “Blow it out your ass” immidiately discredits you. For shame.
Thank you for posting his initial e-mail. Beyond our duty to question Sharon’s policies, we are also duty-bound to question our own methods.
mo didn’t say that.. the lgf did.
i don’t think jason was saying if I’m going to attack, but rather, if you’re going to attack me…
not the wisest choice of words from either of you, i’d have to truthfully say.
I have to admit I don’t always agree with the opinions/politics posted at jewschool and sometimes find some of the satirical merchandise on this site (and others) of questionable taste, I would not categorize you in any way as “self-hating.” I agree that in this context the term is definitely being used to dismiss those with an unpopular pov & I find that disgusting
bottom line mo is a ho ok, i mean what the hell does mobius mean any way, sounds really corny and stupid? If you got a problem what I said I dont give a shit, but mo got some balls by posting that shit up. And jason, grace or no grace pal, your more likely into will than grace. Let this be a message to any of you ass holes out there, dont start no shit wont be no shit, and moby took it a little to far
oh ya, and what you didnt see on the post, that sob, homobius switched it and alterd it up. what the hell does your aunt, her neck, and all her personal affects. news flash im jewish and i never heard of that before. my responce to homobius was, your mom, her hole, the little bitch you are, and all the personal affects.
mo-BI-us you will get heckled 50 shekel
self hating jews arent cool dude
.
.
.
suck on this homobius B=======D
if the shit pissed you off, good
hi my name is mobius and i love jewschool
and jewschool loves me
whats an lgf
mobius = lgf
lame gay fucker
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Additional comments:
Y’know, I use the term “self-hating Jew,” and I’m not a rightist. Centrist, leaning left on social issues and right on terror and Israel.
Any Jew in the ISM, for instance, is, in my opinion, a self-hating Jew. There is no excuse for protecting terrorists.
You shouldn’t assume only a certain segment thinks a certain way. I think Adam Shapiro is one of the most well-known self-hating Jews. And I’d tell him to his face, were I ever to have the displeasure of meeting him.
i don’t think any jew in ism is self-hating, especially if, for example, they’re motivated by the desire to make jews look less like ruthless killers and more like human beings.
mobius,
you are clearly conflicted. the ISM might be non violent but is supports banning israeli goods. do yo buy chinese goods? the chinese are responsible for more violations of human rights than israel and the plo put together.
this goes back to your thing about european jews being colonialists. whe are you going to stop worrying about fitting in with your lefty crowd and embrace your postive jewish ideals. you have blogged about your childhood incidents with anti-semitism.
realize that somehow you feel guilty for being jewish. zionism is good thing that people like you give a bad name.
self hating or not there is a psychological element.
Well, what does “self-hating Jew” mean in the first place? Maybe it’s meaningless. But what do people mean when they use it?
I’ve never been called nor called anyone a self-hating Jew. So I haven’t thought so much about it. But my understanding of the term: a Jew who internalizes and acts on stereotyped images of the Jew. Who sees other Jews in terms of this negative, stereotyped image, and is comfortable only with Jews to the extent that they act within — that is to say, against — said stereotype.
I guess that I see this in so-called one-issue Jews: folks who were born Jewish, who have had very little contact with Jews, who are specifically uninterested in identifying as Jews but, to the extent that they get identified as Jews anyway, gravitate increasingly towards one issue as a specific reflection of stereotypes about Jews that they’ve internalized.
Sometimes, the Holocaust. Other times, the Arab-Israeli conflict and, yes, the ISM. But when it is joining groups like ISM, they continue to believe and propagate one-track stereotyped imges of other Jews; to engage other Jews only through “criticizing” (condemning the existence of) Israel in mainstream media (ie never within the Jewish community); and so forth.
To state the obvious: this is obviously not true of Mobius, or of many Jews who are members of ISM or lots of other groups. On the other hand, i don’t think any jew in ism is self-hating, especially if, for example, they’re motivated by the desire to make jews look less like ruthless killers and more like human beings: I don’t necessarily agree. Maybe the motivation for joining a group like ISM is exactly the reflection of an internalized stereotype — one which a group like ISM is hardly likely to mitigate.
I’m a bit uncomfortable with this topic but, well, my two cents.
PS an example: I am spectacularly underwhelmed by the tactics of an Adam Shapiro. On the other hand, if someone like him were to actually spend time among Jews who don’t agree with them, and do their convincing and advocating and proselytizing in Jewish media and as a self-conscious part of the community, I’d be a whole lot more interested. Why? I don’t know exactly, but I think it’s part of this topic somehow.
8opus wrote: “On the other hand, if someone like him were to actually spend time among Jews who don’t agree with them, and do their convincing and advocating and proselytizing in Jewish media and as a self-conscious part of the community, I’d be a whole lot more interested.”
Maybe certain segments of the organized Jewish community aren’t really open to his message ?
Parents of Peace Activist Who Met With Arafat Leave NYC Home After Death Threats
progressive but proud:
do yo buy chinese goods? the chinese are responsible for more violations of human rights than israel and the plo put together.
no, i do not buy chinese goods. in fact, i used to be the ny state regional coordinator for students for a free tibet. i’ve protested outside the chinese embassy and held audience with the dalai lama. i’m very critical of the chinese government. read jakeneck and you’ll see that israel isn’t the only place i focus my attention.
this goes back to your thing about european jews being colonialists. whe are you going to stop worrying about fitting in with your lefty crowd and embrace your postive jewish ideals. you have blogged about your childhood incidents with anti-semitism.
buh? embrace my positive jewish ideals? son, i just spent the night with the local chabadniks. i found out today i’m a finalist for a fellowship to go to israel for a year. what are you talking about? don’t assume you know me because you read my blog posts.
i’m not trying to “fit in” with my lefty friends–i’m trying to do what i believe in my heart to be right and just. that is a jewish ideal.
realize that somehow you feel guilty for being jewish. zionism is good thing that people like you give a bad name.
i don’t feel guilty for being jewish. i feel guilty about zionism tho! not ahad ha-am or martin buber’s zionism–but certainly zev jabotinsky’s zionism. who do you think coined the phrase “from the river to the sea?”
self hating or not there is a psychological element.
totally. bogus. assessment.
Personally I think a self-hating Jew is someone who is actually anti-Semitic. I think I should define terminology. By anti-Semitic I mean: buys into the belief that Jews are intrinsically inferior to other types of people.
I really don’t think being extremely opposed to Jewish nationalism means someone is anti-semitic, or is evidence of “self-hatred” in the slightest.
I do think that most of the time “self-hating” is used in a political debate, it is used as a cheap ad hominem to try to discredit someone.
It’s like the famous question “So tell me sir, when did you stop beating your wife?”
homobius is a retard with nothing else better to do
Maybe certain segments of the organized Jewish community aren’t really open to his message ? Maybe certain segments of the organized Jewish community aren’t really open to his message ? Parents of Peace Activist Who Met With Arafat Leave NYC Home After Death Threats You’re not seriously suggesting that Jews can’t both advocate ending the occupation among Jews and engage with the Jewish community, are you? Cause, uh, that’s stupid.
By anti-Semitic I mean: buys into the belief that Jews are intrinsically inferior to other types of people. Come now — racism’s never been that simple; it’s about believing that Jews (or Asians, or …) are intrinsically anything.
I think, to the extent the term means anything, it’s about seeing Jews through those stereotypes, and engaging with them as stereotypes rather than people. Are there people who were born Jewish and do this? No doubt — but the term seems to be usually batted around pretty stupidly.
Which is why I think Jewschool is an excellent project, incidentally: it’s a tool for engaging debate within the Jewish community and among (but, duh, not just among) Jews.
Which is something that doesn’t seem to quite exist enough imho; if you think Jews are unique in getting their backs up when an article in the mainstream press shits on Israel just try writing an article in the same terms in any mainstream media about, well, just any other country. Egypt. Lebanon. Greece. Whatever. Hell, ninety years later after the attempted Armenian genocide, try just acknowledging it in any newspaper. It’s not cool, but it does underline the importance of pluralist Jewish media.
Pay no mind to that SilverStunna behind the curtain. I know him personally, and he is an adult in his mid-20s who “works” for his dad (picks up the mail at the post office once a day) and receives large weekly salary for his trouble. He wouldn’t know self-hating from self-inflating and the question he should be asking himself is if Grandpa and Dad didn’t have their own businesses, where in the world would he get a job?