How Low Can You Get?

WTF? Some settlers decided to wear an orange star as a protest against the disengagement:

The settlers new orange-badge campaign is aimed at shocking public opinion and crying out “against the uprooting of Jews from their homes.” During the Holocaust, Jews were forced to wear a yellow Star of David.

I still can’t figure out how many people are involved in this, lets hope not too many.

36 thoughts on “How Low Can You Get?

  1. I agree with Oofnik. Any PR person knows you must take a stand visavis your mission/purpose and the means that you communicate that message. Personally, I’ve always interpreted the Settlers message to be: “We’re the true pioneers of Israel. Strong, adventurous, tough…” I’m not buying the victim shtick, and I’m put off by the Holocaust comparisson.
    My prediction…this will backfire.

  2. if others can identify us as juden, jews, kykes, heebs, why can’t we self identify?
    i think it’s a natural evolution of this whole fierce identity meme that’s been circulating all year. it goes on with every ehtnic group. it’s a cycle.
    i even thought of making a felt star pin at one point this year, but decided i’d be so blackballed by the entire jewish world that the secular press’s kudos wouldn’t be worth it.

  3. Actually, there are making a very cogent point.
    If non-Jews were to forcibly evict Jews from their homes, and destroy them, we’d be up in arms.
    Since it’s Jews doing it to others Jews, it’s perfectly OK and nobody winks.
    These residents are attempting to make the point that forcing Jews out of their homes, in the name of making an area official Judenrein (as per the PA’s official policy on Jewish residents in their “state”), has sinister implications.

  4. all it comes down to is, is it worth dying and paying for? Apparently the settlements in the gaza aint according to those who have been democratically elected to rule the country. the settlers in gaza know that they cant come up with a rational reason for staying in gaza that the majority of israelis will buy. So they are instead trying to play on irrational emotions as a last ditch effort before they will inevitably be forcefully removed. It would serve their cause much more if they could devise a logical and relevant rationale for their presence in the strip. (ie security etc.)

  5. “It would serve their cause much more if they could devise a logical and relevant rationale for their presence in the strip. (ie security etc.)”
    Because the logic of…It’s our land, and if we give it to the arabs it will be detremental in the long run…seems to fall on deaf ears. Give me one good reason why Israel needs to give up any land?
    We should give them land attached to Egypt? Yeah thats would be REAL smart.

  6. How appropriate the nazis threws us out of our homes and made us wear yellow stars now sharon is doing the same so hey wear orange one go propagate your liberal jewishness somwhere else
    cause Oh my a jew taking a stand that does not go along with public opinion

  7. How low can YOU get?
    How dare the settlers touch the holy of holies of what keeps the American exile – Jew going – the insistance the the Holocaust it to be “remembered” not avoided in the future.
    You would love to keep it locked away in your museums, taking it out once a year to show the kids, if they are interested – all the while pointing at it and shrieking hysterically when anyone intimates that the evil that raised its ugly head during the Shoah may not have been a once – in – eternity kind of thing.
    The Holocaust didn’t just happen all at once – it was a process; like so many other rivers of Jewish blood, it began with a trickle and plenty of excuses. In Israel today, the trickle has already become a stream yet you attempt to silence those who stand on the front lines by hysterical decrying the nature of their non-violent protest tactics. The only chapter in the history of American Jewry that can be more sickeningly shameful than its silence during the Holocaust is when Jews like you tell us to be silent as the rivers of blood flow once again today and as Jews once again consider turning other Jews over to those who carry on the “slaughter the Jews” frenzy so reminiscent of something my grandparents used to hear from Polish and German mobs before they were herded into trains to Auschwitz.
    Oops, I did it, didn’t I. I drew a comparison. Would it help if my grandmother, an Auschwitz survivor, agreed with me? You know, I was born and raised in the USA and passed through all of the American Jewish Holocaust memorial programming, museums, commemorations and I could have sworn the mantra recited throughout all of those experiences was to “remember history, lest we be condemned to repeat it.” What did that mean? What were you trying to say? That we should memorize all the details and watch all the testimonials so that the Germans wouldn’t build gas chambers again and incinerate us in them? Is anything short of that out of bounds for comparison lest we lend fodder to the Holocaust-deniers? Get real. We learned your lessons – and more than that, we learned from our grandparents – many of whom are still alive to say, together with us: Wake up! It is happening again!
    The most dangerous of all Holocaust-denial is that which refuses to admit that but for the IDF, it would happen again tomorrow.
    The ‘pragmatism’ that leads Jews today to be willing to forcibly expel other Jews from their homes in the hope that “maybe” things will get better, “at least for a little while” is the very same ‘pragmatism’ that enabled more than a million Hungarian Jews to be put on trains to Auschwitz with most never seeing a Nazi. The community leaders were shocked and appalled when “crazies” would spread word of ovens and people burnt to ashes. They knew things were a bit rocky with the Nazis running things, but figured cooperating was the best strategy. “We will just help them relocate the Jews, which is what they say they want – and things will get better,” they said. It was not. That is one of the lessons of the Holocaust that we are not taught at any of your million dollar museums.
    We have a future to build and many of us have been building it. While your children and grandchildren pursue consumerism, marry tolerant non-racist gentiles (presumably attending holocaust memorials annually and bringing their kids to the Museum whenever they are in D.C.), my generation is planting themselves firmly in the Land of Israel. We are building a civilization based on the document our people received at Sinai – a moral society to be a great beacon of light unto the nations. We build in the face of bullets, bombs and incitement from the very nations that fostered the Shoah only to now be threatened with expulsion from our homes, the destruction of our life’s work, the digging up of our murdered relatives from their final resting places, the demolition of our synagogues and study halls and the forced transfer of our families.
    You mean to tell me that doesn’t remind you of the Holocaust at all? Oh, is it because they might get some money in return for their shattered lives? Because they aren’t being sent directly to the gas chambers but rather just packed into what one “moderate” statesman once termed “Auschwitz borders”?
    And forget about us for a second – you are for the expulsion of these people from their homes and the destruction of their property based on the fact that they are Jewish? You look forward to a sparkling new Jew-free state of Palestine alongside Israel? You are for pursuing 80 – year-old who guarded concentration camps to the death, but giving murderous Islamic terrorists and a people that supports them a chance to “reform”?
    No Jew in my generation will one day say “I was just following orders,” and no self-appointed Jewish pundit will be able to say, “I didn’t know.” Not if I can help it.

  8. I wonder where all the comparisants to the jewish holocaust were when the IDF was (and still is) demolition houses of palestinians who have no chance to actually get a permit. tens of thousands of people were thrown into the streets in this method, by the IDF.
    wait, there WERE comparisants to the holocaust. but they were made but radical lefties who were called “anti-semitic” for even THINKING of calling such acts nazi-like. who are the people who calls them antisemites? the same people who are now doing these same comparisants.

  9. Asaf,
    Though I agree with you on this issue re: the WTF comment, I’m curious how you would’ve handled the after effects of the 6 Day War?

  10. dear prodly and company,
    the gaza strip seemingly has no strategic value that i know of. therefore a jewish presence there has no pragmatic significance. Also, withdrawal is not being done as a favor towards palestinians, it is a pragmatic move because the sand is NOT worth the blood and treasure necessary to keep the settlements there!! they are not doing it because they love terrorists or hate settlers, it is done because the place is not worth fighting for anymore. it is being done because experts, not religious fanatics or blind idealists have concluded that the interests of the state of israel and its inhabitants are better served by leaving the strip.
    the argument that gaza is eretz yisrael (a small part of it) is a nice one, but sand filled with arabs has to be weighed against the blood of jews. each life is world, is the gaza worth a world?

  11. “Though I agree with you on this issue re: the WTF comment, I’m curious how you would’ve handled the after effects of the 6 Day War?”
    I would have probably NOT settled the territories and use them as a ÷ìó îé÷åç.

  12. Prodly: “Because the logic of…It’s our land, and if we give it to the arabs it will be detremental in the long run…seems to fall on deaf ears. Give me one good reason why Israel needs to give up any land?”
    There was never any annexation of Gaza or most of the West Bank, so nothing is given up. Nothing, that is, except an excuse to waste lives and resources for no good reason at all.

  13. Ezra-
    You’ve been in Israel for what, three years now? Four? Honestly, how many of you community- how many in the areas to be evacuated have been there for a decade?
    “We build in the face of bullets, bombs and incitement from the very nations that fostered the Shoah only to now be threatened with expulsion from our homes, the destruction of our life’s work, the digging up of our murdered relatives from their final resting places, the demolition of our synagogues and study halls and the forced transfer of our families.”
    The Jewish communities ravaged by the Holocaust did not “build in the face of bullets.” Many were secure, assimilated, and/or had hundreds of years of history in the community. They were not “cruising for a bruising.” They were not fundamentalist warriors on a mission from hashem to secure a birthright at the exclusion of all others.
    You’re hurting the aliyah cause more than helping it.
    Like Sarah I too have considered the gold star as a symbol of pride- as our pink triangle. But this use mingles our people’s greatest modern tragedy and greatest contemporary shame.
    You know what’s worse than adopting and cheapening the star in this way? Slapping in on your kids.

  14. the gaza strip seemingly has no strategic value that i know of
    elder punk of zion,
    leave the defense startegy to the army. The army originally came out against leaving the strip, but since has magically changed its mind to suit the political leadership. In any case, throughout the history of Israel, Palestine, Canaan, whatever, the gaza strip area has been used to invade from the south. In 1948, many, many Jews died to protect the town of Kfar Darom from the invading Egyptians. Eventually, the Jews had to pull back.
    You claim that experts have concluded that the interests of the state of israel and its inhabitants are better served by leaving the strip. While experts have really come out strongly against withdrawing at all, or at least at this time, under fire and unilateraly. Politicians have concluded, not experts.
    BTW, your ‘sand not worth defending’ claim is quite pathetic disregard for Israel’s existance. This claim is being used more and more, but not only for Gaza, rather all LAND. More and more parents don’t want their sons to get drafted because ‘no piece of land is worth dying for’. Sad, after 2000years, so many Jews have fought to bring us back to Israel and people like you come along and say that a few thousand acres here and there aren’t important.
    A synagogue was bombed this week, but it was in Gush Katif, so who cares, right?

  15. Racheli,
    I’m sorry that your image of a jew is the enlightened, assimilated one. I used to be a Canadian Jew and thought the same thing. Slowly but surely, I understood that this enlightened and assimilated Jew always disappears, but the religious and ultra-orthodox always stay around (to the embarrassment of the cool enlightened heebs).
    Kfar Darom was a Jewish settlement until 1948 and there’s also and ancient synagogue in Gaza city that no one has seen for the past four years. The resettlement started about 30 years ago, and thank goodness has never stopped.

  16. Thank you, Josh, for your invalidation.
    Always disappears? Where? Look at the Jewish renaissance in the former Soviet Union or talk to my Marrano friend.
    Enlightened and assimilated are not necessarily the same thing. And there are many degrees of assimilated. One can be both religious and assimilated.
    I know this is hard to accept for those who see the world as “us and them”, “either-or”, “black and white.”
    My image of a Jew is not limited, it’s inclusive. The all or nothing attitude serves only to keep Jews who aren’t “all” from feeling like they’re one of the Tribe.

  17. If so many of the settlers didn’t have absolutely no problem with expropriating land from Palestinians — oh, excuse me, “Arabs” — their indignation about being removed from internationally disputed land would carry more moral weight.

  18. josh
    correct, if u have a viable state where you are first class citizens, there is no reason for kids to go and die for sand. todays israelis are not the same as the jews of pre-48. the jews of 48 had their backs to the wall. they had to fight for every peice of land because they had none. todays israelis have a state, believe it or not, and have no reason to want to fight over the gaza when they could be partying in tel-aviv.
    also, just because the israelis have stopped settling that piece of land does not mean they cannot send the army in to do some terrorist wacking. its not like theres going to be any agreement, thats why its unilateral. by withdrawing, a sovereign palestinian state isnt going to be created. the only thing is that israeli kids wont have to give their lives for the fanaticism of the settlers.
    can you please elaborate on your expert opinion?
    im sure you can find a shul or two in baghdad if you look hard enough, does that mean that jews should settle it? how do you define what is eretz yisrael? according to the atlas of arab-israeli conflict by martin gilbert, shlomo’s empire encompassed todays aman jordan. does that make aman part of eretz yisrael? do you believe that the settlers have a right to that too?

  19. My image of a Jew is not limited, it’s inclusive. except for fundamentalist warriors. Racheli, please correct me if I misunderstand you.
    I think calling Tali Hatuel and her four daughters being killed in a ‘glorious battle’ fundamentalist warriors quite disturbing. You attempt to demonize these 8000 settlers and the tens of thousands of their immediate supporters, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of admirers.
    we already know that once Israel leaves territory (Lebanon and Jenin, Shechem, Ramallah, Bethlehem, etc… dozens of times) it needs a damn good excuse to go back in and get a passive US ‘we understand Israel’s right to defend its citizens’ – usually takes a major terrorist attack that frankly, I don’t want to see again.
    Eretz Yisrael stretches far out to the North and the west. Jewish American soldiers in Iraq during a shmita year haev to be very careful. We already have the ‘territories’ now, and eventually we will get the rest as well (will actually given to us) but I do not support an all out war to conquer now, the same way I don’t think the time is right to retake the temple mount right now, just demand equal rights.

  20. josh
    lol – the wakf smucks inc. should be kicked out of any sites with jewish significance especially if they oversee the destruction of jewish archaeological relics. Jews do rule the country and there is no reason for them to cede control of site like the temple mount.
    in the case of lebanon, it was officially speaking a sovereign country, so we couldnt really reenter unless we had sufficient reason (hezzbullah rockets dont count). in the cases of “Jenin, Shechem, Ramallah, Bethlehem, etc”, we go in and out as we please, settlements have nothing to do with those cases. i dont see how they prevent attacks, theyre only a burden on the army to protect. unilateral withdrawal allows us to return when we want, because there is no official agreement involved. ahh the beauty of unilateralism.
    plus the settlers are cooked, no one seems to like their oranges star shtick regardless of the claims to gaza.
    u are taking the positioin that neturei karta uses, although i doubt u sympathize with them. we were supposed to be “given” all of eretz yisrael. we “sinned” because we took it instead of having G-d give it to us. you seem to think that we can take post-67 israel, but not moshiach era eretz yisrael. lol, just wondering how u view this seeming contradiction.
    shabbat shalom to all

  21. beauty of unilateralism
    the beauty of it is that no one around the world accepts it as final, just a light entre for more. Our FM Shalom asked the French if they’d leave us alone for a few years after we do this unilateral crap, they didn’t wink even though he backed down to few months, or weeks of reducing the pressure on Israel.
    If you think that the world will accept anything less than entire withdrawal, then you are mistaken. The ‘Palestinians’ have their ‘plan of stages’ that was never denounced. Abu Mazen was the seconf in command to Arafat in the PLO. The PLO was never disbanded AFAIK. If ‘we’ trust the Palestinians so much after we retreat, than we should expect them to respect Jews rights to buy land and live their too now.
    I don’t accept the position of neturei karta at all. They believe in waiting for Messiah to come and straighten things out even though most of the research I’ve read says that ‘we’ have to prepare ourselves in order to welcome him, not be passive, and he will finish off the job for us. Now the seculars of the late 1800s – early 1900s got our Jewish foot in the door, and this is a very historic occurence (ingathering of exiles) that was prophesized to occur just before the Messiah appears. Neturie karta thinks that the secular state is blasphemous, but I’ll only go as far as saying that Israeli democracy is an artificial adoption of a gentile system that is doomed to be end. Do not get me wrong, while I do see a ‘medinat halacha’ in the distant future, I DO NOT advocate this in the short – term since most of Israel is not ready yet and if this ‘medinat halacha’ is going to work, it will not be like force in Iran/Afghanistan, but rather because everyone simply wants it.
    Neturei Karta, who are only an over-exagerated couple of families, thinks Israel is a sin, while I think that Israel one miracle after another. God already gave us ‘Israel’ THREE TIMES in 48, 67, and 73 (which always takes a back seat to 67 even though 73 was the closet to disaster of them all). I like to compare our doubt today of returning to the euphrates or the ‘East Bank’ to the total lack of belief in May 67 that we’d be in Jm, Hebron, Bethlehem and the rest. It will come because it’s our destiny.

  22. josh
    im convinced that withdrawal is not being done to satisfy the world community. if this would be a prelude towards full concession of the west bank i would be against it (“return” of west bank). frankly. i am convinced that the israeli public is tired of fighting and dying in gaza. if need be they can just return. I would have to agree with you on the point of being able to buy land in gaza. however how easy is it in israel or the “territories” for arabs to buy land? israel doesnt seem to be so easy going about letting its arab population buy land
    destiny is up to G-d, it would be foolish to count on that in the form of justifying rash physical actions. the only action that must be taken must be based on prudence, G-d must be left out of this decision making process, and must only be thanked for its success. afterall, the first zionists were tired of waiting for G-d so they took matters into their own hands.
    48 was the closest to disaster, had the jordanian legion decided to cut israel off at the middle of the country they could have easily done so. plus in 48, 1 percent of israels population was killed, in 73, only a tenth of 1 percent were killed.
    medinat halacha could never and should never be imposed by man! it would easily lead to a civil war. besides whose version of halacha would u follow? ultra orthodoxy? they dont even allow use of the internet officially, we couldnt have this conversation. Would you force woman to cover their hair? would people be stoned for violating shabbos? that notion is in no way viable unless G-D himself imposed it through a direct intermediary namely eliyahou.

  23. You are mistaken about a few things.
    Arabs can buy land anywhere in Israel (especially in Yesha). The supreme court has already decided that Jewish-only towns are illegal, and Arabs can move in (though the other way around is taken for granted. A jew cannot be expected to buy land in Taibe, or Um-el-fahm – that’s a provocation :-/
    Acco is having a serious problem in that Arabs are overunning the city, not just moving in a several families. Carmiel is on the way (the current JNF case).
    Don’t let numbers fool you in deciding wars. In 1948, only 1% were killed. In 1973, it is recorded that Syria was in the position to overrun beaten Israeli positions in the Golan and keep going – Israel didn’t have anything to stop them. On the Egyptian border, tank after tank went up in fire and smoke – only with a miracle did the IDF hang on at that front.
    destiny is up to G-d definitely, but how we get there is in our hands. Do we sit around and keep whining, or do we do something to progress to the point where we are deserving? What can we do now? Unity of Jews, love between Jews, some praying will help too, and real belief in G-d, not ‘doing what feels good’ as the current Diet Coke slogan goes.
    Think out of the box; the ultra-orthodox put up many ‘walls around the torah’. When it comes time for ‘medinat halacha’ to come around, there will still be the anxiety of a minority of ‘Hellinists’, but virtually all of us will ‘see the light’ and want it.

  24. sorry, forgot about this:
    if this would be a prelude towards full concession of the west bank i would be against it (“return” of west bank).
    You’ve been out of the loop lately:
    read any of following articles/op-eds for starters:
    Caroline Glick: Bigotry’s Harvest
    Debka-net-weekly; Coming Cataclysm (read with a grain of salt, heavy on analysis)
    It is an open secret that this ‘Gaza first’ plan is only the beginning. Don’t you realize? Once you (we/Jews) agree that any part of Yesha is not kosher/not wanted, there is no justification to keep ANY part of it. Elliot Abrams, top NSC MidEast adviser and future US ambassodor to Israel “shocked a closed meeting of American Jewish leaders in Washington on November 30 when he said that the Jewish settlements outside the barrier will have to dismantled in the end.” The Americans have never budged from this policy. NEVER.
    I can send you a list of alternative news sites that might interest you.

  25. I am against this campaign but not for the reasons that have been mentioned, rather it potrays Jewish weakness in the face of a decree issued by an evil dictator. More than that it reminds me of Jews going like sheep to the slaughter.
    Eliyahu Levine

  26. like sheep to the slaughter?
    How is actively resisting the disengagement project on all fronts considered going like sheep to the slaughter? I am assuming you ignored the original meaning of this phrase and brought it only because of its original context – jews being slaughtered by the nazis in the Holocaust.
    otherwise your comment makes no sense. true?

  27. eliyahu
    who is this dictator that u refering too??
    debka is a load of nonsense – they claimed saddam hussein was in belarus. i frankly dont believe anything on tht site.
    though i would like u to list a few alternative news sources.
    in 48 the jordanians couldve easily cut the yishuv in half. there was no US to fund israel or to resupply it like in 73. had the jordanian legion wanted to, it couldve destroted the yishuv. thought this is way off track out intial discussion.
    look, all i am trying to say is leave G-d out of military policy discussions. do what is prudent from a politico-military perspective. ariel sharon is one of the greatest israeli generals ever. he saw more boys die is a day than yourself. and if he says that the gaza is not no longer worth dying for, i can believe him. and wearing orange stars to equate this with the holocaust is disgusting.

  28. Josh-
    You do misunderstand me. Why wouldn’t I consider Jewish fundamentalist warriors to be Jews? Dude, a Jew is a Jew. David Berkowitz/Son of Sam killed a sh*tload of people and became a Christian televangelist, but he’s still a Jew in my book (although I wouldn’t publicize that- a shonda for the goyim).

  29. Elder,
    I mentioned to take Debka with a grain of salt. The scary thing is if even a mere 10% of what they say is true. Makes you want to buy gold coins to sew into your clothes for the end of days… Besides, they did have a week’s warning before the double attack in Kenya on Israelis in the Paradise Hotel and the Arkia airplane. Scary.
    Other sources you might want to check out:
    http://www.imra.org.il – the news that usually doesn’t get printed.
    http://www.weaponsurvey.com – Palestinian weapon production
    http://www.israelbehindthenews.com – interesting investigations
    http://www.israelinsider.com – Zionist op-eds from right-centre-left
    http://www.newsroom.co.il – in hebrew, but gives practically minute by minute report of virtually every molotov cocktail, mortar, and RPG rocket fired on Jews/Israelis

  30. And when, pray tell, was Gaza part of “Eretz Yisrael”? During the First Temple period, it was the land of the Philistines. During the Second Temple period, it was largely occupied by non-Jews. Why should I be nostalgic for that coast of sand dunes?

  31. josh
    According to martin gibert’s atlas of the israeli-arab conflict, gaza was part of shlomo’s kingdom. although so was Amman, Jordan and a lot of other land that is not in political dispute.

  32. josh
    i apologize for being unclear about israeli history. what i am saying is that in 1948, the israelis were not nearly what they were in 73. The arab legion, run by the jordanians (trained by the british and led by a british general john glubb)and the only serious arab military force (in 1948) couldve have easily split israel in half (in 1948). for some strange reason they chose not to. had they decided to cut right through the “auschwitz lines”, they could have destroyed the state. did i mention that in 1948 the israelis had much less ammunition than in 1973. In 1973, the israelis were greatly imperiled and wouldve run out of ammunition had the united states not resupplyed them. in the 1948, the relationship between the US and israel was not nearly what it is today.
    it should be apparent that my blog is supposed to be comical, and has nothing to do with our actual discussion.
    just because little green men ride aligator drawn sleighs to little childrens houses for christmas is irrelevant to israeli history. or so i would imagine.

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